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  • FIRST POST
    • numps
    • By numps 8th Dec 17, 2:09 PM
    • 128Posts
    • 223Thanks
    numps
    Parking fine but not my car wrong ANPR details
    • #1
    • 8th Dec 17, 2:09 PM
    Parking fine but not my car wrong ANPR details 8th Dec 17 at 2:09 PM
    Hi all,
    I received a parking fine for parking in Sheffield on 1st august which is 2 hours away and I don't go there, with someones reg number which is a Y and not a V, not my car! I e-mailed them to tell them their mistake and was told to ignore anything while they investigated it. Now I have a court judgment in the post. I've also got video evidence I could not be in Sheffield and sent pictures of my car which doesn't have a sun roof, spoiler and its a different red! This is from minster baywatch and now Gladstones Really don't want a CCJ, so looking for help!

    thanks
Page 4
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 2nd Jan 18, 3:11 PM
    • 36,801 Posts
    • 83,276 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I!!!8217;d wait for Johnersh or LoC123 to comment with regard to item 3.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Cross out 3, sign it, send it back with a list of costs/expenses incurred otherwise the OP will go for a set side without consent plus DPA breach, as helpfully admitted in that very same letter?

    Definite complaint/follow up to D. Durnford, query to DVLA asking who requested keeper details, and why two reg Nos were given insead of just the correct one as they (DVLA) have also committed a DPA breach.

    Also, complain to your MP, and add contact WHICH as per this thread.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5765579
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 02-01-2018 at 3:14 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • numps
    • By numps 2nd Jan 18, 3:17 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    numps
    what did david dunsford say when you contacted him , I know that he read the thread on MSE , but needed directions from you?
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Hes been dealing with them directly and is the reason this is being sorted, we have been e-mailing.
    • numps
    • By numps 2nd Jan 18, 3:18 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    numps
    Cross out 3, sign it, send it back with a list of costs/expenses incurred otherwise the OP will go for a set side without consent plus DPA breach, as helpfully admitted in that very same letter?

    Definite complaint/follow up to D. Durnford, query to DVLA asking who requested keeper details, and why two reg Nos were given insead of just the correct one as they (DVLA) have also committed a DPA breach.

    Also, complain to your MP, and add contact WHICH as per this thread.


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5765579
    Originally posted by Fruitcake

    Yes number 3 is the one that worried me!
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Jan 18, 3:29 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,308 Thanks
    pappa golf
    Hes been dealing with them directly and is the reason this is being sorted, we have been e-mailing.
    Originally posted by numps
    have minster baywatch been sanctioned?

    this thread along with corrispondance from D dunsford should be fowarded to the head of the ATA they use

    that would be Steve clark at the BPA , who should give sanction points to baywatch for there actions (inc the hiring of gladys)
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 2nd Jan 18, 5:44 PM
    • 2,748 Posts
    • 3,413 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    3 is of concern. Strike it and include all your costs, including the 100 YOUhave to pay for the set aside.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Jan 18, 9:04 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,936 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Cross #3 out, I agree with what the other regulars have said. Johnersh or LOC123 might suggest an amendment to secure your costs as part of this consent order, if that is possible.

    No way are you to remain 100 out of pocket - of course you are entitled to your wasted costs of 100 (plus any p&p or other reasonable costs you might want to add).

    And ratchet up the complaints as advised above.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 2nd Jan 18, 11:52 PM
    • 1,067 Posts
    • 2,063 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Ok, this is an application to set aside a CCJ. As a fee is specified for set asides on Form EX50, the fact that it is consented to does not adjust the tariff (as I had once assumed it would). It will cost 255 to send off the paperwork.

    Add to that the costs of any Experian searches you have done, petrol at 0.45 per mile for any site visits etc and you have significant costs that you need to recover.

    Item 3 must be deleted from the consent order and replaced with the following wording.

    The Claimant do pay the Defendant's Court Court costs and disbursement costs of and occasioned by the application, to be assessed if not agreed.
    OR
    The Claimant do pay the Defendant's costs in any event within 14 days of this order agreed at [ ] .

    Whichever suits.The first wording provides for no claim for your time, but full reimbursement for everything else. It's a bit clunky, but it'll do.

    Since you've got to pay the Court fee anyway to register the thing, the Claimant PPC has the choice of haggling over what the number should be or waiting for you to apply and then heading over to Court to explain exactly how it is that they registered a CCJ on notice despite pre-action correspondence making it clear that they had the wrong Defendant (which is when you seek unreasonable costs from the judge and all your time etc).

    You're in a decent bargaining position and should provide them with an itemised list of your costs. The notion that the costs may increase if they have to attend a court hearing shouldn't be lost on them.

    Finally, it would be remiss of me to point out that this is EXACTLY the type of case that is most suitable for the Which complaint (there's a whole thread devoted to that)

    ...and why this consultation was launched shortly after Christmas:
    https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/default-county-court-judgments-2/supporting_documents/defaultcountycourtjudgmentsconsultation.pdf
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 2nd Jan 18, 11:57 PM
    • 1,067 Posts
    • 2,063 Thanks
    Johnersh
    As a footnote, it may be that Gladstones will want to pay for and file the application themselves (i.e. it becomes their application).

    At that point you are not down the 255 fee for the application, but they need to know that you will still want those other costs paid, so my proposed wording above would still be appropriate, you just agree a smaller fee.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Jan 18, 12:00 AM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,936 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    First time I've seen that link, Johnersh.

    Happy to see they sent a copy of the paper to the BMPA, of which I am a founder member but don't have day-to-day involvement due to my day job & family commitments.

    But wow, as well as sending it to the BPA and IPC, they specifically sent it to ParkingEye. No other PPCs. Jeez. The status that consumer-hated, moneygrabbing company has, is abhorrent. MPs even named and shamed them as 'cowboys' in Parliament, yet still they wheedle their way into Government consultations as if they might actually have valid points to make.

    Sickbags out. The lobbying smarm of that company and their ilk, if shaking hands with Government advisers in person to put 'their side, as industry leaders' would be horrendous to hear as a fly on the wall. They need banning entirely.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-01-2018 at 12:04 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 3rd Jan 18, 12:35 AM
    • 1,067 Posts
    • 2,063 Thanks
    Johnersh
    But wow, as well as sending it to the BPA and IPC, they specifically sent it to ParkingEye. No other PPCs. Jeez.
    Simple reason, obviously they had to send it to both debtor and creditor representatives and we can infer that PE are securing more default judgments than other PPCs - not in itself surprising, given its capita-owned resources.

    It's an overdue review and I say that not just in the context of parking cases. I also wouldn't say PE are wheedled into the consultation - there is nothing to stop anyone submitting a response, save that it would need to be well-reasoned with clear examples.
    Last edited by Johnersh; 03-01-2018 at 12:38 AM.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Jan 18, 12:41 AM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,936 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes and they will (provide well-reasoned clear examples) because someone will write it for them.

    And who knows how much weight will be placed on their response and that of the BPA and IPC (pass the sick-bag again).

    I recall when the Dept for Transport published that they wanted to stop PPCs from issuing penalties at Motorway services, due to all the complaints from motorists. A survey was made public which *we* (the good guys & girls, who I would list at the time as bargepole, me, the Prankster and the BMPA main founder) just missed seeing in time. This was around the time when we all started rallying here and sussing out who was who, learning which posters were trustworthy, with an altruistic agenda.

    We all know what happened to the idea the DFT had clearly put forward, that for reasons of fairness for tired drivers, they should be able to pay retrospectively or be reminded when leaving, that they had stayed longer than 2 hours and owed 11 tariff. Oh no, none of that got past the BPA lobbying, and the likes of PE rolled out more and more PCNs at surprised drivers 2 or 3 weeks later, giving them NO chance to pay the 11 that they knew nothing about.

    How awful to be a person who actually MAKES that anti-consumer argument in response to Government papers. How can such people do that for a living (and live with themselves) is beyond me.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-01-2018 at 12:50 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • numps
    • By numps 3rd Jan 18, 8:24 AM
    • 128 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    numps
    I'm of the view the set aside will not cost me.

    Thank you all, I'll amend and send back
    Last edited by numps; 03-01-2018 at 8:44 AM. Reason: added
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 3rd Jan 18, 9:52 AM
    • 35,869 Posts
    • 20,109 Thanks
    Quentin
    Ok, this is an application to set aside a CCJ. As a fee is specified for set asides on Form EX50, the fact that it is consented to does not adjust the tariff (as I had once assumed it would). It will cost 255 to send off the paperwork.
    Originally posted by Johnersh

    No.


    The fee for an application by consent is 100
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 3rd Jan 18, 1:53 PM
    • 1,067 Posts
    • 2,063 Thanks
    Johnersh
    The fee for an application by consent is 100
    Generally yes, for all consent orders.

    But it depends how you interpret the wording 'except where a fee is otherwise specified'

    A fee is specified for set asides. That was my point.

    You may well be right, Quentin, but on re-read information the EX50 it's far from clear.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 3rd Jan 18, 2:21 PM
    • 35,869 Posts
    • 20,109 Thanks
    Quentin
    Generally yes, for all consent orders.

    But it depends how you interpret the wording 'except where a fee is otherwise specified'

    A fee is specified for set asides. That was my point.

    You may well be right, Quentin, but on re-read information the EX50 it's far from clear.
    Originally posted by Johnersh



    Not being argumentative.

    You are mistaken. The fee for a set aside by consent is 100

    But if you want to get another opinion you could phone a court.
    Last edited by Quentin; 03-01-2018 at 2:24 PM.
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 5th Jan 18, 2:04 PM
    • 2,139 Posts
    • 3,592 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    I think Gladstones will take responsibility for filing the application and paying the fee, but they need to formally say that.


    That then just leaves your out of pocket expenses (disbursements) that you've incurred, and the time you've spent on all those phone calls/emails. I'd write back saying you'll sign it but you want para 3 amended so that you are paid your costs, and propose a figure.


    Interestingly, they haven't tried to prohibit you from a later claim for damages for breach of your DPA rights. So you could even say that you intend to issue a claim and would prefer to deal with everything together and propose a figure for that too, and they can then add a clause that you will not issue any later claim in relation to any alleged breach of your DPA rights.


    So I'd reply with something like this:


    Dear Sirs,


    Thank you for the draft order. I assume that you are intending to file the application and pay the fee?


    With regard to paragraph 3, it is not reasonable that there should be no costs order. Your client has confirmed that it made an administrative error and proceedings should never have been issued against me. I am therefore entitled to my out of pocket expenses and costs in relation to the time I have spent on this matter. My out of pocket expenses are x (consisting of ........) and I have spent x hours and x minutes dealing with the claim and corresponding with you/your client/the DVLA and the BPA. Allowing for the usual litigant in person rate of 19 per hour, I would therefore accept a payment of x and this should be put into paragraph 3.


    One more issue which we have not specifically corresponded about is your client's breaches of my rights under the Data Protection Act. I am entitled to damages in respect of those breaches. Your client would have no defence to such a claim, having admitted that my details should never have been obtained from the DVLA because it made an administrative error. I propose that we deal with this claim as part of the set aside, and that your client pays me the sum of x (you could ask for 750 but are more likely to get the money if you ask for less), and invite you to insert a clause to this effect.


    Please send me an amended consent order.


    Yours faithfully etc.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • numps
    • By numps 6th Jan 18, 2:28 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    numps
    Thank you for this, it is very helpful, just one question do i add in for harassment and distress it has caused, as another figure or fight that later?

    many many thanks!

    I think Gladstones will take responsibility for filing the application and paying the fee, but they need to formally say that.


    That then just leaves your out of pocket expenses (disbursements) that you've incurred, and the time you've spent on all those phone calls/emails. I'd write back saying you'll sign it but you want para 3 amended so that you are paid your costs, and propose a figure.


    Interestingly, they haven't tried to prohibit you from a later claim for damages for breach of your DPA rights. So you could even say that you intend to issue a claim and would prefer to deal with everything together and propose a figure for that too, and they can then add a clause that you will not issue any later claim in relation to any alleged breach of your DPA rights.


    So I'd reply with something like this:


    Dear Sirs,


    Thank you for the draft order. I assume that you are intending to file the application and pay the fee?


    With regard to paragraph 3, it is not reasonable that there should be no costs order. Your client has confirmed that it made an administrative error and proceedings should never have been issued against me. I am therefore entitled to my out of pocket expenses and costs in relation to the time I have spent on this matter. My out of pocket expenses are x (consisting of ........) and I have spent x hours and x minutes dealing with the claim and corresponding with you/your client/the DVLA and the BPA. Allowing for the usual litigant in person rate of 19 per hour, I would therefore accept a payment of x and this should be put into paragraph 3.


    One more issue which we have not specifically corresponded about is your client's breaches of my rights under the Data Protection Act. I am entitled to damages in respect of those breaches. Your client would have no defence to such a claim, having admitted that my details should never have been obtained from the DVLA because it made an administrative error. I propose that we deal with this claim as part of the set aside, and that your client pays me the sum of x (you could ask for 750 but are more likely to get the money if you ask for less), and invite you to insert a clause to this effect.


    Please send me an amended consent order.


    Yours faithfully etc.
    Originally posted by Loadsofchildren123
    • numps
    • By numps 6th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    numps
    To add insult to injury I got a bailiffs letter yesterday! Heartbreaking telling my son not to answer the door!!! ( again)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 2:52 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,936 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Certainly do not pay bailiffs over this, no matter how assertive they are (and yep, no foot in the door).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • numps
    • By numps 8th Jan 18, 9:34 AM
    • 128 Posts
    • 223 Thanks
    numps
    Any ideas if i should add on about distress?
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