Britannia parking pcn

sil74 · 17 January 2018 at 2:59PM

Hi yes, I am the same poster and could not reset my password so had to create a new login details apologies for the confusion.

Thanks

sil74 · 17 January 2018 at 3:34PM

One question please in the appeal letter I submitted using the template it states:

"You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply. "

Now I submitted my appeal 17 Dec (this is also acknowledged in their reply) and not received a reply till 11 Jan is that relevant at all or above 21 days term is not relevant?

nosferatu1001 · 17 January 2018 at 3:39PM

The 21 days is for the matter of the removal of your data under the DPA1998, which gives them a limit of 21 days to respond. Did they respond within 21 days and SPECIFICALLY talk about the DPA matter?

sil74 · 17 January 2018 at 5:23PM

Just posting the letter for ease

Thank you for your appeal received on 17/12/2017 regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice.
We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been
considered in conjunction with the photographs and any evidence provided. Our records show that the
notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of the
Car Park.
The Parking Charge Notice was issued to your vehicle because you failed to purchase a valid ticket. It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that they have read and understood the terms and conditions for using the car park.
Britannia Parking is an active member of the British Parking Association (BPA) and we follow their Approved Operators Scheme, Code of Practice at all times. Our car parks are regularly audited and our signage at this car Park has been approved by the BPA. We meet all the requirements for our signage as advised under section 18 and 19 for England and Wales or Section 28 for Scotland, of the BPA’s Code of Practice, in regards to signage and notifying the driver of the terms and conditions.
Therefore we consider there to be sufficient, clearly visible signage in the car park to draw your attention to the terms and condition of the parking contract that is on offer. By leaving your vehicle in the car park you have broken the terms and conditions and therefore we believe the Parking Charge Notice to be valid and correctly issued.
Please be aware that you have been notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full.
You are warned that if, after 28 days, the Parking Charge has not been paid in full and Britannia Parking do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the Parking Charge from the registered keeper. This warning is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.
Should we be provided with an incorrect address for service, we will pursue registered keeper for any Parking Charge that remains unpaid.
The terms and conditions the signage details that your information may be requested and shared with

the BPA, DVLA and debt recovery agents and solicitors.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

You now have a number of options from which to choose:-

1 Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate for a further 14 days.Please note that after this time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the full Parking Charge Notice amount will then be due within 14 days.

2 If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

3 Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service. Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount. If you opt to pay the Parking Charge Notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

The POPLA service is only available in England and Wales.

You must submit an appeal to POPLA within 28 days from the date of this outcome letter, by submitting

an online case at POPLA Your POPLA verification code is xxxxxxxxx.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (ombudsman-services.or) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal.
However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.’

sil74 · 17 January 2018 at 5:24PM

And to the second question no they did not answer within 21 days as I submitted my appeal online on the 17th and received above rejection via email 11th Jan. No copy received by post

thanks for any help

Coupon-mad · 17 January 2018 at 5:34PM

But they don't have to reply to the APPEAL within 21 days, only the 'Section 10 Notice' section.

sil74 · 18 January 2018 at 12:04PM

Thanks Coupon-mad, so I won't be making any reference on them taking more than 21 days to respond to my appeal.
Also as far I can see (limited knowledge here so nay further comment welcome) seems to me that they have adhered to paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 both in the NTK and response to appeal which I posted above, I therefore will be basing my appeal on these 2 points

1) Land interest
2) Signs prominence

anything else I should consider including? Thanks again

Coupon-mad · 19 January 2018 at 2:04AM

When you say 'land interest' you mean asking for a copy of the landowner contract and citing para 7 of the BPA CoP?

Your signage prominence argument will be helped by embedding incriminating pics.

sil74 · 19 January 2018 at 9:26AM

Yes Paragraph 7, here is a copy of what I am planning to use for that part

. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the land then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only).

Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules. A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.

Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply. Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum in small print on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement).

Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

sil74 · 19 January 2018 at 9:31AM

I was also going to include this paragraph to deny the existence of a contract and working on the signs prominence (Found some good examples but want to visit car park first for refreshing myself on the setup)

No Contract was entered into between the Britannia Parking Group Ltd and the Driver or Registered keeper

Although I was not the driver of the event, I would like to point out that the signs at the car park in question are unsuitable to inform drivers of the full terms and conditions of what they are entering into by physically entering the car park. Britannia Parking Group Ltd clearly relies on contract law, but does not do enough to make clear what the terms and conditions of the contract are, making it far too easy for people to unwittingly fall outside the terms of contract. It is not appropriate for a car park such as this to have such a limited amount of signs and rely on drivers to look carefully for where and how the terms are displayed. It is surely the responsibility of Britannia Parking Group Ltd to make the terms of their contract far clearer so that drivers have no doubt whatsoever of any supposed contract they may be entering into. I require Britannia Parking Group Ltd to provide evidence as to how clear the terms and conditions are and consider if the methods used are clear enough for this type of car park. I would specifically like them to look into how clear the signs are that inform drivers that ANPR cameras are in use on this site.

Furthermore, a contract can only be considered to be entered into if enough evidence exists that it actually happened. For a contract to have been entered into the driver would have had to get out of the car, read the signs, fully interpret and understand them and then agree to them. None of which ever actually happened.

I request that Britannia Parking Group Ltd provide concrete evidence that a contract existed between themselves and the driver on the day in question, which meets all the legal requirements of forming a contract. They should include specific things including, agreement from both parties, clarity and certainty of terms etc. If they are not met, then the contract would be deemed “unfair” under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999.

Britannia parking pcn

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