Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 4th Dec 17, 5:57 PM
    • 2,479Posts
    • 1,561Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Exit brexit?
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 17, 5:57 PM
    Exit brexit? 4th Dec 17 at 5:57 PM
    Proving to be a bit more difficult than imagined, isn’t it?

    We’re a special case. So is London, so is Scotland, so is Gibraltar.

    What’s the likelihood of it just not happening at all?
Page 17
    • RikM
    • By RikM 12th Oct 18, 8:57 AM
    • 642 Posts
    • 359 Thanks
    RikM
    Yes, though the general direction feels like "down". I can't see any good coming of it until we rejoin, at which point it will probably be on the same terms as everyone else, no special treatment like at present. That's probably a good thing.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Oct 18, 9:25 AM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 1,561 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Yes, though the general direction feels like "down". I can't see any good coming of it until we rejoin, at which point it will probably be on the same terms as everyone else, no special treatment like at present. That's probably a good thing.
    Originally posted by RikM
    Have faith. On the 29th March, the waters of the Irish Sea will be divided, allowing us open access to European markets for tariff free milk powder and sugar beet derived honey substitute. And £350 million a week for the nhs. The sheughs dividing Armagh from Louth I’m less sure about.

    The weather !!!! here is Boris Johnson. Any chance of brexit being a success and he’d have been right in there with a challenge to Teresa. Didn’t happen - the lady’s for burning.
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 12-10-2018 at 9:32 AM.
    “What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Oct 18, 9:26 AM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 1,561 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Yoicks. Is weather rooster acceptable?
    “What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 12th Oct 18, 9:58 AM
    • 781 Posts
    • 435 Thanks
    x12yhp
    I can't believe it, someone else that thinks remaining would be the status quo

    The eu's end aim is to become one country controlled by the germans. (Pretty much the same as the two world wars that the germans waged on everyone else), hence the stated aim of "ever closer union". As such, things would evolve. Yes, at the moment we have various vetoes, which would be removed as more votes go to qualified majority. Our rebate would have been removed, and the membership fee would have increased massively due to the amount of poorer countries they want to bring into the club.

    At the moment we can refuse to join the euro, that would also be removed, there would come a day when they would say join the euro or leave. They have already said they want everyone in the euro by 2025. Our economy has not yet been destroyed by the euro like that of Greece, Portugal, Italy etc, even France is suffering, they would have needed to rectify that.

    No, staying in is not the status quo, far from it, at least when we are out we are out and we know where we are heading. That would not have been the case had we stayed in.
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/status%20quo

    Status quo would have been retained by remain, by definition. By leaving, we have upturned the apple cart. Not sure what language you are using to see it otherwise.

    As per another, we do NOT know where we are heading. We have a bunch of people who led the population out. Turns out they had no power and arguably didn't have the facts. On the flip side, we have a load of organisations with a load of facts telling us how bad it would be - they were villified and to be ignored (something that tends to happen, anytime someone clever says something sensible that defies what popularity wishes to be). You may think you know where you want to be heading but the simple reality is that it isn't happening that way and was never going to. In the short term there is a storm that may well pain us for decades to come, before we can hope to get anywhere near where you think we want to go.

    I am not defying brexit or wish a revote, I have given up on that. But I think anyone who thinks that crashing out is an acceptable scenario should be marked as too naive to ever vote on anything of consequence.
    Always overestimating...
    • donnac2558
    • By donnac2558 12th Oct 18, 10:53 AM
    • 2,562 Posts
    • 2,173 Thanks
    donnac2558
    Sorry but I just had to




    https://youtu.be/LQiOA7euaYA
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Oct 18, 11:47 AM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 1,561 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Sorry but I just had to




    https://youtu.be/LQiOA7euaYA
    Originally posted by donnac2558
    “What have I done?”

    Indeed.
    “What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Oct 18, 1:46 PM
    • 17,582 Posts
    • 10,662 Thanks
    motorguy
    You also seem to be ignoring that, the NI population did NOT vote out. We wanted to stay. And somehow the idiots who are trying to pretend they speak for us, are also ignoring that.
    Originally posted by x12yhp
    Uh huh. And last time i checked, we were part of the UK and the majority of the population voted to leave. I dont remember any clauses whereby if one region voted to stay they got that option?

    And we didnt all want to stay. Who's speaking for others now?
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Oct 18, 1:47 PM
    • 17,582 Posts
    • 10,662 Thanks
    motorguy

    The whole thing is a stupid mess. The DUP are possibly the biggest risk to the unity of the UK in decades. They try to claim unity is their goal but they do no more than try to bully and threaten. If they don't get what they want, they will happily sink everything. If they can't get what they want to avoid an internal border (or similar), they will happily force a situation where a hard border to the EU is inevitable. They threaten to put us into a position where there is very real appetite to leave the UK and return to Europe, as part of Ireland. They threaten to alienate the UK population by ruining the brexit THEY wanted. They threaten to have a local population which wishes to leave the Union and a Union which would be happy to see us go. They could achieve what bombs, bullets and republicans could never do! Failing that, they threaten to rip Northern Ireland into two pieces (and who knows, to take us back to the worst of the bad times).
    Originally posted by x12yhp
    HOWEVER - i totally agree with you on this.
    Last edited by motorguy; 12-10-2018 at 1:51 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Oct 18, 1:51 PM
    • 17,582 Posts
    • 10,662 Thanks
    motorguy
    I can't believe it, someone else that thinks remaining would be the status quo

    The eu's end aim is to become one country controlled by the germans. (Pretty much the same as the two world wars that the germans waged on everyone else), hence the stated aim of "ever closer union". As such, things would evolve. Yes, at the moment we have various vetoes, which would be removed as more votes go to qualified majority. Our rebate would have been removed, and the membership fee would have increased massively due to the amount of poorer countries they want to bring into the club.

    At the moment we can refuse to join the euro, that would also be removed, there would come a day when they would say join the euro or leave. They have already said they want everyone in the euro by 2025. Our economy has not yet been destroyed by the euro like that of Greece, Portugal, Italy etc, even France is suffering, they would have needed to rectify that.

    No, staying in is not the status quo, far from it, at least when we are out we are out and we know where we are heading. That would not have been the case had we stayed in.
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    As i said at the time - the UK being in the EU is like being in an abusive marriage. It may be difficult to leave and there may be uncertainty in the short to medium term but its better than staying in an abusive relationship whereby they were happy to take our money and treated us at very best with disdain.

    !!!! that!
    Last edited by motorguy; 12-10-2018 at 6:25 PM.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Oct 18, 1:55 PM
    • 17,582 Posts
    • 10,662 Thanks
    motorguy
    We haven’t a clue where we’re heading.

    There is no evidence for any of the above. Brexit is starting to look like some wild religious sect, where outlandish beliefs are promulgated, based only on hope, faith and the fact that others believe it, the tenets written on the side of a bus instead of tablets of stone.
    Originally posted by qwert yuiop
    So better just to stay in the EU and get sucked in to pumping in even more money to prop up a bureaucratic monolith?

    The reason the heads of the EU are giving the UK such a hard time is because they know there is a risk that other countries will leave and the whole thing will fall apart (particularly the richer countries). Its all a lot more fragile than they would have us believe.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Oct 18, 2:23 PM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 1,561 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    So better just to stay in the EU and get sucked in to pumping in even more money to prop up a bureaucratic monolith?

    The reason the heads of the EU are giving the UK such a hard time is because they know there is a risk that other countries will leave and the whole thing will fall apart (particularly the richer countries). Its all a lot more fragile than they would have us believe.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Isn’t the most successful trading bloc in human history worth a bit of investment? I believe we’re going to realise what a bargain it was when our access is impaired. A cornerstone of the long peace since 1945, how expensive are Franco German conflicts, which came up with monotonous regularity in the previous 70 years

    Who’s giving who a hard time? Britain declared its intention to leave - they didn’t force us out. Let’s have an example of this hard time.
    Perhaps they’re only doing what they’re entitled to do - protect their own interests. Let’s face it - they’re protecting us from our own stupidity. Hard brexit means an end to all the ease of doing business across European frontiers ( me included), which particularly for us in NI is vital. As far as I can see, this decision was made by those who have little concept of commercial reality.

    Oh - and how do you know how fragile it is? Since we’re not supposed to know?
    Last edited by qwert yuiop; 12-10-2018 at 2:45 PM.
    “What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Oct 18, 2:43 PM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 1,561 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    As i said at the time - the UK being in the UK is like being in an abusive marriage..
    !
    Originally posted by motorguy
    How does this work, exactly?
    “What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare
    • donnac2558
    • By donnac2558 12th Oct 18, 6:19 PM
    • 2,562 Posts
    • 2,173 Thanks
    donnac2558
    Trade between NI and GB wouldn't be affected - it'd still be a part of the UK and NI goods would be freely exportable to GB and vice versa. There would have to be checks on freight traffic over the Irish sea from NI to GB sea/air ports but all that could be done in the background with minimal extra hassle to regular people - unlike customs posts on a land border.

    Brexit is a sound idea - if free trade and a degree of standards harmonisation was all that the EU was about - as in the EEC days - it would be great but it is getting more and more federal all the time. Britain is better out of it and so will be Ireland - but British withdrawal is a pre-requisite for Irish withdrawal down the line.
    Originally posted by Suplex Backbreaker

    Sorry but Ireland will never ever leave the EU, they get loads of money from the EU. Back in the day before they joined the EU, the Republic was like a third world country! I remember visiting with my SIL when she was over from Canada and she was shocked at the poverty you could see openly on the street compared to N.I. Visiting this year she thought it more prosperous than the North. Their farmers get big subsidies galore for a start.
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 12th Oct 18, 7:36 PM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 1,561 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    Sorry but Ireland will never ever leave the EU, they get loads of money from the EU. Back in the day before they joined the EU, the Republic was like a third world country! I remember visiting with my SIL when she was over from Canada and she was shocked at the poverty you could see openly on the street compared to N.I. Visiting this year she thought it more prosperous than the North. Their farmers get big subsidies galore for a start.
    Originally posted by donnac2558
    They don’t. They’ve been net contributors for the last two years. Farmers here get exactly the same subsidies.
    Their economy is based on their status as a low corporation tax economy.
    “What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare
    • RikM
    • By RikM 13th Oct 18, 10:17 AM
    • 642 Posts
    • 359 Thanks
    RikM
    As i said at the time - the UK being in the EU is like being in an abusive marriage. It may be difficult to leave and there may be uncertainty in the short to medium term but its better than staying in an abusive relationship whereby they were happy to take our money and treated us at very best with disdain.

    !!!! that!
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Um. By taking that analogy, I'd have to put the UK in the role of the abusive spouse... Always putting our partner down, nitpicking, placing everything in a negative light, trying to get it all our own way...

    Maybe the EU should divorce us and sue for maintenance...?
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 13th Oct 18, 2:14 PM
    • 781 Posts
    • 435 Thanks
    x12yhp
    So better just to stay in the EU and get sucked in to pumping in even more money to prop up a bureaucratic monolith?

    The reason the heads of the EU are giving the UK such a hard time is because they know there is a risk that other countries will leave and the whole thing will fall apart (particularly the richer countries). Its all a lot more fragile than they would have us believe.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    This is the normal, conspiracy theory, view. The EU is, ultimately, an evil empire in waiting. Hitler has been planning this all along and his spawn are secretly putting our funds to use in a century long plan to have Germany control the world. I have a lot of German friends and colleagues and this is as insulting as it is laughable.

    There are going to be exceptions, and the most vocal tend to be them. However, most casual brexit voters I have spoken with find a lot of surprises when the impact of the EU, on them, is looked at properly. Many of my parents generation will find surprise that, for instance, their kids enjoy and have enjoyed perks which have been paid for by the EU. My PhD and years of research was funded by the EU (in which time the UK bodies were restructuring and unable to sort their head from their feet - lets see how they manage on their own). Much of the university work which went on around me was the same. Many of those who voted out from rural back grounds didn't recognise that their subsidies were EU derived (and don't say they will be picked up by the UK, you DONT KNOW that). We have had infrastructural upgrades thanks to the EU. The EU makes big contribution to training grants and similar. These things are all up in the air. There is no guarantee of this status quo remaining. In the even of a no deal, you can be certain that many things will fall apart whilst we fight to maintain critical systems - that's just how big projects, done in a rush, work.

    Sorry but brexit was ill considered. It is happening and so be it but it is pure stupidity to suggest that people voted, having good confidence in what they were getting. No one has any confidence NOW. At the time of voting, they had a mix of honey and bile poured in their ears, little of it was based in fact. The sky is always going to be blue, cloud cover does nothing more than obscure it.
    Always overestimating...
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 13th Oct 18, 6:36 PM
    • 17,582 Posts
    • 10,662 Thanks
    motorguy
    This is the normal, conspiracy theory, view. The EU is, ultimately, an evil empire in waiting. Hitler has been planning this all along and his spawn are secretly putting our funds to use in a century long plan to have Germany control the world. I have a lot of German friends and colleagues and this is as insulting as it is laughable.
    Originally posted by x12yhp
    Get over yourself.

    Where did i say the Germans were looking to take over?

    However it a commonly held view that if the EU give the UK concessions it could cause other countries to seek to leave.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/10/09/this-is-why-the-e-u-is-being-so-tough-about-brexit/?utm_term=.44d3fe3fb8ae

    There is a fear of a domino effect if the UK leaves and is seen to get preferential terms.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 13th Oct 18, 6:38 PM
    • 17,582 Posts
    • 10,662 Thanks
    motorguy

    you can be certain that many things will fall apart whilst we fight to maintain critical systems
    Originally posted by x12yhp
    And wheres your evidence of that? More scaremongering... "best stay in the EU just in case"
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • qwert yuiop
    • By qwert yuiop 14th Oct 18, 8:37 AM
    • 2,479 Posts
    • 1,561 Thanks
    qwert yuiop
    According to this morning’s observer (it’s free on line, moneysavers), Arlene is preparing for us to crash out and the sums in parliament show there is no way Teresa will get a deal passed.

    Any ideas where this would leave us in just five months’ time?

    Will it all be delayed, possibly pending another election? That’s my shaky unsupported speculative prediction.

    One aspect I’m more confident about is that border control, with all the open trade and transit that has grown up over the last 20 years, and all the money that is dependent on it, is not enforceable.
    “What means that trump?” Timon of Athens by William Shakespeare
    • x12yhp
    • By x12yhp 16th Oct 18, 7:55 AM
    • 781 Posts
    • 435 Thanks
    x12yhp
    And wheres your evidence of that? More scaremongering... "best stay in the EU just in case"
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Hells bells man, where is your common sense!? This is one of the biggest administrative exercises in the history of our country! Are you seriously telling me you think that there is time and man power to get everything done, miss nothing, and do it on schedule!?

    For the love of god, we struggle to get things done on schedule when times are good!!
    Always overestimating...
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,582Posts Today

8,401Users online

Martin's Twitter