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    • MSE Andrew
      Verified User verified user
    • By MSE Andrew Verified User verified user 6th Dec 17, 4:58 PM
    • 91Posts
    • 24Thanks
    MSE Andrew
    Add your feedback on energy supplier Outfox the Market
    • #1
    • 6th Dec 17, 4:58 PM
    Add your feedback on energy supplier Outfox the Market 6th Dec 17 at 4:58 PM
    This is a feedback thread on energy supplier

    Outfox the Market

    Please share your experience with other MoneySavers. Click reply to take part
    • Did your switch go smoothly?
    • Have you had problems since?
    • Is it easy to contact?
    The feedback comes as part of the

    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply.
Page 16
    • ben501
    • By ben501 1st Nov 18, 7:18 AM
    • 418 Posts
    • 693 Thanks
    ben501
    I'm having issues a month after my account went live.
    Originally posted by Organza_Lace

    Try leaving some negative feedback on a site like Trustpilot. You'll soon get their attention.


    Maybe if they spent as much time on customer services as they did on checking feedback...
    • spikeyman
    • By spikeyman 3rd Nov 18, 11:42 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    spikeyman
    Hi everyone, having had these comedians since July we have nothing but problems with switching, billing, and customer service, avoid them at all costs and do not believe the cheap energy club site either when they quote them as the cheapest. They are not and we found this out once we switched.

    What they actually do is play with the membership fee each month, (daily charge) depending on the last 2 years estimates of usage for that property, not the user, they get this from a 3rd party source then estimate your usage and charge the membership fee as they like.

    Our initial quote, why we switched, was a fee of £7.99 a month, we are low users. What they actually charged was at first £11.99 then after that £14.01 a month when questioned they gave the reason outlined above. The charge is equivalent to a daily cost and meant we would pay around £90 a year which makes them more expensive than other quotes, so beware and do your own figures.

    We received notification 2 months after we joined prices were going up and our membership charge would also increase to £15 a month £0.495 pence per day factor that in and we switched away from them as quickly as possible.

    They take DD as soon as you sign up, OK fair enough but then when you look at your bills, we have 6 bills for 3 months usage with them. You cannot understand how they work them out and, even though you supply meter readings they estimate the readings as they see fit.

    So far they took £269.15 from us, the bills from what we can calculate come to £151.25, they are showing a credit of only £70 in our account so where has the £47.90 gone. A complaint has been filed to ask them to supply a full statement but they do not respond so it looks like a regulator complaint will have to be made to force them to sort this out.

    Take care, anyone, thinking of switching to them. Cheap energy club sent us a quote we could save money but they showed a membership fee of £6.99 which is totally untrue see here and scroll to the bottom to see the fees they say they will charge but in practice they do not. https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/How-it-works.aspx

    Hope that will save someone the heartache and hassle of dealing with these people, its better to pay a little bit more and get the billing and service right.
    Makes the world go around eh...
    • Merlin139
    • By Merlin139 3rd Nov 18, 1:04 PM
    • 5,303 Posts
    • 20,754 Thanks
    Merlin139
    Hi everyone, having had these comedians since July we have nothing but problems with switching, billing, and customer service, avoid them at all costs and do not believe the cheap energy club site either when they quote them as the cheapest. They are not and we found this out once we switched.

    What they actually do is play with the membership fee each month, (daily charge) depending on the last 2 years estimates of usage for that property, not the user, they get this from a 3rd party source then estimate your usage and charge the membership fee as they like.

    How many kWh's of Electricity have you been using each year?

    Our initial quote, why we switched, was a fee of £7.99 a month, we are low users. What they actually charged was at first £11.99 then after that £14.01 a month when questioned they gave the reason outlined above. The charge is equivalent to a daily cost and meant we would pay around £90 a year which makes them more expensive than other quotes, so beware and do your own figures.

    We received notification 2 months after we joined prices were going up and our membership charge would also increase to £15 a month £0.495 pence per day factor that in and we switched away from them as quickly as possible.

    They take DD as soon as you sign up, OK fair enough but then when you look at your bills, we have 6 bills for 3 months usage with them. You cannot understand how they work them out and, even though you supply meter readings they estimate the readings as they see fit.

    So far they took £269.15 from us, the bills from what we can calculate come to £151.25, they are showing a credit of only £70 in our account so where has the £47.90 gone. A complaint has been filed to ask them to supply a full statement but they do not respond so it looks like a regulator complaint will have to be made to force them to sort this out.

    How many kWh's of Electricity and Gas have you used in your time with OFTM?

    Take care, anyone, thinking of switching to them. Cheap energy club sent us a quote we could save money but they showed a membership fee of £6.99 which is totally untrue see here and scroll to the bottom to see the fees they say they will charge but in practice they do not. https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/How-it-works.aspx

    Hope that will save someone the heartache and hassle of dealing with these people, its better to pay a little bit more and get the billing and service right.
    Originally posted by spikeyman
    Electricity usage is what determines you Membership rate so if you use more then 2399 kWh's of Electricity each year then you will not be on the Low user rate.

    I joined OFTM 23/02/18 on a Fixed rate as a Low User my quote was for 2300 kWh for Electricity and 9500 kWh for Gas. This should have put me on the LOW User membership fee but they started me on the next level. Low user being 0 to 2399 kWh per year. In the last 4 years I have averaged 2252 kWh per year.

    When I noticed that I was being charged a higher membership rate I contacted them and pointed this out to them. They base the charge on something they call the Flow Rate. Having lived in my house for 16 years I have over 300 readings of my meters to back up my usage. When they checked the figures and saw that the flow rate confirmed with my figures they agreed that my membership should be reduced to the Low User rate which they backdated to the start of my time with them.

    I have provided a minimum of 1 reading per month as requested and if it is submitted on the date of my bill they produce accurate bills. If its a few days before they estimate the last few days.

    The best way to confirm your usage is to provide your supplier with a minimum of 1 reading per month. This will build up an accurate picture of your usage.

    I would also point out that I have been able to communicate by Live chat very quickly when I have had a question. The last one being about when SMETS 2 smart meters would be available. The answer was that they are testing now and expect them to be available within 6 to 12 months. Not that I need one as I am able to monitor my energy usage now so it is of no benefit to me to get a Smart Meter.
    • worried jim
    • By worried jim 3rd Nov 18, 1:11 PM
    • 9,658 Posts
    • 14,869 Thanks
    worried jim
    Been with them since June. No issues. Website is basic but does the job, I've used live chat once with no problems. Cheapest gas and electricity I've had for a number of years and I change every year.
    "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein
    • VoucherMan
    • By VoucherMan 3rd Nov 18, 1:39 PM
    • 2,499 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    VoucherMan
    do not believe the cheap energy club site either when they quote them as the cheapest. They are not and we found this out once we switched.
    Originally posted by spikeyman
    I'd suggest letting MSE know of this slight error, but I've already tried that and it appears to have been completely ignored.

    Electricity usage is what determines you Membership rate
    Originally posted by Merlin139
    No it's not. It's based on Estimated usage.
    https://outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Terms-and-conditions.aspx

    3.7

    Under the Whack! Tariff, the unit rate element is fixed. However, membership fees may still vary depending on usage and we reserve the right to review and amend these charges where necessary. The monthly membership fee is based on your estimated annual consumption. (EAC).
    • Merlin139
    • By Merlin139 3rd Nov 18, 2:38 PM
    • 5,303 Posts
    • 20,754 Thanks
    Merlin139
    Electricity usage is what determines you Membership rate so if you use more then 2399 kWh's of Electricity each year then you will not be on the Low user rate.
    Originally posted by Merlin139
    3.7 Under the Whack! Tariff, the unit rate element is fixed. However, membership fees may still vary depending on usage and we reserve the right to review and amend these charges where necessary. The monthly membership fee is based on your estimated annual consumption. (EAC). This is an industry provided figure based on a rolling two-year consumption history and this can result in your membership band being amended at any point.


    Your Estimated Annual Consumption(EAC) will be effected by Electricity Usage so it will determine your membership rate!
    • Organza_Lace
    • By Organza_Lace 3rd Nov 18, 2:46 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 1,786 Thanks
    Organza_Lace
    So....now they have cancelled my direct debit. No explanation as to why.
    • wavelets
    • By wavelets 3rd Nov 18, 3:15 PM
    • 561 Posts
    • 244 Thanks
    wavelets
    So....now they have cancelled my direct debit. No explanation as to why.
    Originally posted by Organza_Lace
    It is not usually possible for any supplier to cancel a payers direct debit instruction.
    (It is, of couse, possible for a supplier to fail to collect against a DDI ... but that does not cancel the DDI ... unless they fail to collect for 13 months when the DDI will then fall dormant)

    Only the payer (or exceptionally the payer's bank) can normally cancel a direct debit instruction.

    The exception is when a supplier indicates to the payer's bank that a collection successfully made is the final collection (e.g. if you subscribe to a 12 monthly publication, or in the case of an energy supplier, that they are aware of you having switched away and they are confident there will be no more need for another collection e.g on settlement of a final bill by DD)
    That then effectively instructs the bank to cancel the DDI
    It is not usual for either the supplier or the bank to notify the payer when this occurs, presumably as one would expect the payer to be aware it was to be the final payment, as per the terms of the contract they originally agreed.

    I would urge you to contact your bank and ask them to clarify who, why and when your DDI was cancelled.
    Last edited by wavelets; 03-11-2018 at 3:21 PM.
    • VoucherMan
    • By VoucherMan 3rd Nov 18, 3:42 PM
    • 2,499 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    VoucherMan
    3.7 Under the Whack! Tariff, the unit rate element is fixed. However, membership fees may still vary depending on usage and we reserve the right to review and amend these charges where necessary. The monthly membership fee is based on your estimated annual consumption. (EAC). This is an industry provided figure based on a rolling two-year consumption history and this can result in your membership band being amended at any point.


    Your Estimated Annual Consumption(EAC) will be effected by Electricity Usage so it will determine your membership rate!
    Originally posted by Merlin139
    The thing is, dress it up any way you want, it's an estimate.

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/decision-estimated-annual-cost-domestic-consumers
    We have decided to amend the methodology that suppliers and some price comparison sites are required to follow when estimating consumersí annual costs. The change will allow suppliers and comparison sites to come up with their own methodologies for estimating a consumerís annual costs,
    Which of course has little relevance to Outfox as they're using these arbitrary figures for screwing the customers deciding what tariff monthly fee they can get away with.


    Just because the figure is 'industry approved', does not in any way mean it's accurate.
    • New builds won't have 2 years of history so will (possibly) be charged an average figure. For some this will be well above their actual usages.
    • People moving house will inherit the previous occupants usage history, which may be much higher than theirs.
    • Other factors cause people to reduce consumption, but they will still be charged based on an estimate derived from historical usage.
    The last point should be emphasised. If you used 2300kWh in the last 12 months, and 2200kWh in the 12 months before that, what would you're estimated usage be now?

    • 2250kWh (average)
    • 2400kWh (continuing the same level of increased usage)
    • 2450kWh (stick them in the next price band, there's nothing they can do about it)
    • 2200kWh (it was a temporary blip and their usage will return to the lower level this year)
    Maybe there is an agreed method to calculate it, but I can't find it, and the Ofgem report suggests that companies can more or less make it up as they go along.
    • VoucherMan
    • By VoucherMan 3rd Nov 18, 4:08 PM
    • 2,499 Posts
    • 4,996 Thanks
    VoucherMan
    Cheapest gas and electricity I've had for a number of years and I change every year.
    Originally posted by worried jim

    And for most they still are, although I think I've seen comments that they're no longer the cheapest for some. But because of their pricing structure there's no guarantee they'll still be the cheapest in months to come. They've already had to back down once after a backlash when they tried to increase the monthly fees. It wouldn't surprise me if they're fervently searching for some other loophole they can use to increase the price.


    The issue for me has been that it's not a fixed price as advertised. The price is still good in comparison, and kudos to the person who came up with the devious idea, but I'd prefer to be with a supplier who's open and honest about their pricing, even if it means paying a few pounds more.
    • Hazzanet
    • By Hazzanet 3rd Nov 18, 4:39 PM
    • 1,645 Posts
    • 927 Thanks
    Hazzanet
    It is not usually possible for any supplier to cancel a payers direct debit instruction.
    (It is, of couse, possible for a supplier to fail to collect against a DDI ... but that does not cancel the DDI ... unless they fail to collect for 13 months when the DDI will then fall dormant)
    Originally posted by wavelets
    It is possible for a supplier to cancel the DDI using either a 19 transaction code with the final payment (as you note) and they also have the option to send an 0C transaction code without any payment to cancel down the DDI.

    It's possible that this is human error and someone has clicked something that has sent an 0C code down on your account. As Wavelets says, best ask the bank to find out whether it was OTM that cancelled it their end.
    4358
    • Organza_Lace
    • By Organza_Lace 3rd Nov 18, 8:41 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 1,786 Thanks
    Organza_Lace
    It is not usually possible for any supplier to cancel a payers direct debit instruction.
    (It is, of couse, possible for a supplier to fail to collect against a DDI ... but that does not cancel the DDI ... unless they fail to collect for 13 months when the DDI will then fall dormant)

    Only the payer (or exceptionally the payer's bank) can normally cancel a direct debit instruction.

    The exception is when a supplier indicates to the payer's bank that a collection successfully made is the final collection (e.g. if you subscribe to a 12 monthly publication, or in the case of an energy supplier, that they are aware of you having switched away and they are confident there will be no more need for another collection e.g on settlement of a final bill by DD)
    That then effectively instructs the bank to cancel the DDI
    It is not usual for either the supplier or the bank to notify the payer when this occurs, presumably as one would expect the payer to be aware it was to be the final payment, as per the terms of the contract they originally agreed.

    I would urge you to contact your bank and ask them to clarify who, why and when your DDI was cancelled.
    Originally posted by wavelets

    I have, this is the response i got from the live chat.

    Thank you for confirming them for me. Just stand by while I look into this. This won't be long.

    I am afraid yes the direct debit is cancelled

    shalll i reactivate the direct debit
    Eh? Im still not the wiser but i have some assurance it might be ok.

    Ok i have requested my team to reactivate it for you and 1 st of each month
    Why, just why?
    • martyp
    • By martyp 4th Nov 18, 10:52 AM
    • 774 Posts
    • 107 Thanks
    martyp
    Just wanted to add so far so good having gone to OFTM. Gas switched in August but electricity switched in September as it was in the Iresa to Octopus transition. A couple of minor bugs in the online portal with DD not showing and error page on usage but it was set up and working quickly and everything seems to be up to date in there. Have made a few queries via the chat and e-mail and had responses on e-mail generally about a day later and charges seem to be correct although haven't over-analysed they're definitely cheap. I have been notified already of a price rise from 1st November of 7% which is about £36 a year for me but still cheaper than all the other tariffs out there so happy to take the risk on the variable tariff as if no more significant increases especially over winter it could still work out cheaper than a fixed tariff possibly overall.
    • dont_use_vistaprint
    • By dont_use_vistaprint 5th Nov 18, 11:55 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    dont_use_vistaprint
    I am really not sure why this practice causes so much concern? Energy suppliers have to pay their wholesale suppliers in advance of supply. Looking at my bank account, I currently pay for my house insurance; TV Licence; mobile phone; Sky TV; car insurance in advance of supply, so why not energy? The benefit to the consumer is that the supplier does not have to borrow so much and should be able to offer lower prices as a result.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    You generally pay fixed / contracted service fees in advance and additional / usage in arrears. That's how insurance , tv and telecoms works.

    How can you recognise revenue that's based on metered usage, its unacceptable.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 5th Nov 18, 12:58 PM
    • 6,593 Posts
    • 4,230 Thanks
    Hengus
    You generally pay fixed / contracted service fees in advance and additional / usage in arrears. That's how insurance , tv and telecoms works.

    How can you recognise revenue that's based on metered usage, its unacceptable.
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    I disagree. When you sign up with an energy supplier, you provide projected annual consumption figures. The supplier, in turn, comes up with an annual cost and usually sets the monthly DD at 1/12 of the annual cost. It then makes you a contract offer. The contract terms and conditions may have clauses like 'the first month's payment will be taken on the first day of supply' and 'there must be sufficient credit in the account to cover the next month's estimated consumption'.

    There is no arm twisting going on here. We all have 14 days to read and accept the contract terms and conditions, or walk away. If a supplier is asking for cash up front to avoid borrowing which, in turn, enables it to offer below market average prices, then I can happily live with that in the knowledge that my credit balance is 100% protected by Ofgem. You, of course, have the right to think otherwise.
    • Organza_Lace
    • By Organza_Lace 5th Nov 18, 3:02 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 1,786 Thanks
    Organza_Lace
    So today i get an email...

    I am looking at your account and can see that you have a direct debit set up to come out on the 1st of each month for amount £118.80.

    However, our direct debit collection system is picking up an error with the bank details you have provided for your direct debit and we not received payment.
    Jesus wept they have taken out one payment theres no error, they are just idiots!
    • admars
    • By admars 9th Nov 18, 12:45 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    admars
    I recently switch to OutFox the market from Avro, so far so good, no problems unlike those that BG gave me when I left them for Avro.
    • tomhw
    • By tomhw 10th Nov 18, 7:17 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    tomhw
    Terrible service
    I contacted OTM when I moved in to a new property, shortly afterwards they started supplying energy to my old home. When contacted about this they agreed to rectify but a month later had not done so. In all their communications they use a strange hybrid of my old and new addresses and despite repeatedly 'phoning to tell them this they have not changed it, neither have they started supplying my new home nor stopped supplying my old one.

    It is the devil's own job finding a 'phone number for them and whomever you speak to rarely seems to be listening. Emails generally go unanswered and are to generic addresses rather than named individuals.

    Clearly this is only one experience and I thought both the price and the green ethos were worth pursuing but I would not recommend them to anybody.
    • jono1975
    • By jono1975 13th Nov 18, 12:55 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    jono1975
    Price Increase December 2018
    Just had this email from OFTM, damn I only just changed from Bulb a week ago! Gas is where they hit you most, espeicially with winter coming and that's the key one then. Looks like they got the decimal places wrong!

    From 13 December 2018 your electricity unit rate will change from 0.1048p/kWh to 0.1137p/kWh Your gas unit rate will change from 0.0362p/kWh to 0.0390p/kWh

    Please note, monthly membership prices will remain the same.
    Last edited by jono1975; 13-11-2018 at 1:09 PM.
    • Carltonbp
    • By Carltonbp 13th Nov 18, 1:01 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Carltonbp
    I've only been with them 2 months and already my annual bill has gone up by more than £60
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