Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 8th Dec 17, 8:05 AM
    • 49Posts
    • 17Thanks
    Blossoms17
    Minster baywatch
    • #1
    • 8th Dec 17, 8:05 AM
    Minster baywatch 8th Dec 17 at 8:05 AM
    Hi,
    Having recently moved to York and changed address, the previous parking notices were not received from this company. However, the company seem to think a court claim is the way forward for the vehicle being parked for approx 12-15 mins in the car park whilst the driver looked for a method of payment then promptly drove away as they realised they had not got any change or cards on them.. Is it even legal for the company to do this for a stay of under 20 mins?
    Thanks for the help but having read all the information on the newbies thread but I I don't have any previous correspondence and this court claim from gladstones is the first I've heard. I'm totally shocked by it. What do I need to do?
    Last edited by Blossoms17; 08-12-2017 at 8:08 AM. Reason: Making it clearer
Page 5
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 18, 12:55 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,473 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    this case was transferred from Wigan to york as I now live in york
    One of the worst Judge's decisions I've ever read in a PPC case, was Janeo's case on pepipoo, that I think was at Wigan. Clueless Judge. So be glad not to be there!
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 11th Apr 18, 11:17 AM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    Hi, is there anyone who can advise me please? I feel like I've been advised to fight this ticket but then left to deal after bmpa have closed the case. I'd appreciate some help if possible. Does anyone know if this case is worth attending on the day or a foregone conclusion?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Apr 18, 12:08 PM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,230 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    BMPA help win two cases yesterday. This one http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5825427 and another in Worcester.

    What were you advised to do and why don't you want to do it?
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 12th Apr 18, 5:02 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    I was told that I probably have no chance of winning as it's being held in York, also, that I needed to explain why I was there which I of course would do. Then they said they would cl Ouse the case. I asked why I had been told 99% had now been reduced to virtually no chance and did not receive a reply except to say I should ask on here. Doesn't seem very positive to me but maybe that's just the way I've taken it. Maybe someone here can elaborate?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 12th Apr 18, 5:22 PM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,230 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    I needed to explain why I was there
    And the answer is? Also was any payment made or it will affect which "grace" period it covers. There is one at the start and one at the end of parking.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 12th Apr 18, 9:27 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    Well I was trying to find somewhere to park so I could meet my daughter but changed my mind after reading the sign, no payment was made and I left after 13 mins. Another question is, how do I not say I was the driver but I know there was only one sign with small print informing me of cameras and fine?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • 11,389 Posts
    • 11,924 Thanks
    KeithP
    Can I respectfully suggest that you may find it difficult to defend this as the keeper. Your last two posts have both told the world who the driver was.

    The keeper could easily have been an occupant of the car, rather than the driver.

    You might consider changing the first sentence of post #86 to look something like:
    Well the driver was trying to find somewhere to park so we could meet our daughter but changed our mind after reading the sign, no payment was made and we left after 13 mins.
    Last edited by KeithP; 12-04-2018 at 9:37 PM.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 9:37 PM
    • 20,456 Posts
    • 25,797 Thanks
    Redx
    the only point in defending as keeper is if MB failed the law , namely POFA2012

    if they used POFA2012 wording and issued the ticket or tickets correctly then that would mean POFA2012 cannot play a part

    due to what you said above, it may be easier to defend as driver and hope that a judge would see that you left in a reasonable time period due to reading the signs and rejecting their offer of a contract to park
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 13th Apr 18, 10:12 AM
    • 4,185 Posts
    • 5,021 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Yes this is a forum to discuss things
    This is also a public forum, meaning PPCs can read it as well. Revealing the driver can be detrimental to a case, so isnt done lightly. Or shouldt be, if youd done some reading around.

    She can provide a supporting witness statement , to the effect that you were driving aruond. She does not then have to attend any hearing, but of course would give more credence to her statement if she could be there.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Apr 18, 10:16 AM
    • 20,706 Posts
    • 32,613 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Of course I'm saying I'm he driver on here it's a forum for discussion of these matters isn't it?? Anyway, I was advised to state I was there by bmpa. My daughter was there too but I don't want her to be implicated as she suffers with health issues.
    Originally posted by Blossoms17
    Of course, where Parking Companies are banned from viewing and MSE blocks them copying and pasting into their court evidence anything that incriminates the Defendant.

    Ask Lamilad about how his posts on here and on PePiPoo were hoovered up by the PPC and mercilessly used against him in court.

    But all of this stuff we give you is of an advisory nature. If you feel you wish to discard bits that don't suit, it's a free world.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Apr 18, 5:54 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,473 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I think some of the comments such as 99% of cases are won is misleading after reading what bmpa said.
    No, we do see 99% of cases won on here (I keep records). I know for a fact that there were only two lost in 2017 and just one lost* so far this year and we can help you as well. Do stick around.

    Hi, is there anyone who can advise me please? I feel like I've been advised to fight this ticket but then left to deal after bmpa have closed the case. I'd appreciate some help if possible. Does anyone know if this case is worth attending on the day or a foregone conclusion?
    Originally posted by Blossoms17
    Calm down. We and the BMPA help people win, ALL the time. And I said this earlier:

    Highly unlikely they'd win
    And I advised you that York was better than Wigan!

    Did you say you had already filed a WS or do you want help with your WS and the evidence you need to file in advance of the hearing? Tell us what you need from us, show us your draft WS if you have not yet filed it.

    Sounds like you could win on lack of grace period/lack of signs/no contract (small print not seen).




    *no big deal, they just paid within 30 days. No need to let this get to you so much, honestly, you are in the best place with advice from us and the BMPA. Hundreds of people won by using this forum in 2017 and 2018 and claimed costs.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 13-04-2018 at 6:03 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Apr 18, 6:17 PM
    • 20,456 Posts
    • 25,797 Thanks
    Redx
    generally speaking , we try to protect people from blabbing about who was driving as usually its better if they protect the identities by choosing to use the terms THE DRIVER and THE KEEPER, as generally we are advising them as KEEPER and not to mention who was driving when on a public forum like MSE

    in fact, prople are too fast and loose with information on the internet , especially f*cebook and public forums , you need to be net savvy and never give out personal information, including who was driving

    I did tell you that in this case it would seem that the driver would stand a better chance in court after it was explained in more detail and that the driver chose to leave due to the terms on the signage, with no intention to park

    it seems that the BMPA drew the same conclusion, plus I still believe that the driver can tell this to a judge and that judge may take the view that the driver left in a reasonable time period, and did not park or accept the parking contract and should win the case

    if you are at the WS stage as mentioned above, then you need help with that, plus you should also be submitting evidence like signage etc too

    so you are in the minority where the driver is putting their case forward and not relying on keeper immunity under POFA2012

    you need to believe that we are trying to help you , BUT you need to learn to have a thicker skin and accept that most people would not be defending themselves as a driver, but as a keeper, which is why you are being criticised for giving out too much information on the internet

    its easy enough to write THE DRIVER instead of the words "ME , MYSELF & I" , just like MP,s dont mention other peoples names in parliament, they talk about "the member for Huntingdon" (or Grantham) etc , or they say "the right honourable member opposite , or MR SPEAKER or THE PRIME MINISTER etc - third party speak - lawyer speak if you like

    but as you are admitting to being the driver, do your paperwork based on a driver defending their own actions , and tailor the WS and the signage issues etc from that angle
    Last edited by Redx; 19-04-2018 at 10:25 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 23rd Apr 18, 3:15 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    Can I draw your attention to this which is on the honest John website : 'The way that these private parking tickets !!!8216;work!!!8217; is that it is all based on civil contract law. If a motorist breaches the advertised terms and conditions then the PPC will either seek !!!8216;damages!!!8217; or a !!!8216;contractual sum!!!8217; for that breach. Only the driver is potentially liable for the parking charge (but the 'keeper' can be held liable is the driver is not identified).'
    I've also read that driver keeper rule is only in Scotland not England and Wales.

    You see I have been trawling information and trying to gather my facts regarding this, and as for developing a thicker skin, I have taken advice given by some very helpful people on here and have always maintained the driver/keeper element as advised. However, the comments 'highlighting' any errors I've made are unhelpful and quite frankly, the whole process does incur an element of stress as most people do not know the law and it is a minefield out there. I am personally trying to focus on other things as I have a stressful job and am studying an MA along with moving house and counties but my attention is always dragged away by this niggling mosquito of a court summons and the injustice of it for being on a piece of land for 13 minutes which is why I've taken the company on. However, I don't have hours on end to focus on this and now wish I hadn't gone down this route which is my point.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 23rd Apr 18, 3:21 PM
    • 20,456 Posts
    • 25,797 Thanks
    Redx
    most of the stuff on his site is rubbish and way out of date

    the KEEPER liability can be correct in E & W since oct 2012 due to POFA 2012

    this isnt the samaritans, if you have done things wrong or said stuff you shouldnt have then it will be pointed out to you , for your education and for your future

    nobody is going to wrap this up in fluffy towels , we tell it warts and all so you get the actual advice you need, even if the medicine used tastes bad

    nobody who replies on here is going to mollycoddle you, but you will get straight talking and tough love if that enables you to get the advice you need , warts and all

    your personal feelings are not relevant , you wanted advice on l;egal mattersa and you got the best advise available, what you do with that advice is your concern , not ours

    we want you to win, so straight talking is what you get, any cuddles and trreats can come at the end of the process, not whilst in training

    even MARTIN LEWIS tells people off live on tv when they havent switched energy providers etc
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 23rd Apr 18, 3:27 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    Ha ha I don't need cuddles thanks but appreciate your honesty. I'm not bleating or asking for sympathy just straight forward talking in my own way. Thanks anyway.
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 23rd Apr 18, 3:29 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    By the way, the Scotland law vs England and Wales was off a legal website. This also highlights and illustrates why finding good info is such a minefield. Nuff said. My case is next week so will let you know ant outcome.
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 3rd May 18, 1:01 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    I won!!!' Thanks for all your help with this.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 3rd May 18, 1:06 PM
    • 20,706 Posts
    • 32,613 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I won!!!' Thanks for all your help with this.
    Originally posted by Blossoms17
    Very well done.

    Could you please give us a bit of a run down on how the case went.? Which court, who the Judge was, did MB field anyone - employee or legal rep (name?), did you have a hard time with the Judge, or did the MB rep get the hard time? On what basis did the Judge find for you.? Did you get your costs awarded to you at the end?

    All of this would be amazingly helpful to othe MB cases, some which are getting ever nearer to their court appearances.

    It's a good win v MB, because I think previously they've had some court success.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Blossoms17
    • By Blossoms17 3rd May 18, 2:31 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    Blossoms17
    Well it was all over in a matter of minutes but I believe it was district judge Wright in York county court according to the documentation I was sent. I didn't even get the opportunity to speak except to correct the representative from Gladstone's solicitors as she got two things wrong so I didn't get the opportunity to ask about her credentials. The judge was brilliant and basically used my statement that I could not have entered into a contract before being able to read the signage as i had to pull into the car park before reading. He stated that a contract cannot be entered into in ignorance and 'entering' the car park did not breach any contract with the claimants. The claimants representative got two things wrong as I said which was the amount they were claiming and the date of the alleged parking incident. She looked quite foolish and defeated after he declared there was no contract I thanked the judge and left. I didn't counterclaim as I got the result I wanted. I was 2 minutes over the 'grace period' justice has been done. It was a little stressful and I did lose sleep but I'm now very glad I fought these bullies as they would have had 100 of my hard earned cash or more for nothing! Thanks again guys.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 3rd May 18, 2:37 PM
    • 20,706 Posts
    • 32,613 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    He stated that a contract cannot be entered into in ignorance and 'entering' the car park did not breach any contract with the claimants.
    Interesting - might be very useful not only to future MB court victims, but also as a point to explore for other motorists facing court cases.

    The claimants representative got two things wrong as I said which was the amount they were claiming and the date of the alleged parking incident.
    You really couldn't make this up. Jeez.

    Brilliant. Thank you so much for the detail, it will help forum regulars with future cases and other motorists reaching the court stage.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,304Posts Today

8,223Users online

Martin's Twitter