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  • FIRST POST
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 18th Dec 17, 1:51 PM
    • 106Posts
    • 54Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    PCN - parking in my own space
    • #1
    • 18th Dec 17, 1:51 PM
    PCN - parking in my own space 18th Dec 17 at 1:51 PM
    Hey guys.


    Cut a long story slightly short. I own my property in a small gated apartment development. The property mamagement director decided to implement a parking company ( CPM uk car park management ) last August because he was being petty and bitter that the residents were forming an association and complaining about the management of the complex + residents were using 2nd cars to park in visitors bays.



    Anyway, we all received our own permits without any justification, apart from a rubbish forceful email stating we were now having to dispaly these permits. I recieved one which is for my own parking space. Now, I had no choice at this moment in time but to abide by the new "rules" and put my permit on my dashboard and on this particular occasion a few months down the line, I shut my door and the wind must of blew the permit off.



    I received a PCN for parking in my own bloody space as my permit wasn't on the dashboard. Anyway I sent an appeal letter basically stating this is my own space and providing them with a copy of my permit , plus I explained the reasoning why my permit fell off. I also put in my letter, if this is rejected can they provide me with a popla code.




    I just received a letter back today rejecting my appeal explaining they acknowledge my proof of permit but because I didn't display the permit properly, I need to pay the fine. They obviously have the photo evidence on the letter to. Obviously no way in a million years am I paying these !!!!s any sort of money to park in my own private parking space. I also appealed via IAS, as i felt that i can atleast justify in court if need be, that i went down every avenue to try and overturn this charge. What do I do now?


    I had a quick look at the newbies thread which looks very helpful but there is a lot of detail on it so I'm not sure if my particular case is relevant and if I can get a template from someone so I can write back to these


    Thank you
    Last edited by nasescoba1985; 09-02-2018 at 8:52 AM. Reason: Add more info
Page 9
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 5th Feb 18, 6:52 PM
    • 36,562 Posts
    • 82,820 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Ok Keith, you think they will progress it to court though ? What!!!8217;s the likelihood of these parking companies making a claim. ?
    Originally posted by nasescoba1985
    You should be able to find that information on the BMPA motoring charity website.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Feb 18, 6:55 PM
    • 6,617 Posts
    • 5,803 Thanks
    KeithP
    This is the first sentence in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky/pinned thread:
    Firstly, if you have no claim yet, you may wish to check how likely it is that 'your' PPC might try a small claim. You can check for yourself by Googling 'BMPA Insight' and the name of any parking firm...court numbers and advice tailored to each company.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Feb 18, 6:47 AM
    • 9,029 Posts
    • 8,701 Thanks
    The Deep
    Ok Keith, you think they will progress it to court though ? What!!!8217;s the likelihood of these parking companies making a claim. ?
    Originally posted by nasescoba1985
    Very high

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/UK_Car_Park_Management.html

    if it gets to court, I see no reason why you should not win, as long as you behave yourself. Do not try to teach the judge the law, do not let your sense of injustice get the better if you, do not call him mate.

    If you are unfamiliar with the SCC, it is very informal, not a bit like shouty Queen Rinder, no robes, no flags, no dock, just people sitting round a table, no big eal at all.
    .
    Last edited by The Deep; 06-02-2018 at 7:55 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 6th Feb 18, 9:42 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    @ the deep, ok so its almost like a glorified meeting in a way? I feel I have enough evidence to back up my argument and I have printed out cases that pretty much mirror mine where the defendant won the case on the lease terms alone.


    Obviously I have admitted I was the driver and have admitted to displaying a permit prior to the charge, so I!!!8217;m hoping this doesn!!!8217;t go against me. I!!!8217;ll just use the whole I was forced into this appointment and had no choice but to display the permit.


    My lease gives me rights as owner to use my allocated space and nothing in my lease says the management company can alter the lease or change any thing to the common parts , I.E implementing a parking company. I see no reason why they should get me stumped on the lease. I have a property information form which is signed by the management company and ticked a box to say that the parking has no restrictions and doesn!!!8217;t have permits. This also should go in my favour. I don!!!8217;t want to feel to over confident, but surely with my evidence I can!!!8217;t lose this ?
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 6th Feb 18, 9:47 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    Also why is it so !!!8220;high!!!8221; it going to court and them making a claim , when that website says 4.4 mil parking tickets were issued in 2017, but only 40,000 went to court. This is extremely low, so surely my case is extremely unlikely to go to court
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Feb 18, 10:47 AM
    • 9,029 Posts
    • 8,701 Thanks
    The Deep
    ... so surely my case is extremely unlikely to go to court


    Do you actually bother to read our advice. They have already taken 206 people to court this year, as opposed to 312 for the whole of 2017.

    Did you not read post number 163?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 6th Feb 18, 11:24 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    OK, why is that then ? Are they more confident they can win these court battles now ? It just seems a bit odd that a sharp increase of claims and court battles have been made this year.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 6th Feb 18, 11:29 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,295 Thanks
    pappa golf
    no the end is coming , all the parking cos knew about the parlimentary debate and what is GOING to happen soon

    BW and DRP are on overtime sending out claims

    because they will soon be shut down

    although that mob have had 200 cases , how many have they won?
    Save a Rachael

    buy a share in crapita
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 6th Feb 18, 11:36 AM
    • 36,562 Posts
    • 82,820 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Some companies never, or hardly ever do court. Presumably their business model is such that they make an obscene profit without needing to abuse the court system.
    Some companies base their business model on frightening people with court, and some make more money through the courts than other methods.

    Some use robo-claims solicitors who just churn out more and more claims. It may be that they have found a system that works and have just upped the speed of the production line.

    I don't think there is any particular reason other than momentum has been gained by the scammers, and having found a way to make money, they try to find ways of increasing their nasty business.
    Perhaps they have found a car park or area that is more productive than others, or have hit on an efficient method of squeezing more ill gotten gains from the motoring public.
    We are now seeing claims going back five and six years, some even before the POFA was introduced.

    It's all a scam and I don't really think there is any statistical method of calculating the increase in court claims. The people who do this are nasty, and are getting nastier.
    After the second reading of the parking bill I suspect we will see a feeding frenzy of PCNs and court cases until the brakes are eventually applied. Personally I can't see the scam ever coming to a complete stop unless access to the DVLA database is denied to all PPCs.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 6th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    Ok guys thanks. Obviously seeing that sharp increase does worry me a bit, but how many have they actually won? ( as pappa pointed out ) ... I will continue with my stance and gather my evidence together so I!!!8217;m prepared
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 6th Feb 18, 12:08 PM
    • 6,617 Posts
    • 5,803 Thanks
    KeithP
    To avoid posting all that gobbledygook please turn off Apple's Smart Punctuation on you iphone/ipad.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Feb 18, 1:24 PM
    • 56,149 Posts
    • 69,811 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ok guys thanks. Obviously seeing that sharp increase does worry me a bit, but how many have they actually won? (as pappa pointed out ) ... I will continue with my stance and gather my evidence together so I'm prepared
    Originally posted by nasescoba1985
    Our win rate in 2017 was 99% success, only TWO lost out of hundreds fully coached here. Can't get a better chance of winning and no big deal if lost.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 6th Feb 18, 6:29 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    @ coupon , school me then help me beat these scam artists.

    @ Keith, I don!!!8217;t actually know how to turn off smart punctuation but I!!!8217;ll try
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 8th Feb 18, 8:12 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    HEY guys. Sorry I forgot to mention. On the formal demand letter UK CPM recently sent me, it now says as the 30 days are up, I now owe them 100.


    Not that im paying then anything, but according to IAS, the amount doesn't go up if you pay it within the 14 days of losing your IAS appeal. So in other words, you only pay the original 60. This is how incompetent they are, that they don't even realise I went through IAS and have just sent a generic formal demand letter. Worth using this to beat them over a stick with if it goes to court ?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Feb 18, 8:42 AM
    • 17,283 Posts
    • 27,228 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Worth using this to beat them over a stick with if it goes to court ?
    Its no showstopper.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 8th Feb 18, 9:45 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    Fair enough. Anything I can use to show these up I will though.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 8th Feb 18, 9:51 AM
    • 2,990 Posts
    • 3,853 Thanks
    waamo
    The courts are getting wise to the antics of these clowns. Your lease trumps everything. There have been multiple cases on here where the judge has read the lease an asked where the clause is about showing a permit.

    At that point there is shuffling of papers and staring at shoes.
    This space for hire.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 8th Feb 18, 11:27 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    Exactly Waamo. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing in my lease that has any hidden clauses that might mess me up. There is nothing in there that gives the property management a right to change the parking, I.E implement and parking company. My lease has plenty of snippets which give me the right to park in my allocated space and no permit is mentioned. I also have a "property information form" which was signed by the management companfy in 2015 and one of the questions asked wether the car park was in a controlled parking zone or a local authority scheme, in which the property manager ticked NO!! I'm pretty certain, with these bits of evidence , I will smash these to pieces in court.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 9th Feb 18, 4:06 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    Guys, following on from the advice, i have sent an email with detailed description to my local MP, also quoting the recent parlimant debate in regards to the parking scammers.


    Just a quick few questions.


    When it comes to sending over the defence and evidence to the court, is this all photo copies? So basically a photo copy of lease, parking letters etc? Or do you send the originals? ( Obviously i wouldn't expect to send my original lease) ..




    Also, in my defence is it worth talking about the lack of visibility of the UK CPM signs when driving in through the entrance and exiting. The reason i mention this is because when entering the car park and doing a left into my space, i don't actually have a clear view of any of the UK CPM signs as it's on the right hand side to the back of the visitors bays. Would it be good to mention this? Or do you think the primacy of contract defence is the only way to go?


    I just want to be best prepared so any advice would be great
    • waamo
    • By waamo 9th Feb 18, 4:10 PM
    • 2,990 Posts
    • 3,853 Thanks
    waamo
    Signage is always a good point and again is often picked up on by judges. They should be clear and prominent. If they aren't no contract can be formed.
    This space for hire.
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