Asbestos & Lead Water Supply Pipes

ProDave · 17 December 2017 at 11:24AM

More worrying was a previous house I had that had a steel supply pipe.

I knew it was rusting, because it you went away for a week, when you got home you had to run the kitchen tap for 30 seconds or so to purge all the brown rusty water out.

PhilE · 19 December 2017 at 12:25AM

Doesn't matter if there's asbestos in the house, what matters is if it is safe and undamaged. Whether you want to remove it is a personal choice.

A surveyor can tell you what is obviously asbestos, like artex ceilings or an asbestos/concrete garage roof.

To find out whether there's an old concrete/asbestos flue can maybe be determined by asking if the flue has been replaced since 2000. If it has, chances are it isn't asbestos. There could also be asbestos paneling around the flue, in the form of flame retardant panels.

If a property has an old boiler system that needs replacing soon, you have to factor in asbestos removal and be prepared to pay around 2 grand for its removal. Cheaper if there's no high content asbestos.

Get the survey done as normal, and ask the surveyor to advice on asbestos. Then get a local asbestos company to inspect the property, test and advice.

EmmyLou30 · 19 December 2017 at 11:09AM

No main water distribution pipes will be lead any more, only your small section of supply pipe potentially. Thousands of homes have them and they cause no issue whatsoever as water companies add phosphoric acid during the treatment process which counteracts the plumbosolvency (where lead gets into your water). So there is no risk to your drinking water by having it come through a lead supply pipe.

Asbestos will be fine unless disturbed as well so as long as you're aware that it might be in soffits/ceilings/garage roof etc then you can take the proper precautions.

Of all the things to stress about when buying a house you've picked on two that are nothing to stress about :-)

trailingspouse · 19 December 2017 at 12:48PM

We had both when we moved in here 4 years ago - and the people before us had lived here for 25 years with no ill effects (unless being !!!! at DIY is a side effect of lead in the water...).

Once upon a time, building regs insisted on there being an asbestos ceiling to garages that were integral to a house, for fire safety reasons - we stumped up to have ours removed, on the basis that we didn't want to put anyone off when the time comes to selling it ourselves. It cost just over £1000 + VAT for the ceiling of a double garage 4 years ago - all bagged up and certificate of disposal issued. We replaced it with pink fire-retardent plasterboard.

Re the lead piping, we were gutting the place and replacing kitchen, utility room and 2 bathrooms, so the lead piping in the house all got replaced anyway. All we have left is the pipe running from the meter to the house, under the driveway. Eventually we'll replace the drive, and will probably replace the lead pipe at the same time, but until then we've chosen not to be too bothered about it. The two plumbers we've used have both suggested that it's probably so furred up that there wouldn't be an issue.

If you do decide to go ahead and buy a house with lead pipework and then have it removed, make sure you keep the old lead as you can take it to a metal recyclers and they'll buy it off you.

ShadyCharacter · 23 December 2017 at 4:02PM

Hi everyone,

I was thrilled to see all these replies

So thanks very much for taking the time out of your days to help me out! There are some good nuggets of information here. P.s. I've been away in Cardiff, which is why it's taken me so long to respond.

Anyway, I should say I've more or less narrowed my decision to the one house in Tredegar, South Wales. Apparently it was built around the 1900s.

The surveyor only alluded to the presence of asbestos using language like 'may have' and 'likely', just like you said G_M!

However in a follow-up email he also said 'with regard to asbestos there is a small risk that some fibres are present in some artex in the property but in my opinion the risk is small and not big.' So..... I'm still trying to gauge from him whether it's worth it to get the property tested.

I know quite a few of you are saying that asbestos isn't a big deal if left undisturbed. The thing that worries me is whether builders will charge more for doing work to a property that has asbestos used in its materials. That's more or less what's concerning me. Because I do want to get a boiler installed (as the house is currently heated by a coal fire central heating system), & I also want to get the bathtub replaced, & perhaps in the future replace some parts of the ceilings, floors, etc etc. Also, you never know that something could break down which you'd need to get fixed, & like I said I have no idea whether contractors charge more for properties containing asbestos. So that's what's worrying me - it's the money. Does anyone know whether builders do charge more to work on a property containing asbestos? Also, would I have to vacate the property while they're doing the works if there is asbestos present & it's going to be disturbed? How long for do you think?

In terms of the lead pipes, you guys have a point that people have been living in properties with lead water supply pipes for, like, ever. Even the person I'm planning to buy the house from has been living there for at least maybe 30 years. In any case, I also have a water filter which I use for drinking water.

EachPenny - how much would you say it costs to replace a lead water supply pipe? Just so I have an idea, for information purposes at the moment.

& thanks theoretica - that's a good idea about testing the water for lead content.

PhilE - so you're saying that I do have to pay for asbestos removal before I can get work done to the property? Because I am planning to get a boiler installed too, & a new bathtub in the very near future.

trailingspouse - haha, that made me laugh - 'being !!! at DIY is a side effect of lead in the water'.... XD So you're saying that a metal recycler would potentially buy the lead pipes off me? How much do you think they would offer for some lead pipes? By the way, I'm intrigued by your username. What do you mean by 'trailing spouse'

All in all, in regards to the whole asbestos thing my main concern is just money. I don't know whether builders charge more for working on a property containing it compared to a property that doesn't, that's all. So if somebody could answer that for me, that would be really great!

And once again, thanks a lot guys.

EachPenny · 23 December 2017 at 5:54PM

ShadyCharacter wrote: »

In terms of the lead pipes, you guys have a point that people have been living in properties with lead water supply pipes for, like, ever. Even the person I'm planning to buy the house from has been living there for at least maybe 30 years. In any case, I also have a water filter which I use for drinking water.

EachPenny - how much would you say it costs to replace a lead water supply pipe? Just so I have an idea, for information purposes at the moment.

& thanks theoretica - that's a good idea about testing the water for lead content.

A water filter will do nothing in terms of removing any disolved lead from water.

People have been living in properties with lead pipes 'for ever', but there is also a very good reason why the use of lead was banned many years ago, and some councils/water companies assist in the cost of removing lead pipework for potable water. People also once thought it was a really smart idea to add a lead compound to petrol... but that doesn't seem to be very popular now. Different people have differing levels of susceptibility to lead as a toxin and it is particularly damaging to children. Few people die directly from lead poisoning, but it contributes to various other diseases. Its effects are also unusual - it can be stored in bones and teeth and is known to be released from the bones of pregnant women into the bloodstream where the potential impact it can have is obvious.

That doesn't mean you have to panic and rip the pipe out immediately, but it does mean taking care over running potable water taps (including for brushing teeth) before use and be aware of the particular risks for women of child-bearing age and for children.

The cost of replacing the supply pipe will vary according to where you live, how long the pipe is, whether it is under concrete or soil and how much (if any) of the work you are willing to do yourself. But a ballpark of £500 to £1000 would hopefully cover it.

I understand correctly, you don't yet know if you do have a lead pipe in the house, so the first thing to do is to find out. Ask the owners if you can look at the water supply pipe where it enters the house and follow the guidance you'll find on the internet about identifying different pipe materials. Lead is quite simple as it is the only metal you can easily scrape and give a clean shiny surface. The joints are also an easy identification feature.

If you are still not sure, get a lead content test carried out for peace of mind.

ShadyCharacter · 23 December 2017 at 6:50PM

Thanks EachPenny. All of this is giving me lots of food for thought! I don't want to be in a position where I buy a house that could cost me more than I thought (especially in regards to the whole doing building work with asbestos present thing). I'm glad to hear replacing the lead piping (if present) could potentially cost as low as that (though don't worry, I'm not taking what you said as some kind of quote

).

In terms of asbestos, I emailed a builder conteactod about it & he said this: "Asbestos is either going to be in old artex or corrugated roofing. The roofing would be fine unless it was disturbed. Asbestos in artex, is quite common. If your not thinking of taking walls down with artex on or scraping off artex walls then you would be fine."

What do you guys think? Am I overreacting a bit I regard to the whole asbestos thing? Is it unlikely to cost me a huge amount compared to completely non-asbestos houses to do things like install a boiler, replace the bathtub, sections of the ceilings & floors, etc?

EachPenny · 23 December 2017 at 8:02PM

ShadyCharacter wrote: »

What do you guys think? Am I overreacting a bit I regard to the whole asbestos thing? Is it unlikely to cost me a huge amount compared to completely non-asbestos houses to do things like install a boiler, replace the bathtub, sections of the ceilings & floors, etc?

You've got to put it in the context of the cost of buying a house.

If you are buying a house worth £200k, then how much does it matter if it costs you another £10k to remove asbestos (assuming you have the money or can get a loan). If the same house was marketed at £210k would you have turned it down?

The problem comes if you max out your budget buying the most expensive house you can possibly afford. Then you have no slack for carrying out any necessary repairs. Some people adopt that approach (there's nothing wrong with it per se) but they are probably willing to delay certain work until they are in a position to afford it.

If some of the work you might do could uncover asbestos then you need to ask yourself whether you would be willing to wait until you can afford the additional costs, or if you would be desperate to get the work done asap. If, for example, the boiler has packed up and the flue is asbestos, this might not be something you can delay getting done. On the other hand, if the soffits are asbestos and the fascias are a bit manky then would you be willing to live with manky fascias until you can get the soffits sorted?

Although the manufacture and import of most asbestos products has been banned, in reality the only way you can be sure of buying an asbestos free house is to go for a new build. Even properties which were constructed after the ban could still have been repaired or modified subsequently by someone using an asbestos product. The risk is vanishingly small, but is still there. It appears some people still haven't got the message that asbestos is a potentially dangerous material.

So unless you've maxed out on your budget and know you have urgent work to do on the house then personally I don't think you should get too concerned. If any asbestos issues arise, deal with them when that happens.

Tomg84 · 23 December 2017 at 8:23PM

It is very likely that any older properties could contain asbestos - a building surveyor may not even pick up on this fact if its encapsulated or visible. Asbestos wasn't fully banned in the UK until 1999 (partial bans were in place from the 80s). A lot of people don't realise they have asbestos until they undertake building work. The only way to be sure of lead / asbestos free property is a new/recently built property

ShadyCharacter · 24 December 2017 at 6:16PM

Thanks EachPenny & Tomg84. I hope you guys have an enjoyable Christmas

The property I'm buying is very cheap at £40,000, in south Wales. At the moment I only have around £2k spare for some of the more urgent things to me, such as installing a boiler, replacing the bathtub, & sorting out the rising damp issue (this may only be enough if I'm eligible for a boiler grant, which I'm hoping I am). But in about a year I think I could have £10k to put towards carrying out any more improvements that need doing.

I'm having a bit of trouble gauging from the surveyor exactly how urgent some of the other repairs he suggested are. I'm thinking they're not very urgent, since the current seller didn't even seem to be aware that any of these problems existed, so it can't have been having much (if any) effect on the living quality of the house.

Does treating rising damp require going deep into a wall? I had a quick search online at how rising damp is treated & it seems you need to replace the damp proof course then perhaps strip away damaged plasterboard & replace that. I wonder if that would disturb any asbestos (if it's there). Do you guys know anything about treating rising damp? In any case, I've contacted a contractor about this, so I'll see what they say too. I've also heard of these ventilation bricks you can install into the wall that help it breathe & thus gets rid of the rising damp issue - e.g. SmartDry (I can't post the link, but it should turn up in an online search). What do you guys think about this method too?

So EachPenny, are you saying that the removal of asbestos from a 2-bed house could cost somewhere around £10k? I'm just trying to get a very vague idea of how much all this stuff could potentially cost to do. Also, do you know if it's possible to remove the asbestos area by area? E.g. if the contractor installing my boiler needs it to be removed, can I get somebody to remove it from just that area, or do you have to get it removed from e.g. the entire wall, or the entire house, if you see what I mean? I've contacted another contractor or two that specialises in asbestos to ask what they think too, so I'll see what they say in addition...

Also, you guys said that generally the only way to be sure of an asbestos free property is to buy a new/recently built property. Couldn't you also get an asbestos surveyor in to test the house too?

As always, thanks again. Your advice is really valuable & is helping me figure out whether this is the house for me!..

Merry Christmas!

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Asbestos & Lead Water Supply Pipes

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