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    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 11th Dec 17, 4:08 PM
    • 27Posts
    • 29Thanks
    iaing1000
    How to respond to Parking Eye Without Prejudice Save As To Costs letter
    • #1
    • 11th Dec 17, 4:08 PM
    How to respond to Parking Eye Without Prejudice Save As To Costs letter 11th Dec 17 at 4:08 PM
    Hi Folks,

    My first post here so hope you're all able to help.

    Parking Eye are in the process of taking me to court over a £100 parking fine in a hotel car park (reduceable to £60 if I'd paid early) where I was a patron. I'd ignored eveything expecting it to go away until a notice to go to court appeared. They wanted £175 with all the bits they'd added on.

    I've since submitted a defence using templates found online but tailoring it to my particular circumstances and with extra information appertaining to our unique case: The hotel manager has asked them to redact the claim, yet PE responded to them indicating that since it's now going to court and the fees have been paid they will need to proceed. Also, our child was ill at the time and we spent a while having to tend to him in the hotel before returning to our car so that he didn't vomit over the inside. Moreover, there was scant evidence of signage in the area of the car park in which we were situated and nothing in the hotel lobby that made us aware. There are a number of other contraindications that we've also indicated.

    4 days ago I received a letter from Parking Eye with a Without Prejudice Save As To Costs heading explaining that in light of more information having come to light they're willing to accept £60.

    One option is to ignore (would I leave myself vulnerable doing so?) but I think they're being quite bullying now and acting quite unreasonably. My suspicion is that they know the game's up and are trying it on — I'm tempted to be rather bullish in my response and presumably I can exploit the fact that they're 'trying it on' and request that my own costs are reimbursed if they're dragging things on for the sake of it. Perhaps there's a way to articulate that I think they're being unreasonable in some way and will consequently seek my own money.

    Something else I've read is that the contract between them and the 'Principal' (the hotel?) can be provided to me — can I demand this in unredacted format? What timescale can I ask them to do this in? Is it too late to ask for this now the defence has been submitted? Will the judge look unkindly on them if they do not do provide it?

    Also, could there be anything about their Without Prejudice Save As To Costs statement that essentially invalidates it — I've heard that companies band this term around when it's inappropriate hence nullifying its effect!

    So, simply put, what is the most aggressive stance I can take on this and what advice do people have on how to take this forward (even if it ends up being that I just ignore the letter and wait for the court date).


    Thanks so much in advance
Page 2
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 13th Dec 17, 8:20 AM
    • 7,569 Posts
    • 10,083 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Even better, this shows they are lying and as the letter
    does not show Without Prejudice, this letter can be
    shown in court

    Continue with your drop hands offer to PE and also
    advise the hotel that you will include them in court
    as a witness
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Dec 17, 10:35 AM
    • 2,765 Posts
    • 3,443 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    As said on pepipoo, conti nue with drop hands
    I reckon they will discontinue shortly. They lose money even if they win, and without their principal wanting this to continue theyre on even shakier ground.
    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 13th Dec 17, 8:26 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    OK, can I go with this...

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Thank you for your recent letter.

    I do not intend to pay you any money because I maintain that this claim has no basis and that there is no debt. Moreover, since you are now in receipt of further information as you indicate in your letter, I believe you too recognise how futile your position is. Further to this, I have had subsequent correspondence with the Principal and have sought additional legal advice.


    The hotel has confirmed in writing that they have requested the charge be cancelled. Parking Eye replied to the hotel that they cannot cancel as the matter is now subject to court proceedings. Parking Eye know this to be untrue and I reserve the right to bring this to the attention of the court.

    Specifically, there is no court rule whatsoever that says once proceedings are issued you have to proceed. It is Parking Eye’s problem that they've incurred court fees. Had Parking Eye complied properly with the pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, in particular paras 3, 6(a) and 6(c) then I would have been able, at that stage, to respond and to demonstrate the particular circumstances as indicated in my defence and Parking Eye would have had the choice, back then, not to proceed. I should not be penalised for Parking Eye’s failings and their over-hasty issuing of a claim.

    Therefore, be advised that should you continue to pursue this, I shall seek to claim the costs of my defence and additional costs for unreasonable conduct pursuant to CPR Part 27.


    In light of the above, along with the other points raised in my defence, this claim has no realistic prospect of success and the claimant is invited to withdraw the claim with no order for costs. This is a "drop hands" offer to settle with each party bearing their own costs. The offer is available for acceptance for a period of 14 days from the date of this letter.

    The terms of the offer have value to the claimant insofar as the defendant will not seek his costs of defending the action, where recoverable and will not pursue any additional but related claim(s) in connection with this matter.

    Should the case proceed to a court hearing where I am successful, this clear transgression from the British Parking Association’s Code or Practice will be reported to the DVLA with a request that your client is suspended from further access to the registered keeper database.

    I look forward to your reply
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Dec 17, 8:50 PM
    • 7,728 Posts
    • 7,480 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thank you for your recent letter.
    I would not be thanking Parking Eye for anything.
    Maybe replace that with:
    I am in receipt of your letter dated dd mmm 2017.

    ...a request that your client is suspended from further access to the registered keeper database.
    As you appear to be writing directly to PE, perhaps that should say:
    ...a request that Parking Eye be suspended from further access to the registered keeper database.
    .
    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 14th Dec 17, 7:59 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    One final thing before I fire this off, will my assertion that they should have contacted me prior to being so hasty to claim (pre-action?) be affected by the fact that I'd ignored the 4 previous letters? Or is it irrelevant that I ignored those if they still didn't seek to clarify my particualr circumstances and whether I was/wasn't a patron of the hotel before going straight to the County Court?

    Thanks again
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Dec 17, 12:01 PM
    • 58,574 Posts
    • 72,076 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's reasonable to suggest the Hotel and PE should have a model that doesn't put the onus on the consumer, with an expensive and onerous 'penalty' outcome if that consumer fails to do something they are not even aware of.


    Send it to enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

    and keep going, keep pressing them.

    On pepipoo I post as SchoolRunMum and I suggested you need to have an assertive go at the Hotel, I wrote a letter last night to suggest this:




    Meanwhile, reply to the bright young thing at the Hotel and say something more forceful:


    Dear bright young thing,

    That's all very interesting but with the greatest respect, why are you not supporting your customer (me) and instead letting the tail wag the dog? ParkingEye are your agent and they answer to the Hotel, not vice versa. Regrettably there appears to have been a lack of due diligence here by the Hotel, in allowing this notorious firm on site (Google them, and I don't mean to read their website).

    You should be telling them what to do, not 'asking how they can help us'.

    If made public, complaints like this from hounded victims of ParkingEye's abhorrent business model can and will tarnish your good name, and ultimately no doubt when you realise what is happening, as a long term solution I trust the Hotel will end the contract. Short term, I look forward to receiving the Hotel's proposals for you either instructing (not asking) your contractor to cancel this charge, or paying them off if you believe their sorry tale of needing £60 to go away.

    yours faithfully,
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 14th Dec 17, 2:45 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    Hi SchoolRunMum/Coupon-Mad :-)

    Thanks so much for your help, I'll send off the version I've ogt in that case to PE's enforcement team. Should I post by normal mail too?

    Will press the hotel more too definitely,

    Thanks again
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th Dec 17, 6:56 PM
    • 58,574 Posts
    • 72,076 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No, I recommend constant annoying email tennis with PE, no posting to them at all, ever. Just keep pinging emails.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 15th Dec 17, 12:52 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    Cool, that's easier for me I suppose.

    Have received an email receipt from them so just sit tight for now until their 14 days elapse.
    • ampersand
    • By ampersand 16th Dec 17, 9:35 PM
    • 8,434 Posts
    • 32,798 Thanks
    ampersand
    Op, hello again.

    Living in this Notspot causes many probs, hence disappearance of strong suggestion/correction posted earlier.

    After the event now, but changed 'because I maintain...' to statement of fact: 'because this speculative invoice Is without any basis in Law.'
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT&BUDGET HELP:01274 760720, freephone0800 328 0006
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    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 24th Dec 17, 10:13 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    OK, I've had a response from PE.

    Another without prejudice save as to costs letter but this time asking for a redcued £40! If they carry on like this they'll end up owing me money :-)

    In the letter they do say: "We note your comments in relation to the cancellation request from the hotel. However, once the Parking Charge is processed for Legal proceedings, ParkingEye has no obligation to cancel the Parking Charge and this is done only at ParkingEye's discretion, this is a procedure that the hotel is aware of."

    They also ask me to refer to the Reply to Defecne letter dated 20th December (which I've not recieved even though this latest letter is dated 21st December and one would expect it to have arrived earlier?) as their position remains the same.

    I also received a double sided semi-completed sheet with no covering letter that is titled "Directions questionnaire (Small Claims Track)" and which seems to indicate their wish to go to mediation. I'm not clear whether this has come from the court or PE (because it's entirely without context or covering letter), in any case it contains sections caleld A) Settlement/Mediation where section A1 has the 'Yes' box ticked when asking 'Do you agree to this case being referred to the Small Cliams Mediation Service' and B) Your Contact Details (PE's pre-completed on the photocopy which makes me think it's from them) and C) Track and sections for expert evidence (D) and a fee (E).

    So, what to do now? I'm assuming going to mediation plays into their hands since bean counters at the court will want to just sort things out quickly and the details won't get the proper airing I'd like.

    Do I have to actively agree to also go to the Small Claims Mediation service otherwise it goes the original Coiunty Court route, or instead, if I ignore this does it default to the Small Claims Mediation?

    The fact that they're even reducing the costs now suggetss a sign of weakness. Also the mediation is presumably where they thin kthey have the best chance?

    Any ideas?

    Merry Christmas all ... even PE :-)
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 24th Dec 17, 10:46 AM
    • 7,569 Posts
    • 10,083 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Well well, PE digging a hole for themselves and certainly
    still trying to scam you but for just £40 now.

    Remember they said they COULD NOT cancel going
    to court ..... LIE NUMBER 1

    Now they are saying its at their discretion and the hotel
    knows this ..... but memory says they told the hotel that
    they COULD NOT CANCEL ?? .... LIE NUMBER 2

    MEDIATION ? You do not want mediation which is
    your right.

    You want to show a judge that PE tells lies and in particular
    the fact that the hotel asked PE to cancel but PE ignored
    and lied to their principal

    Whoever is writing these PE letters needs to be sacked
    as without doubt, they will get PE whooped in court.

    PE are proving themselves as scammers here

    By the way, I think a judge can over ride a Without Prejudice
    letter if it contains vital evidence ?
    The solicitors on here will correct me if that's wrong
    Last edited by beamerguy; 24-12-2017 at 11:01 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Dec 17, 5:01 PM
    • 58,574 Posts
    • 72,076 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No to Mediation, it has no place here. That DQ is from PE. You need to complete your own DQ.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 27th Dec 17, 12:11 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    Thanks folks, I assumed no to mediation.

    1 )
    a. Do I request a DQ from the court?
    b. And if so to whom do I send it?
    c. What happens if I ignore all this, would it go to mediation or would I have to be consulted and actively agree?

    2) What about beamerguy's suggestion of asking the court to cancel the Without Prejudice letter if it appears to contain contradictory statements (They can't cancel to Principal and that it's at their discretion to me)?

    3)
    a. Should I be writing to PE too indicating that I am seeking to have this dealt with in the County Court not via mediation, so that I've spelled it out to them at least?
    b. Should I also indicate their apparently contradictory staements (as above) and that I intend to make the court aware of these because this is vital and overides the protection afforded to them via the Without Prejudice?

    Cheers again
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 27th Dec 17, 1:47 PM
    • 2,765 Posts
    • 3,443 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Already responded on pepipoo.
    • Computersaysno
    • By Computersaysno 28th Dec 17, 8:54 AM
    • 960 Posts
    • 748 Thanks
    Computersaysno
    Try this link for a costs schedule that will make the PPC eyes water!!!


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5723229
    Welcome to the world of 'Protect the brand at the cost of free speech'
    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 29th Dec 17, 10:47 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    I've tried going onto Moneyclaims online, in order to see where things are, and my password isn't recognised. Is there somewhere I can change it or get it reset - can't see anything obvious?

    I've tried again with the one sent in the defence pack paperwork and it ain't working...ho hum
    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 29th Dec 17, 5:50 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    OK, very much sorted this now.

    Phoned the Northampton CC and they explained that the N180 form will be sent to me in due course and hasn't yet been issued and there's no rush (although obvs I'll chase mid Jan or so). PE send out their completed form to both me & NCC apparently.

    I'll complete when a little less tied up with Christmas etc and this takes the heat off a little.
    • iaing1000
    • By iaing1000 5th Jan 18, 11:39 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    iaing1000
    I've now had the N180 form and completed and returned to the court indicating NO to mediation. I'm required to send this to PE as well and so will attach scanned copies with the following proposed email:



    Dear Sir/Madam,

    In response to your recent letter please note that I do not intend to pay because this speculative invoice is without any basis in law. Moreover, I am not in receipt of your reply to the defence which you claim was sent 20th December.

    In your letter to me you stated that cancellation is only done at ParkingEye!!!8217;s discretion once legal proceedings have commenced. However, it appears the manager of the Hotel had been led to believe that cancellation was not possible at this stage, and then herself had a contradictory email from the enforcements team. I intend to cross examine your witness on the day to explain why they have misrepresented the contract.

    Please find attached my completed DQ which has also been sent to the CCBC,

    Any suggested changes to this? Maybe leave out the whole second para since she'd been told that by phone? Also, what becomes of my drop hands offer from the previous letter I sent !!!8212; they haven't acknowledged it so do I state that it's left open for a further 14 days or what?


    Thanks all
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 12:35 AM
    • 58,574 Posts
    • 72,076 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Any suggested changes to this?
    Looks reasonable to me.


    Maybe leave out the whole second para since she'd been told that by phone?
    No, I like the ambiguity raised in that second para.


    Also, what becomes of my drop hands offer from the previous letter I sent !!!8212; they haven't acknowledged it so do I state that it's left open for a further 14 days or what?
    No, absolutely do not mix a reply that you might want to show at the hearing, with any kind of 'offer' because if ParkingEye reply they'll refuse the offer and head the entire reply 'Without Prejudice', which means you then can't use the exchange in court during the hearing.

    So NO OFFER and no reference to it, in this comms.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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