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  • FIRST POST
    • neobrainless
    • By neobrainless 4th Dec 17, 1:15 PM
    • 24Posts
    • 1Thanks
    neobrainless
    Am I missing something about this finance plan?
    • #1
    • 4th Dec 17, 1:15 PM
    Am I missing something about this finance plan? 4th Dec 17 at 1:15 PM
    Hi,
    I've started up as a self-employed carpenter/odd-jobs type person, and have let several jobs go due to not having a van yet. I'm partly waiting to hit the turn-around point on my current car lease (next 2/3 months should get me there), but also I've been trying to get my head around the best way to finance it, as my current income is scarcely consistent, and part of the affordability is unknown extra work from having a van.

    My latest idea is to extend my mortgage (or remortgage) to cover the cost outright, as by my calculations this works out cheaper than my current deal per month (and that's the only thing that matters at the moment really), and allows me to over-pay when the extra-work comes in, hopefully still clearing everything in sensible time.

    My current LTV is under 60%, so there's plenty of headroom on the mortgage.

    Oh, and I'd prefer to buy the van outright as I am not too good at looking after the appearance of vehicles (scratches and mud everywhere), and would rather not have another tied-up 3 years of trying my best to keep it super clean!

    Am I crazy? I appreciate to total amount I'll pay long term could end up being more, but my plan is to make over-payments, and last time I was earning enough to have spare cash I was very good at actually doing it, so I'm then just waiting on business picking up...

    Cheers!
Page 2
    • neobrainless
    • By neobrainless 5th Dec 17, 1:04 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neobrainless
    Op, your missing the point you lose a lot money in depreciation let me give you an example of a work mate who was boasting about his nissan leaf

    He bought a nissan leaf for £25,000, two and a half years later he had to sell due to personal circumstances sold it for £9,000 so he lost £16,000 which is around £500+ a month Plus the cost of the electirc he used over them years which was around £1,500 but he just saw the fuel saving and jumped on the bandwagon

    so thats what you are doing you are looking at the saving you can see ie fuel but you are not looking at the overall cost

    I have an astra which costs me around 15p a mile, the nissan leaf example above cost the lad 50p a mile (£16,000+£1,500/30,000 miles driven)

    car dealers are many things but they are not a charity, they are the masters of doing all the calculations long before the sell any car/van

    hope this helps
    Originally posted by ratrace

    When trying to correct someone's financial planning it helps to get the maths right - Either your friend was doing FAR more than 30,000 miles, or was on an awful electricity tariff. Cost to do that should be under £1000 at worst.

    Depreciation is a concern, as with any new vehicle. But the cross-over point is far better for electric vehicles due to the huge savings on maintenance and fuel costs. But my plan would be to keep the van regardless of business success as a van is useful, especially one that is super cheap to run.

    Hitting up the hippies is harder to do with a diesel as after diesel-gate people are onto the fact that they ain't all that eco-wise. It's still an option, but it's not a great one from where I'm sitting.
    • ratrace
    • By ratrace 5th Dec 17, 2:02 PM
    • 552 Posts
    • 371 Thanks
    ratrace
    When trying to correct someone's financial planning it helps to get the maths right - Either your friend was doing FAR more than 30,000 miles, or was on an awful electricity tariff. Cost to do that should be under £1000 at worst.

    Depreciation is a concern, as with any new vehicle. But the cross-over point is far better for electric vehicles due to the huge savings on maintenance and fuel costs. But my plan would be to keep the van regardless of business success as a van is useful, especially one that is super cheap to run.

    Hitting up the hippies is harder to do with a diesel as after diesel-gate people are onto the fact that they ain't all that eco-wise. It's still an option, but it's not a great one from where I'm sitting.
    Originally posted by neobrainless
    it was a mix of charging at home and charging at the service stations
    £1,500 / 30,000 = 0.05p average (not including dep)

    also in winter the range in real world is a lot less due to the cold weather

    anyway all the best with it hope it works out for you
    Last edited by ratrace; 05-12-2017 at 2:12 PM.
    People are caught up in an egotistic artificial rat race to display a false image to society. We want the biggest house, fanciest car, and we don't mind paying the sky high mortgage to put up that show. We sacrifice our biggest assets our health and time, We feel happy when we see people look up to us and see how successful we are”

    Rat Race
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 5th Dec 17, 2:37 PM
    • 7,243 Posts
    • 6,510 Thanks
    Herzlos
    How much space do you need? There are nice looking estates that are as big as the smaller vans, for a lot cheaper.

    Unless you're needing it to store sheet material, you shouldn't notice much difference.

    Have you thought about hiring a van for the jobs you need a van for? A few of the joiners round here seem to do that.
    • ciderboy2009
    • By ciderboy2009 5th Dec 17, 2:55 PM
    • 410 Posts
    • 373 Thanks
    ciderboy2009
    At the end of the day - you're in Bristol.

    Looking at the current & previous mayors policies it won't be long before the only way that anybody can get around the city will be on foot or by bike (although the Metrobust will also be there at some point - hopefully).

    How about starting with an electric bike & trailer? Much cheaper plus you don't have to worry about any of the silly road laws!

    On a serious note - if you're good at what you do then your name will be passed around regardless off gimmicks. It might even already be in the list of recommendations I'll shortly be working through for my new stairs & kitchen.

    However, if you turned up to quote for me in your electric van (I would probably come across as one of the people you're aiming at) then I would run a mile.

    I want somebody who is good at what they do - not somebody who is good with gimmicks.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 5th Dec 17, 3:06 PM
    • 5,156 Posts
    • 6,923 Thanks
    spadoosh
    Actually, once you include the large fuel bill and maintenance costs, a cheap van doesn't work out cheaper necessarily, just in up front cost. Once you get past year 4/5 (probably less if I could be bothered to do a more robust calculation) the electric van is MASSIVELY cheaper.
    Originally posted by neobrainless
    How long did it take you to earn the first £18,000 profit?
    Don't be angry!
    • neobrainless
    • By neobrainless 5th Dec 17, 6:48 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neobrainless
    At the end of the day - you're in Bristol.

    However, if you turned up to quote for me in your electric van (I would probably come across as one of the people you're aiming at) then I would run a mile.

    I want somebody who is good at what they do - not somebody who is good with gimmicks.
    Originally posted by ciderboy2009
    Why would you run a mile just because of an electric van? Seems like very flawed logic to me - if you want someone who's good at the job why does their mode of transport matter?

    Not that it matters as I won't be in your rec's as that's not my type of carpentry!
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 6th Dec 17, 12:19 AM
    • 1,640 Posts
    • 1,120 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    When trying to correct someone's financial planning it helps to get the maths right - Either your friend was doing FAR more than 30,000 miles, or was on an awful electricity tariff. Cost to do that should be under £1000 at worst.

    Depreciation is a concern, as with any new vehicle. But the cross-over point is far better for electric vehicles due to the huge savings on maintenance and fuel costs. But my plan would be to keep the van regardless of business success as a van is useful, especially one that is super cheap to run.

    Hitting up the hippies is harder to do with a diesel as after diesel-gate people are onto the fact that they ain't all that eco-wise. It's still an option, but it's not a great one from where I'm sitting.
    Originally posted by neobrainless
    If you know so much, why are you bothering asking mere mortals such as us?

    Drop the attitude and you may get better answers.
    • n217970
    • By n217970 6th Dec 17, 8:46 AM
    • 327 Posts
    • 270 Thanks
    n217970
    Not that it matters as I won't be in your rec's as that's not my type of carpentry!
    Originally posted by neobrainless
    If kitchens and stairs are not a newly self employed chippy's "type of carpentry" I would suggest you don't bother buying a van at all, as you won't need one in 12 months.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 6th Dec 17, 8:57 AM
    • 7,243 Posts
    • 6,510 Thanks
    Herzlos
    Why would you run a mile just because of an electric van? Seems like very flawed logic to me - if you want someone who's good at the job why does their mode of transport matter?
    Originally posted by neobrainless
    Presumably they are wary about how much higher the quote is because of the fancy stuff they don't need (like an electric van). I really doubt anyone chooses/rejects a joiner based on the vehicle they use, especially since a diesel van is pretty much standard and often required (mileage, load).

    They'd therefor rather the joiner had a modest van, since they don't need to pay extra for it.
    • neobrainless
    • By neobrainless 6th Dec 17, 10:24 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neobrainless
    If you know so much, why are you bothering asking mere mortals such as us?

    Drop the attitude and you may get better answers.
    Originally posted by Mercdriver
    What attitude? I've just been met with a wall of assumptions which I've had to deal with, rather than helpful advice. I've thought a hell of a lot about the benefits of electric vehicles and know a hell of a lot about them. What I don't know much about is finance - hence asking the question.

    n217970 - Maybe 'carpenter' is the wrong term, woodworking might be better. I'm a producer rather than builder.

    Herzlos - I guess I'll just have to do what I was going to do - offer reasonable rates for comparable services which happen to be provided via an electric vehicle. No skin off my nose if some people are too short-sighted to take advantage!
    • n217970
    • By n217970 6th Dec 17, 10:37 PM
    • 327 Posts
    • 270 Thanks
    n217970
    n217970 - Maybe 'carpenter' is the wrong term, woodworking might be better. I'm a producer rather than builder.
    Originally posted by neobrainless
    I am sorry but what? I know there was an advert back in the 90s about someone saying they wanted to be a tree but I thought that was metaphorical. I have had a couple of drinkies tonight so sarcasm is 100% guaranteed but I am seriously curious as to what you mean by a producer?
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 7th Dec 17, 9:03 AM
    • 7,243 Posts
    • 6,510 Thanks
    Herzlos
    I think he means he's a furniture builder rather than a fitter. Cabinet maker?

    You can try to use an electric van if you want, but you're still going to have to factor the increased monthly costs in somehow and still make a profit.

    How often do you actually need a van?
    • LandyAndy
    • By LandyAndy 7th Dec 17, 9:30 AM
    • 24,271 Posts
    • 51,283 Thanks
    LandyAndy
    I've thought a hell of a lot about the benefits of electric vehicles and know a hell of a lot about them. What I don't know much about is finance - hence asking the question.


    Herzlos - I guess I'll just have to do what I was going to do - offer reasonable rates for comparable services which happen to be provided via an electric vehicle. No skin off my nose if some people are too short-sighted to take advantage!
    Originally posted by neobrainless



    You don't seem to know a lot about starting a business either.
    • neobrainless
    • By neobrainless 7th Dec 17, 1:30 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neobrainless
    @ n217970 and Herzlos - Almot there - I'm definitely *not* a cabinet maker, but that more the kinda thing I mean - mirrors, coasters, bowls, guitars, etc.

    I don't need a van to make things work, but it would make it a lot easier, especially in terms of income streams cause I could do 'man with van' type work as well.

    And if you read my original post, you'll see that I've already calculated that I should save money on my current monthly outgoings. Which makes it a no-brainer to me - I ask the question in case there's a massive obvious factor I've missed, but seeing as so far all people have come up with is 'electric vans are bad' it seems like there isn't.

    @ LandyAndy - No, this is my first attempt, but so far so good, not *too* far from heading towards consistent profit, which for not quite a full year since I started seriously trying isn't too bad.
    • Big Dogg
    • By Big Dogg 22nd Apr 18, 6:42 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Big Dogg
    Curious
    Read this thread with interest - I'm in a similar position myself, though have been running my business for nearly ten years now.

    My current thoughts are: if my motoring costs in a year are x, and I worked out I could also have a new electric van for x - what's the downside?

    One this thread brought up for me - not necessarily one, if I was to carry on in my current job for another fifteen years or so. But if I was unable to work after, say, three years, then I'd risk taking a hit if I were forced to sell the van..

    Anyway, I was wondering how you got on with your electric van purchase?
    • neobrainless
    • By neobrainless 22nd Apr 18, 9:17 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    neobrainless
    Hi, I've not bought it yet - I'm waiting for this years model to come out and the release date is still unconfirmed... Apparently should be by June!
    • Nathaniel Essex
    • By Nathaniel Essex 23rd Apr 18, 1:35 AM
    • 103 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    Nathaniel Essex
    No one hires a tradesman because he drives an eco friendly car. I'm pretty sure you can buy an old van for a couple grand, if that, then upgrade once the business gets going.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 23rd Apr 18, 8:30 AM
    • 1,773 Posts
    • 9,482 Thanks
    NBLondon
    @ n217970 and Herzlos - Almot there - I'm definitely *not* a cabinet maker, but that more the kinda thing I mean - mirrors, coasters, bowls, guitars, etc.

    I don't need a van to make things work, but it would make it a lot easier, especially in terms of income streams cause I could do 'man with van' type work as well.
    Originally posted by neobrainless
    So - you're not making enough from the artisanal stuff (even in neo hippy Bristol) so you want to do odd jobs to supplement and might need a van. If you seriously think that an eco-approach will get you extra business then a cargo-bike might be the option - there are probably electric ones too. Also useful for delivering your artisanal products. If you're starting to do craft fairs and things - hire a van when needed.

    My brother-in-law is an artisanal blacksmith not far from that other hippy hangout Glastonbury. Nobody ever turned him down for driving a shabby Citroen Berlingo...
    Womble #7 - Running Total £9.68 $1.99 €3.35 S//0.10 (that's supposed to be 10 Ukrainian kopiyki but the site is refusing to display the symbol) Bds$0.10 A$0.05 C$0.88 S$0.20 zl0.02 (Polish grosze) LB0.22 (Bulgarian stotinka) ISKr 5 DKr 0.50 CHF 0.50
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