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  • FIRST POST
    • MORB
    • By MORB 15th Dec 17, 10:15 PM
    • 61Posts
    • 15Thanks
    MORB
    Judgement for Claim (in defalult) - PCM & Gladstones
    • #1
    • 15th Dec 17, 10:15 PM
    Judgement for Claim (in defalult) - PCM & Gladstones 15th Dec 17 at 10:15 PM
    Hi all,
    I have received a JfC in default on behalf of PCM from Gladstones. The matter is regarding 3 alleged parking contraventions that occurred in feb '17. I sent requests for POCs shortly after receiving the invoices initially sent my PCM (do not still have copies, but was a few lines requesting POC's), likely toward the end of May.

    I heard nothing further and presumed PCM were no longer going to to pursue the invoices. In July I left the UK and the address to which initial correspondence were sent. a family member continues to reside there, and in making preparations to return to the UK requested that they open residual mail sent to the address. Amongst the mail was the JfC (in default) dated the 20th Nov. As such no preceding correspondence were received (other letter in the pile was the LBC from Gladstones, but still no POCs!!).
    I have been out of the country and travelling for over 5 months and of no fixed abode during this time. I will be leaving the UK again for a prolonged period again in a few months but am happy to allow PCM/courts/Gladstones to correspond to the original address while this plays out. The claim is for 658 and constitutes 3 alleged contraventions, none of which have merit, and likely pertain to instances of stopping in a loading bay that had no prohibitive markings (no yellow lines -was not a parking space) and which was for the sole use of my previous employer (from whom I obviously had permission to be in the bay).

    Next steps:

    - Fill in the N244 form and return 3 copies to CCBC.
    - Including a statement of my case RATHER than a witness statement
    - Indicate that I'd wish for reimbursement from the claimant of the set aside fee
    - Pay 255.00 via cheque (how very archaic???)

    I will post up my defence shortly for critique but would in lieu of that be very grateful for any comment the great and wise here would be willing to offer?

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by MORB; 15-12-2017 at 11:59 PM.
Page 5
    • MORB
    • By MORB 12th Apr 18, 2:16 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    I'd really appreciate a bit more direction if possible with regards those comments:

    Where is it confusing ?
    What should I edit out?
    Where does it conflate different aspects?

    FYI: The costs part is largely taken from LoC's post here:
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73000370#post73000370
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Apr 18, 2:20 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    A letter before claim is used where you will institute a claim against them
    Yet you say you want them to discontinue. If its a LBA then make it one - part of your requirements could be for them to discontinue, but I would not lead with that.

    A lBA is also not a costs schedule. Theyre two different things.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 12th Apr 18, 2:51 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    I'm sorry you'll have to bare with me I'm getting a bit confused and I'm trying to dedicate enough time and resource to get this part exactly right.

    Ok - so as per C-M's post #66 I thought I was following instructions, ie to request the letter G's filed, with the court but not to me, send an LBC and cost schedule and include her wording re sending relevant paperwork should they proceed/discontinue.

    I admit to being unsure now how to word the LBC to follow both your, and C-m's, no doubt, very sensible advice.

    Could someone venture a clarification?
    Last edited by MORB; 12-04-2018 at 5:06 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Apr 18, 12:10 AM
    • 61,588 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    I am confused now, hasn't the previous advice been superseded by the Judge confirming that your CCJ has been set aside and ordering that you must now file a defence by xx date?

    As such, you need to show us your draft defence, written in the style you see in the hundreds of other Gladstones defences on here already this year.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MORB
    • By MORB 15th Apr 18, 10:11 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    Morning C-M - I was wanting to set in motion the wheels to see what it was they filed with the courts.
    I will call to find out for certain on Monday, but are the courts generally amenable to providing documents (ie Gallstones defence) if requested?

    With regards my defence. I have put something together but have not had the time this week to compare and contrast it with other successful defences submitted on the forum.

    Can you suggest a particular thread/case that can be held up as a ideal example?

    In the interim this is my first attempt: http://bit.ly/2vgBjYT. I have to go out now but will look at any suggestions posts this evening in improve where it is required.

    Thanks.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Apr 18, 11:34 AM
    • 3,429 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Your3 still confuseD

    Gladstones are not a defendant, so of course they do not have a defence. They will have filed particulars of CLAIM to the court.

    If you have been ordered to file a defence then do so. Newbies thread post 2, you have to have this bookmarked.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Apr 18, 2:12 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,465 Thanks
    KeithP
    ...this is my first attempt: http://bit.ly/2vgBjYT.
    Seventeen pages... with pictures... wow!!

    That is not a Defence.



    I have put something together but have not had the time this week to compare and contrast it with other successful defences submitted on the forum.
    Respectfully suggest that you need to find the time to make that comparison.
    .
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Apr 18, 6:17 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    A defence is a set of arguments about why you don't owe the money

    It isn't a story, it contains no photos letters etc. It's just words

    If it's more than a page you're probably on the wrong track.

    You must look elsewhere. People won't do your work for you.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 2:26 AM
    • 61,588 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    No photos, no evidence needed at defence stage, so reduce it down!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MORB
    • By MORB 16th Apr 18, 10:06 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    C-M - Thanks, understood.

    I've taken a template from something you previously helped draft. It's still a couple of pages but believe it includes ALL I wish to rely on. Found here: http://bit.ly/2H3fMsg

    With regards the email to Gladstones requesting the documents they filed, do you still advise that I send and include an LBC and cost schedule?

    If so, and, as there is an unusual chronology to this claim (& as Johnersh mentioned it's not exactly a straight forward case), any specific guidance on how to word the LBC would be gratefully received.

    I am not going to get to see the docs they filed before the deadline to file my particularised defence, so I will send it once/if you wonderful people confirm it is adequate.

    Need to post today to comply with timeframe set down by the DJ.
    Last edited by MORB; 17-04-2018 at 7:19 AM.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 17th Apr 18, 12:04 PM
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    MORB
    @coupon-mad - Would you have any objections to sending the above defence to the court and Gladstones today?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 12:18 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Looks OK to me, did you never file a WS in the end? Have you been able to provide the Court with the employer's email you showed us as evidence already, as that is very useful?

    Needs to be headed with the single word: DEFENCE (not 'statement')
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MORB
    • By MORB 17th Apr 18, 12:25 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    Ok will change that.

    I filed an initial WS but that was prior to obtaining the email from my former employer. I did not file a supplementary WS due to running out of time / work commitments etc.

    I have reference the email in my defence (para 22), would you suggest doing anything in addition?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 12:27 PM
    • 61,588 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Well at some point the email will need filing as evidence before the hearing. Is this now proceeding like a non-set aside case, where you will later be given a court date and a chance to file evidence?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MORB
    • By MORB 17th Apr 18, 12:33 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    I don't think that has been established yet. The judge advised me at the hearing to submit a fully particularised defence, including everything I "wish to rely on"

    The last correspondence I received was the 'General Form of Judgement or Order'

    Stating

    "Upon hearing a letter from claimant and hearing from Defendant in person:

    IT IS ORDERED THAT

    Judgement dated xxxxxx 2017 be set aside provided that by xxxxx date the defendant a fully particularised defence."

    Obviously I still do not know what Gladstones filed!!
    Last edited by MORB; 17-04-2018 at 1:25 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Apr 18, 1:37 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    Nope and you will not do so

    As long as you get your defence in, then the C will have to start again with a new hearing date

    I hope your draft order asked for costs in case they discontinue...
    • MORB
    • By MORB 17th Apr 18, 1:57 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    Ok, so I'm going to send the defence today to Gladstones and the Court as it appears here: http://bit.ly/2H3fMsg.

    @nosferatu1001 I added :

    "Order for the Claimant to pay the Defendant 255 as reimbursement for the set aside fee;"

    In my initial witness statement.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 17th Apr 18, 6:35 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    That is now in the post to Gladstones and the court.

    Do I now send an email to Gladstones? If so would really appreciate some specific guidance on that as I got confused as to how to format it correctly.
    • MORB
    • By MORB 11th May 18, 10:49 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    MORB
    Hi folks.
    I recently called the courts and they confirmed they had received my defence by the date set down by the DJ.
    I've now received a letter from a different DJ that reads:

    IT IS ORDERED THAT
    1. The Claimant to file and serve a reply to the defence by xx May 2018.

    2. The court having made this Order without a hearing, either party may apply to set aside or vary the order within 7 days of service of the Order.

    How should I respond to this?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th May 18, 10:53 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,465 Thanks
    KeithP
    Hi folks.
    I recently called the courts and they confirmed they had received my defence by the date set down by the DJ.
    I've now received a letter from a different DJ that reads:

    IT IS ORDERED THAT
    1. The Claimant to file and serve a reply to the defence by xx May 2018.

    2. The court having made this Order without a hearing, either party may apply to set aside or vary the order within 7 days of service of the Order.

    How should I respond to this?
    Originally posted by MORB
    You don't need to respond to it.
    It is an order to the Claimant to respond to your Defence.
    File it.
    .
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