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  • FIRST POST
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 18th Dec 17, 1:51 PM
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    nasescoba1985
    PCN - parking in my own space
    • #1
    • 18th Dec 17, 1:51 PM
    PCN - parking in my own space 18th Dec 17 at 1:51 PM
    Hey guys.


    Cut a long story slightly short. I own my property in a small gated apartment development. The property mamagement director decided to implement a parking company ( CPM uk car park management ) last August because he was being petty and bitter that the residents were forming an association and complaining about the management of the complex + residents were using 2nd cars to park in visitors bays.



    Anyway, we all received our own permits without any justification, apart from a rubbish forceful email stating we were now having to dispaly these permits. I recieved one which is for my own parking space. Now, I had no choice at this moment in time but to abide by the new "rules" and put my permit on my dashboard and on this particular occasion a few months down the line, I shut my door and the wind must of blew the permit off.



    I received a PCN for parking in my own bloody space as my permit wasn't on the dashboard. Anyway I sent an appeal letter basically stating this is my own space and providing them with a copy of my permit , plus I explained the reasoning why my permit fell off. I also put in my letter, if this is rejected can they provide me with a popla code.




    I just received a letter back today rejecting my appeal explaining they acknowledge my proof of permit but because I didn't display the permit properly, I need to pay the fine. They obviously have the photo evidence on the letter to. Obviously no way in a million years am I paying these !!!!s any sort of money to park in my own private parking space. I also appealed via IAS, as i felt that i can atleast justify in court if need be, that i went down every avenue to try and overturn this charge. What do I do now?


    I had a quick look at the newbies thread which looks very helpful but there is a lot of detail on it so I'm not sure if my particular case is relevant and if I can get a template from someone so I can write back to these


    Thank you
    Last edited by nasescoba1985; 09-02-2018 at 8:52 AM. Reason: Add more info
Page 4
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Jan 18, 12:21 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    My lease clearly states I am allocated my own bay.
    The word "allocated" is an indication you are not the owner of the space. It has to be owned as shown in your lease in the same way as your flat is owned and shown in your lease. You don't have allocated bedrooms for example.

    If you are not the owner you are bound by the rules and regulations (as amended) by the MA who are representatives of the owners. You need to check your lease to see if they can retrospectively change the terms (and most can)

    Property law is complex and it all turns on the wording of the lease and whether "your space" is actually owned outright or simply loaned to you by the Freeholder on an exclusive basis as long as you follow the rules.

    When this goes to court, that is exactly what the judge will be looking for.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 10th Jan 18, 12:23 PM
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    Fruitcake
    By displaying a permit you could be seen as accepting the permit scheme. Assuming your lease/AST makes no mention of parking permits, or that a third party (PPC) can charge you for not displaying said permit, you can tell the MA and PPC that you were only displaying it as a curtesy to help the scammers, even though there is no such requirement to do so in your lease/AST.
    If this is the case, I would suggest you now tell them that you will no longer display a permit as they have abused your curtesy, and your rights to peaceful enjoyment. You should also tell the scammers and the MA that you withdraw any and all implied right of access to your demised parking space. Further issuing of tickets to any vehicle in your own space will be considered as trespass, and harassment.

    However, as Username has said, you need to bottom out the issue of what your lease says about the parking space and permit schemes.

    This is what judges have said previously about own space tickets.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 10-01-2018 at 12:27 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 12:25 PM
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    nasescoba1985
    Well if own and have paid for my property then the parking space comes with that. The parking management company canít just come in and take this space off me can they ? I will double check my lease but as this is my own allocated space , the parking company has no right to ticket me.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 10th Jan 18, 12:27 PM
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    pappa golf
    and indeed the scammers have contacted the DVLA for a name and address for the keeper of the vehicle, they now KNOW the KEEPER lives at the address,

    therefore the VRN should now be on a whitelist , as they have official conformation from the DVLA
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    @ fruit cake, don!!!8217;t worry in my case letter to IAS and the company, I have stated exactly what you said already. I said I obliged by the rules out of courtesy despite them not having the right to implement this scheme. I have quoted my lease and the laws in regards to this, I.E , altering the primacy of contract which is illegal on their part. I have also clearly stated that they should take my registration off their system and if they continue to harass me, I!!!8217;ll be taking further action. Don!!!8217;t worry, my letter was pretty precise and clear in my actions.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Jan 18, 12:40 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    I will double check my lease but as this is my own allocated space , the parking company has no right to ticket me.
    Please do as it will be enlightening. What you are looking for is whether the space is shown in the title.

    There are two cases you can read about that show the difference between an owned parking space and one that is allocated.

    Link Parking v Parkinson where the Parkinsons had title and Link v Blaney where the Blaneys didn't. Both were the same Overstone development in Cardiff. What turned the second case in favour of the parking company was a small phrase in a 30 page lease that said the "landlord is entitled from time to time may introduce regulations with regards to the proper management of the location".

    If you don't own the space, the landlord (Freeholder/Managing Agent) may have that right to introduce regulations.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 12:46 PM
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    nasescoba1985
    Lovely thank you. Iíll also have a word with the chairman of our residents association who has a bit more knowledge of the lease etc.
    • harz99
    • By harz99 10th Jan 18, 1:02 PM
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    harz99
    Surely as a leaseholder the OP does not actually own the property, and whomsoever owns the freehold does in fact own the property. The same will be the case for any allocated parking space (s).


    Very careful reading and understanding of the Lease and associated documents is required, as IAM said "I'm not clear on this "my space" issue. Is the parking space demised and shown as part of your overall ownership. Or is the space part of the Freehold and given to you on an exclusive basis as long as you meet the covenants in your lease.

    Get your lease and site plan out and check."


    Be that as it may, the OP would do well to heed and follow the ongoing advise on here from CouponMad especially, and stop going off thinking he/she knows better as in the IAS appeal which was against advice given.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 10th Jan 18, 1:09 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    Harz - the leaseholder has exclusive use, normally. If you lease a house, the freeholder cant wander in and out as they wish.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Jan 18, 1:22 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    the leaseholder has exclusive use
    Subject to any restrictions/covenants in the lease. Restrictions can also be at odds with a lease if they are positive or negative.

    Not as simple as some may give the impression. Down to the wording of the lease and the status of the land.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 1:31 PM
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    nasescoba1985
    I have bought the property so I own the property and apartment in question. The ďfree holderĒ certainly doesnít own my property so Iím not to sure where you are going with this. Like someone said, the free holder canít just come into my property as he pleases and he certainly canít change my parking space. As for the ISA issue, I just felt I have nothing to lose and I have proved that the odd person can win when appealing via the ISA, however rare it is. If I donít win and I expect now to, then Iíll just go down the court route: I donít see what the problem is?
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 1:32 PM
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    nasescoba1985
    Above was directed @ Harz
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Jan 18, 1:33 PM
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    The Deep
    @ deep, honestly If you are not going to bother helping with the situation then kindly leave my thread. Your negativity and rude nature is of no help to me here. I couldnít careless wether you are a landlord or not.
    Originally posted by nasescoba1985


    Sir, I am trying to help. Obviously you know more about letting out residential property than do I.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Jan 18, 1:34 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    The !!!8220;free holder!!!8221; certainly doesn!!!8217;t own my property
    Actually he or she does. You've only purchased the right to to occupy for the period of the lease when it reverts. If people "owned" leased properties why do they pay for lease extensions?

    You've got this idea of ownership that is at odds with property law. Check your paperwork thoroughly. Have a word with your solicitor if need be.

    It may be a short and expensive trip to a small claims court unless you have checked it.

    Should add that Leasehold is one of the biggest scams around and has been for years. You are at the mercy of the Freeholder and people that buy freeholds. They can add in service charges, appoint parking companies, and charge you their legal costs if you sue them.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 10-01-2018 at 1:41 PM.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 1:41 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    @ deep, you weren!!!8217;t really trying to help though were you when your opening reply to me was

    !!!8220; I!!!8217;m not your mate !!!8220;

    If you feel you can offer some advice then fantastic, but if you feel the need to create negativity and be rude to me, instead of guiding me then you are of no use on my thread.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 1:46 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    The only thing this thread is doing right now, is making me feel I can!!!8217;t actually win this case. I!!!8217;m getting conflicted advise from various people. What shall I just pay up and be done with it? My lease says I am allocated a parking space and residents are allocated a space for each apartment. My space corresponds with my apartment number.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 10th Jan 18, 1:55 PM
    • 2,412 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    The consistent advice you have been given by The Deep and others is to get a copy of your lease and site plan - and to check it.

    You've spent time arguing the toss when all we can do is point you in a particular direction and hope you follow it. We are all here to help but we struggle when people won't accept that things need checked.

    Read those two cases as it puts the issue (which is actually simple) into context.

    It's all to do with the context of your lease.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 2:05 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    There is no parking plan on my lease. It just states each apartment is allocated 1 parking space which corresponds with their flat number. Mine in particular is Bay 5. When we were given these permits, I was given a permit for bay 5 so clearly they received information from the management company. So now I have no case to fight this ? Even though I feel I was wrongfully ticketed in parking in my what I assumed was my own bay. If I feel
    I canít fight this, then maybe will be easier to pay up. Iíll have to wait and see if UK CPM respond their case yet to the ISA
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Jan 18, 2:06 PM
    • 7,551 Posts
    • 10,036 Thanks
    beamerguy
    The only thing this thread is doing right now, is making me feel I canít actually win this case. Iím getting conflicted advise from various people. What shall I just pay up and be done with it? My lease says I am allocated a parking space and residents are allocated a space for each apartment. My space corresponds with my apartment number.
    Originally posted by nasescoba1985
    I suggest you cool it, I don't like being called mate
    by a stranger .... probably a senior thing

    You will get all the help you need but not if a poster
    fears a back lash from you
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • nasescoba1985
    • By nasescoba1985 10th Jan 18, 2:10 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    nasescoba1985
    Well you have to understand my frustrations on here. I!!!8217;m going through something that I feel I have been wrongfully ticketed and I!!!8217;m getting people claiming I have no real right and that I don!!!8217;t own my space etc, plus I wasn!!!8217;t the one being rude initially if you actually look at the responses.
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