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  • FIRST POST
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 7th Dec 17, 8:20 PM
    • 14Posts
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    Collingsisit
    Advice for a strange situation
    • #1
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:20 PM
    Advice for a strange situation 7th Dec 17 at 8:20 PM
    Evening all.

    Erm I am hoping someone might be able to help me, or guide me in the right direction. I have received a parking fine from our friends Civil Enforcement Ltd. The fine is for parking in a car park for authorised vehicles only.
    Just for history, this car park is a GP surgery in a busy town, which I visit quite frequently for my job. I am well known by the practice staff. But always parked down the road in a pay and display as I have always been aware that parking was limited at the onsite car park. On the date of the supposed fine, I was asked to attend for an early morning meeting. So taking the chance, I parked in the car park, which most of the staff also park in. Off I went to the meeting.

    2 weeks later I receive the PCN through the post. I was a bit confused at first, wondering where is this?! Then checking my diary, itís the time and date of my meeting at the practice. So I made a visit to see the practice manager, where she said she would cancel it off, and add me to the list of registered authorised drivers. I thought nothing more of it...

    Fast forward 4 weeks...another PCN comes through the door, saying my fine has now increased to £100 for non payment... so I contact the practice manager again explaining the situation, who says ďI thought I had cancelled it... send me the number againĒ which I have done, and asking if she can let me know when she has done this... this was on Monday, and I have received no more emails from her...which doesnít fill me with confidence

    Iím now a bit worried as it looks like I am ignoring it, when really I thought this had been dealt with. So now I think my best bet is to appeal to CEL. After reading the newbie post, I have a template, however it mentions not naming the driver. But how do I attach evidence showing I had attended a meeting, and that I work there frequently, without that practically saying I was the driver? Or am I being a bit stupid? Are there any more appropriate templates better suited to this scenario?

    I was thinking of getting a statement from the practice manager too, do you think this will help my appeal? If anyone has any suggestions, or links that could help me, I would be most grateful.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 7th Dec 17, 8:25 PM
    • 18,119 Posts
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:25 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:25 PM
    at this stage I would not worry about adding the details about being authorised to park , just use the blue text template "as is" , or add a paragraph to say that the landowner has agreed to cancel the charge and this will be brought up in any future appeal or court case

    yes get the landowner to write a witness statement saying that they do not wish for this charge to go ahead and want it cancelled and that the driver had permission to park

    so fight them on 2 fronts
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 7th Dec 17, 8:33 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:33 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:33 PM
    Thank you Redx, I will do just that.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 7th Dec 17, 8:54 PM
    • 4,123 Posts
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    Half_way
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:54 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Dec 17, 8:54 PM
    Make sure you get any notice of cancellation in writing/email.
    Under the NHS parking principles the practice is responsible for the actions of the car parking company.

    As soon as you get it in writing( or email confirmation) you must get in touch with the parking company and tell them that they must cease and desist for pursuing this, and other than an apology, and confirmation that this matter is closed they should remove your data from their records
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 7th Dec 17, 9:02 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:02 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:02 PM
    Hello half_way, thank you for your reply. Would the email already sent from the practice manage saying she !!!8220;thought I had cancelled it!!!8221; be enough?
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 7th Dec 17, 9:23 PM
    • 4,123 Posts
    • 5,852 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:23 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:23 PM
    It should technically do it, as it would show the practice does not want the parking company to pursue it.
    p.s, its not a fine.

    Dear Cicvil Enfarcement, ltd, re parking charge notice #####
    please find included communication between myself as registered keeper of vehicle #### and the NHS practice ( name of practice) confirming that the parking charge is to be cancelled.
    As you have now been supplied with evidence that the NHS practice does not wish this parking charge to be pursued, you must now take the following action:
    1: to stop pursuing this parking charge with immediate effect
    2: to issue a full apology over the inconvenience you have caused
    3: aside from confirming this matter is now closed ( and the issuing of a full underacted apology) I do not want to hear from you again on this matter
    failure to comply with the above will result in a complaint to your trade association, as well as the DVLA, ICO, and any other relevant party.
    It may also result in action being taken against (PPC name) in the county court for a breach of the data protection act, and/or harassment.
    Failure to pay any judgement made against you may result on a CCJ, and could adversely affect your companies ability to obtain credit, and/or even trade
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 7th Dec 17, 9:34 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:34 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Dec 17, 9:34 PM
    Thank you so much Half_way, that!!!8217;s brilliant. And Redx too for your help. It is truly appreciated.
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 19th Dec 17, 5:04 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    • #8
    • 19th Dec 17, 5:04 PM
    • #8
    • 19th Dec 17, 5:04 PM
    Evening all.

    Thank you to those who gave me great advice. I did exactly what you told me. I emailed civil enforcement using their appeals option on their website. I made lots screenshots too.

    I sent this appeal within the 28 days stated on the 2nd letter. I have now received a letter dated 14th of December stating it is now too late to appeal.

    I have left all relevant paperwork at my office, so am unable to refer to exact dates at this time. But will do tomorrow. However, I am positive it stated I can still make an appeal within 28 days of that 2nd letter. They have also NOT given me a Popla code.

    Also once again the practice manager had stated it should be sorted.

    Once again I ask for your advice. What are my options? I feel they are not playing fair whatsoever.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Dec 17, 5:12 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 17, 5:12 PM
    • #9
    • 19th Dec 17, 5:12 PM
    Of course they don't pay fair, no parking firm does. They are called cowboys by this site and by MPs in Parliament.

    The way to get this cancelled is for the landowner to do it, she needs to get her finger out and she MUST stop dithering saying 'awww...I thought I'd cancelled it, sorry love...'

    Not good enough. Get assertive with the Practice manager and stand there holding up the Centre THIS WEEK, until she's made that call while you wait, not later. Make it clear you are not going away.

    If you don't, you will be sued. BTW on this forum it's never an option to pay CEL!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 19th Dec 17, 5:31 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    Thank you for your reply.

    I have fired off an email this evening and will follow it up tomorrow with a phone call to her. I highlighted the importance of this. Hopefully it will be heeded this time...but I am not hopeful.

    At this stage, if I get no progress with the practice manager, can I complain to BPA? Or send ( via email ) the original blue template on the newbie thread? Or perhaps too late for that one...?
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 19th Dec 17, 5:33 PM
    • 7,342 Posts
    • 9,787 Thanks
    beamerguy

    Also once again the practice manager had stated it should be sorted.

    Once again I ask for your advice. What are my options? I feel they are not playing fair whatsoever.
    Originally posted by Collingsisit
    You need to get the practice manager understanding
    the scam and the cowboys.

    "should be sorted" does NOT mean it has been sorted

    How about telling the practice manager that you will
    involve her in any case to explain what she means to a judge
    and bearing in mind she must tell the truth.

    "When the going gets tough etc ........"
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Dec 17, 5:40 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Actually you could just send the blue template to CEL, even though it's technically too late, and replace the larger paragraph about obtaining your data from the DVLA with a section telling CEL that a formal complaint has been made to the GP's surgery who have already contacted CEL to cancel it, so you expect to receive confirmation.

    You will be defending a court claim if the Practice Manager doesn't get her act together. Did you know NHS Car Parks are not even allowed by the Government guidance, to operate in a way that clearly incentivises a private firm to fine (i.e. income from PCNs only).

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/481556/HTM0703NovemberUpdated.pdf

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hospitals-still-allowing-private-parking-firms-to-prey-on-visitors-with-penalty-fines-10047797.html

    Applies to GP Surgery car parks too.

    However, if you end up defending a claim, you will need our advice to win it (we've never seen CEL beat us and have 99% win rate here across all PPCs, where a poster sticks around for advice through to their hearing). You'd be surprised, it's well worth fighting any PPC, it's defendable and people are so exhilarated when they win!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 19th Dec 17, 5:48 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    That is some very interesting reading! I will update you all tomorrow on the outcome of the phone all with the practice manager.
    Thank you both for your advice.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 19th Dec 17, 6:14 PM
    • 7,342 Posts
    • 9,787 Thanks
    beamerguy
    That is some very interesting reading! I will update you all tomorrow on the outcome of the phone all with the practice manager.
    Thank you both for your advice.
    Originally posted by Collingsisit
    Cannot wait to see what this practice manager now says

    Check out about CEL, they are so nasty they tried to
    rip off the staff at the Co-op after being sacked

    The practice manager needs to move her butt as you
    will not be the only one or the last where these cowboys
    are involved

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=cel
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 20th Dec 17, 1:58 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    Afternoon All...


    Well the practice manager seems to be non-contactable today. No reply to email or phone calls.
    I feel as this is going to be a dead end, as she usually replies pretty quickly to me. But regarding this matter, I don't seem to get any reply.


    So im wondering now what my options will be. I have done some extensive reading, and the NHS Parking principles were quite interesting. I don't know whether to write another appeal to CEL, stating the reason for delay with the 1st appeal was due to being told that the invoice would be cancelled (with proof in email form). I was told by the practice manager NOT to contact CEL, which has not put me in a good standing.


    Another tidbit of information. The manager stated she gets 3 cancellations per month. Does this have any sway or legal implications. As would they need to advertise this in anyway? In light of this, would they have a " genuine shopper clause" in the contract? As I have given them proof I had permission to park, and reasonable cause to park there.


    Perhaps im grasping at straws now...
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Dec 17, 2:01 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,072 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I don't know whether to write another appeal to CEL, stating the reason for delay with the 1st appeal was due to being told that the invoice would be cancelled (with proof in email form).
    Yes already said, do that, because CEL don't like to see the blue template appeal:

    Actually you could just send the blue template to CEL, even though it's technically too late, and replace the larger paragraph about obtaining your data from the DVLA with a section telling CEL that a formal complaint has been made to the GP's surgery who have already contacted CEL to cancel it, so you expect to receive confirmation.
    I was told by the practice manager NOT to contact CEL, which has not put me in a good standing.
    She is deluded. She is wrong. She seems to think it's OK that they can arrange the princely amount of 3 cancellations per month, and leave all other victims out in the cold to be sued. Not OK. It's also not OK that the Practice allows this at all, so a complaint to your MP would help.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 20th Dec 17, 2:33 PM
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    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    Thank you again Coupon-mad.


    Blue template has been sent via their online appeals, with the edit you advised. Shall see what happens with this one!


    I won't hold my breath that I'll hear from her. I just find it very poor, to dish out advice such as " don't contact them "


    If this does go to claim, I will be involving them in the proceedings. As I don't believe CEL will want to their client implicated in such a way.
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 21st Dec 17, 12:54 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    Just a quick update. Due to lack of reply from the practice manager, my manager is now piling on the pressure. See if this gets me anywhere!

    I have continued my reading, and found something interesting. According the BPAís code of conduct, they must have the written consent of the landowner to take the accused to court... this was read on another thread on another forum. Is this true? I will revisit BPA aswell to look over their wording.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 21st Dec 17, 1:00 PM
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    DoaM
    The written consent is in the form of wording within the contract between the GP Practice and CEL. It depends on what that says ... there doesn't need to be specific, individual consent on a case-by-case basis.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Collingsisit
    • By Collingsisit 21st Dec 17, 2:40 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Collingsisit
    I did wonder if that was the case. But thankyou for your reply.

    So I now have written confirmation from the practice manager ( after being told off from mine ) that the invoice has been cancelled and should expect no more letters from CEL.

    I live in hope.

    I will keep you updated of anymore developments. But thankyou all for your excellent advice.
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