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  • FIRST POST
    • MORB
    • By MORB 15th Dec 17, 10:15 PM
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    MORB
    Judgement for Claim (in defalult) - PCM & Gladstones
    • #1
    • 15th Dec 17, 10:15 PM
    Judgement for Claim (in defalult) - PCM & Gladstones 15th Dec 17 at 10:15 PM
    Hi all,
    I have received a JfC in default on behalf of PCM from Gladstones. The matter is regarding 3 alleged parking contraventions that occurred in feb '17. I sent requests for POCs shortly after receiving the invoices initially sent my PCM (do not still have copies, but was a few lines requesting POC's), likely toward the end of May.

    I heard nothing further and presumed PCM were no longer going to to pursue the invoices. In July I left the UK and the address to which initial correspondence were sent. a family member continues to reside there, and in making preparations to return to the UK requested that they open residual mail sent to the address. Amongst the mail was the JfC (in default) dated the 20th Nov. As such no preceding correspondence were received (other letter in the pile was the LBC from Gladstones, but still no POCs!!).
    I have been out of the country and travelling for over 5 months and of no fixed abode during this time. I will be leaving the UK again for a prolonged period again in a few months but am happy to allow PCM/courts/Gladstones to correspond to the original address while this plays out. The claim is for 658 and constitutes 3 alleged contraventions, none of which have merit, and likely pertain to instances of stopping in a loading bay that had no prohibitive markings (no yellow lines -was not a parking space) and which was for the sole use of my previous employer (from whom I obviously had permission to be in the bay).

    Next steps:

    - Fill in the N244 form and return 3 copies to CCBC.
    - Including a statement of my case RATHER than a witness statement
    - Indicate that I'd wish for reimbursement from the claimant of the set aside fee
    - Pay 255.00 via cheque (how very archaic???)

    I will post up my defence shortly for critique but would in lieu of that be very grateful for any comment the great and wise here would be willing to offer?

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by MORB; 15-12-2017 at 11:59 PM.
Page 6
    • MORB
    • By MORB 11th May 18, 10:59 PM
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    MORB
    I'm just confused as the previous correspondence from the DJ was that the order would be set aside providing I filed my defence by the date requested, which i did as mentioned.
    This now seems not to be the case?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th May 18, 11:01 PM
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    KeithP
    Well as the Order says, if you wish to object to the Claimant being given that time to reply to your Defence, then you can object to it.

    But wait... the set aside has taken place hasn't it?

    You have now filed your Defence for the rehearing (probably not the right word).
    The Claimant now needs to respond.
    Last edited by KeithP; 11-05-2018 at 11:04 PM.
    .
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 11th May 18, 11:59 PM
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    Johnersh
    Set aside has happened.

    So, following the first order there was a detailed defence to a poor set of particulars. The court has sensibly now directed that the claimant does a reply (usually optional) because otherwise the various issues you raise will not be dealt with until witness statements.

    I know the rules are often flexed, but witness statements should really just be used to tell the story, not to shore up the original pleading because it was "a bit pants."
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 12th May 18, 11:20 PM
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    MORB
    Ok - Thank @Johnersh.

    In that case any idea how long it will be until the CCJ to be removed from my record?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th May 18, 11:26 PM
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    Quentin
    It will be gone now from the Register - it takes a little longer for the credit ref agencies to update but should all be done within a month
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th May 18, 11:27 PM
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    KeithP
    In that case any idea how long it will be until the CCJ to be removed from my record?
    Originally posted by MORB
    It should've gone from the official register as soon as the set aside was confirmed.
    The official register being www.trustonline.org.uk

    Bear in mind that the commercially available copy 'registers' may not get updated for up to a month later.
    .
    • MORB
    • By MORB 15th May 18, 12:31 PM
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    MORB
    Hi all - I contacted trustonline who subsequently spoke with the CC, who in turn, have confirmed:

    "the judgment is correctly registered and still outstanding.



    Please contact the County Court who will be able to clarify the conditions on the Order which need to be met."

    I will be calling them a little later but wanted to post here to get some opinions. Not for the first time i'm a little confused?!?!?
    • MORB
    • By MORB 15th May 18, 5:50 PM
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    MORB
    I confirmed with the CC the judgement hasn't been set aside and the new DJ has decided to 'raise' a new order which it seems supersedes the former. No reason given for why this was done.

    Should I apply for this new order to be set aside?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th May 18, 5:59 PM
    • 7,214 Posts
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    KeithP
    Should I apply for this new order to be set aside?
    Originally posted by MORB
    Difficult to say - without knowing what this 'new order' is.

    Does the 'new order' give the parties seven days to object to it?
    .
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 15th May 18, 7:37 PM
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    Johnersh
    Does the 'new order' give the parties seven days to object to it?
    It almost certainly will do.

    I suggest the o/p gets the last 3 orders (including the one most recently made) and photographs/scans them via Dropbox on here. This is now sufficiently unusual that generic comments could take this in entirely the wrong direction.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 15th May 18, 11:29 PM
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    MORB
    @johnersh - correct it does give 7 days the 17th being the last day to file that objection/application to set aside (ie, will need to be sent guaranteed next day post today to be within the 7 days).

    The 2 most recent orders are verbatim (save potentially identifying details which I've redacted) in posts 95 & 99 respectively. I will fish out the initial order tomorrow and post the same verbatim first thing.

    FWIW - the CC confirmed nothing has, as yet, has been filed by Gladstones in response.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 16th May 18, 7:08 AM
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    Johnersh
    I'd still prefer to see everything, but:

    The 2 most recent orders are verbatim (save potentially identifying details which I've redacted) in posts 95 & 99
    If so the first order you've posted clearly sets aside judgment if a defence is filed and served (which you say you have).

    I confirmed with the CC the judgement hasn't been set aside and the new DJ has decided to 'raise' a new order which it seems supersedes the former.
    The new order does not expressly supersede. It requires the claimant to serve a reply to the defence. It is quite different (and the claimant hasn't).

    I may be inclined to write to the judge asking for directions where:

    1. You never saw the Gladstones letter;
    2. An order sets aside the judgment;
    3. The judgment appears registered against you and the court staff have advised it is not set aside - despite filing a defence at court and on the claimant; and
    4. Further directions are still being made, with the claimant not serving the reply so ordered.

    Any time you write to the court like this, you should copy in the other side.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th May 18, 8:21 AM
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    nosferatu1001
    And also the OP says the court confirmed the defence was received.
    The second order doesnt stop the judgement being set aside - just requires GS to reply to the defence. If they do or dont, the judgement was still set aside as of the first order, as I understand it.

    I woul ddo exactly as Jonnersh says.

    Do you have the 3rd order yet? Im puzzled why one is needed, unless the judge is striking out the claim entirely now and ordering costs?
    • MORB
    • By MORB 16th May 18, 10:27 AM
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    MORB
    Ok - I'll put up a draft of what johnersh has advised to send above to confirm format is correct.

    FYI the Claimant still has approx 8 days during which it can validly file in accordance with the order.

    This is a link to a redacted scan of the Court Orders:

    bit.ly/ccospcm

    I have only received 2 Orders to date - the other correspondence from the CC have not been orders. @Johnersh - is there another doc you may be referring to as an order you would like to see?

    Also to reiterate, if it is believed I should request set aside of this order I must send it TODAY for it to reach within the 7 days allowed.
    Last edited by MORB; 16-05-2018 at 10:33 AM.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 16th May 18, 10:54 AM
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    MORB
    @johnersh - this is my draft of the letter you advise sending. Does it suffice?
    ---------------------------
    IN THE COUNTY COURT xxxxxxxxx

    For the attention of : Deputy District Judge Zimmels

    CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxx

    BETWEEN:

    PARKING CONTROL MANAGEMENT ltd UK (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxxxxxxxx (Defendant)

    -----------------------------------------------
    Dear Sir,

    I hereby write to seek directions on the following:

    1. That I am still to see the Gladstones letter sent to the court;
    2. An order sets aside the judgment (served on 9/4/18), the conditions of which I have complied with;
    3. The judgment appears registered against me and the court staff have advised it is not set aside - despite filing a defence at court and on the claimant; and
    4. Further directions are still being made.

    Thank you in advance.

    Yours faithfully,
    xxxxxxxx
    Defendant
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 16th May 18, 6:56 PM
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    Johnersh
    It's got the content. It suffers from lawyer-itis insofar as it looks like a defence or statement, but it works.

    If time permits, just make this a regular letter:

    Dear Deputy District Judge X

    Claimant: parking co
    Defendant: Me
    Claim No: XX18XX


    I write seeking further directions in this case in which i recently applied to set aside judgment. The court staff have advised that the original judgment has not been set aside, yet an order appears to state that it has. Additionally, there are outstanding issues as set out below.

    Etc. [Numbered points]

    Yours sincerely....
    Last edited by Johnersh; 16-05-2018 at 7:01 PM.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 16th May 18, 7:00 PM
    • 1,033 Posts
    • 1,991 Thanks
    Johnersh
    My draft above needs only points 1 and 4 listed (assuming C wants to reply to the defence).
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 17th May 18, 8:26 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    MORB
    @Johnersh thank for your helpful advice so far - it's been very valuable.

    Today was the last date to file/apply for the most recent judgement to be set aside. However, as the guidance has not been to pursue this route, I am not aware of another prevailing deadline by which I would need to send the above letter by. Is that accurate?

    I will send the above letter off tomorrow. The Order makes May 24th the date by which Gladstones/PCM must file a response Defence.

    Should I be doing anything other between now and then?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 18, 2:09 AM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,075 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Today was the last date to file/apply for the most recent judgement to be set aside. However, as the guidance has not been to pursue this route, I am not aware of another prevailing deadline by which I would need to send the above letter by. Is that accurate?
    Say that again?! What do you mean?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MORB
    • By MORB 18th May 18, 6:46 AM
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    • 12 Thanks
    MORB
    @coupon-mad - In this most recent order the DJ gave 7 days for either party to apply for the judgement to be set aside (see here: http://bit.ly/ccospcm)

    Those 7 days expired yesterday.
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