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  • FIRST POST
    • kazzybee
    • By kazzybee 1st Dec 17, 11:49 PM
    • 30Posts
    • 17Thanks
    kazzybee
    Probate & illegal dealings
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:49 PM
    Probate & illegal dealings 1st Dec 17 at 11:49 PM
    Can anyone please advise as to whom to contact in respect of a death that has occurred & the executor has NOT applied for probate but is renting out a property that is NOT theirs to do that with.
    Please can anyone give me any pointers as this isnít right or legal.

    Thank you
    KIND REGARDS
    KAZZYBEE
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 1st Dec 17, 11:59 PM
    • 4,136 Posts
    • 3,379 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:59 PM
    • #2
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:59 PM
    Can anyone please advise as to whom to contact in respect of a death that has occurred & the executor has NOT applied for probate but is renting out a property that is NOT theirs to do that with.
    Please can anyone give me any pointers as this isn!!!8217;t right or legal.

    Thank you
    Originally posted by kazzybee
    Technicly the executor is entitled to rent it out as long as the rent is paid into the estate. As a landlord the executor needs to comply with all the legal requirements of being a landlord. Whilst there is no fixed term for applying for probate the executor should do so ASAP.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 05-12-2017 at 5:33 PM.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 2nd Dec 17, 12:21 AM
    • 4,990 Posts
    • 5,552 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 2nd Dec 17, 12:21 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Dec 17, 12:21 AM
    How long has this been going on? Was the property being rented out by the deceased?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 2nd Dec 17, 12:50 AM
    • 32,035 Posts
    • 19,222 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 2nd Dec 17, 12:50 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Dec 17, 12:50 AM
    If by executor you mean the named person in a will then they will be acting as trustee of the estate assets.

    What in the will makes you think they can't rent out the place?

    Someone will have to take them to court, usually that will be a beneficiary.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 2nd Dec 17, 9:18 AM
    • 804 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Margot123
    • #5
    • 2nd Dec 17, 9:18 AM
    • #5
    • 2nd Dec 17, 9:18 AM
    I think we need a bit more detail in order to comment:
    - Are you certain Probate hasn't been applied for/granted? You can check here: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
    - Was the property previously let to the same tenant? Perhaps the executor doesn't want to make them homeless.
    - If it has been let since the owner's death, find out if there is a letting agent involved. A Rightmove search should find the details, or you can Google the address followed by 'to let' 'for rent' etc.

    Having been an executor several times, this matter doesn't appear at all odd to me from the information you have provided so far.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 3rd Dec 17, 12:20 PM
    • 4,136 Posts
    • 3,379 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #6
    • 3rd Dec 17, 12:20 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Dec 17, 12:20 PM
    We shall be able to help the OP better if they give more information.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 3rd Dec 17, 2:49 PM
    • 804 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Margot123
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 17, 2:49 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 17, 2:49 PM
    We shall be able to help the OP better if they give more information.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Which seems somewhat lacking. We haven't heard anything back from them despite them asking for our help.
    • chesky
    • By chesky 3rd Dec 17, 7:55 PM
    • 994 Posts
    • 1,595 Thanks
    chesky
    • #8
    • 3rd Dec 17, 7:55 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Dec 17, 7:55 PM
    Probably has realised the executor has not acted incorrectly and doesn't like the responses.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 4th Dec 17, 8:39 AM
    • 804 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Margot123
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:39 AM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 17, 8:39 AM
    Probably has realised the executor has not acted incorrectly and doesn't like the responses.
    Originally posted by chesky
    Yes, this is usually what happens when posters want agreement with their argument rather than independent advise.
    • kazzybee
    • By kazzybee 5th Dec 17, 12:34 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    kazzybee
    Probate
    The executor cannot do anything re money or property until probate has been granted, there for they cannot rent out a property that isnít legally theirs.
    So again I will ask who I can report this issue to. The property in question has never been rented out, it was lived in by a couple who had it from new some 58 yrs ago. As stated the property was left to 2 executors but without registering the will or applying for probate the executors are renting the property out.
    As the estate will eventually go to said executors but the rental money will not be put into the estate and again I reiterate the executors cannot do anything until probate applied for & knowing the people involved they will be whittling down the monies to avoid inheritance tax.
    Anymore questions please ask.
    KIND REGARDS
    KAZZYBEE
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 5th Dec 17, 12:51 PM
    • 4,136 Posts
    • 3,379 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    The executor cannot do anything re money or property until probate has been granted, there for they cannot rent out a property that isn!!!8217;t legally theirs.
    So again I will ask who I can report this issue to. The property in question has never been rented out, it was lived in by a couple who had it from new some 58 yrs ago. As stated the property was left to 2 executors but without registering the will or applying for probate the executors are renting the property out.
    As the estate will eventually go to said executors but the rental money will not be put into the estate and again I reiterate the executors cannot do anything until probate applied for & knowing the people involved they will be whittling down the monies to avoid inheritance tax.
    Anymore questions please ask.
    Originally posted by kazzybee
    Sorry to say but you are wrong about the property rental. The executors are perfectly entitled to do this subject only to them complying with all the regulations relevant to landlords. They do NOT have to wait for probate to do this. Any rental incme belongs to the estate and is subject to income tax.The executors are required to apply for probate withn a reasonable time. When there is IHT payable they have to do it within a fixed timescale. If they do not do so they will be personally liable for any penalties not the estate. Do you know the value of the estate? What is your interest in the estate? Are you a beneficiary?
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 05-12-2017 at 4:33 PM.
    • sammy1234567
    • By sammy1234567 5th Dec 17, 1:49 PM
    • 62 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    sammy1234567
    When did your relative pass away?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 5th Dec 17, 3:06 PM
    • 32,035 Posts
    • 19,222 Thanks
    getmore4less
    The executor cannot do anything re money or property until probate has been granted, there for they cannot rent out a property that isnít legally theirs.
    So again I will ask who I can report this issue to. The property in question has never been rented out, it was lived in by a couple who had it from new some 58 yrs ago. As stated the property was left to 2 executors but without registering the will or applying for probate the executors are renting the property out.
    As the estate will eventually go to said executors but the rental money will not be put into the estate and again I reiterate the executors cannot do anything until probate applied for & knowing the people involved they will be whittling down the monies to avoid inheritance tax.
    Anymore questions please ask.
    Originally posted by kazzybee
    Executors powers come from the will so you can knock the idea they need probate to do anything on the head.

    For IHT it is based on values at DOD you can't whittle down moneys to save IHT.


    I will say it again if someone does not like what they are doing(you) they(you) have to take court action themselves.

    that is how you "report" them.
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 5th Dec 17, 3:19 PM
    • 804 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Margot123
    When a property is specifically bequeathed to named beneficiaries, it is theirs from the date of the death of the testator. Therefore they can sell (but only complete with a Grant of Probate), rent, live in it, do what they want with it. Any rental income will be theirs to keep, and not form part of the residual estate.

    If it is being rented by private arrangement, then it isn't even going to enter the tenant's head to ask 'have you got authority to rent it?', and a letting agent won't care so long as someone signs the disclaimer and they get their %age from the rent.
    • MichelleUK
    • By MichelleUK 5th Dec 17, 5:36 PM
    • 349 Posts
    • 219 Thanks
    MichelleUK
    The executor cannot do anything re money or property until probate has been granted, there for they cannot rent out a property that isnít legally theirs.
    So again I will ask who I can report this issue to. The property in question has never been rented out, it was lived in by a couple who had it from new some 58 yrs ago. As stated the property was left to 2 executors but without registering the will or applying for probate the executors are renting the property out.
    As the estate will eventually go to said executors but the rental money will not be put into the estate and again I reiterate the executors cannot do anything until probate applied for & knowing the people involved they will be whittling down the monies to avoid inheritance tax.
    Anymore questions please ask.
    Originally posted by kazzybee
    Just to clarify, are you saying that the will appointed two Executors who also are the only two beneficiaries of the will?
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 5th Dec 17, 5:43 PM
    • 804 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Margot123
    This is very confusing.
    Are there 2 executors and one is renting out the property, without the agreement of the other?

    ANSWERING MY OWN QUESTION: the confusing thing is that in one post you say 'executor' (singular) and another 'executors' (plural).

    Please clarify...........
    Last edited by Margot123; 05-12-2017 at 5:46 PM.
    • kazzybee
    • By kazzybee 14th Dec 17, 6:21 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    kazzybee
    The executor IS ACTING ILLEGALLY because none of the estate is hers as no probate has been applied for. The deceased died in February 2017 so as we stand the property & the estate are owned by no one, the will left all to 2 people but neither have applied for probate. Why is there no time limit re probate. The property alone is over the inheritance bracket. There was a lasting power of attorney but I believe this ceases when the deceased becomes deceased. Can I inform the tax office?
    KIND REGARDS
    KAZZYBEE
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Dec 17, 6:31 PM
    • 32,035 Posts
    • 19,222 Thanks
    getmore4less
    The executor IS ACTING ILLEGALLY because none of the estate is hers as no probate has been applied for. The deceased died in February 2017 so as we stand the property & the estate are owned by no one, the will left all to 2 people but neither have applied for probate. Why is there no time limit re probate. The property alone is over the inheritance bracket. There was a lasting power of attorney but I believe this ceases when the deceased becomes deceased. Can I inform the tax office?
    Originally posted by kazzybee
    when someone dies ALL their assets fall into a statutory trust or a will trust if there is a will.

    The executors are the default trustees and have the powers to deal with the assets as they ar the legal owners from the date of death.

    You need to grasp this basic concept.


    You can report anything to anyone or any institution including HMRC, prepare a letter and send it.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 14th Dec 17, 6:41 PM
    • 5,662 Posts
    • 25,923 Thanks
    thorsoak
    As has been said already, any power of attorney ceases at the time of death. At that time, the assets belonging to the deceased transfer into the ownership of the executors and if the will appoints two executors who are the beneficiaries of the will, then the executors have not acted illegally in this point. Have they executed any other bequests made in that will?]

    Why is this of such concern to you?
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 14th Dec 17, 7:31 PM
    • 4,136 Posts
    • 3,379 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    The executor IS ACTING ILLEGALLY because none of the estate is hers as no probate has been applied for. The deceased died in February 2017 so as we stand the property & the estate are owned by no one, the will left all to 2 people but neither have applied for probate. Why is there no time limit re probate. The property alone is over the inheritance bracket. There was a lasting power of attorney but I believe this ceases when the deceased becomes deceased. Can I inform the tax office?
    Originally posted by kazzybee
    How many more time do you have to be told? The executor is not, repeat not, acting illegally. At the point of death all the estate property becomes vested in the executor(s) . From that point on the executor(s) can deal with the estate property. That includes renting it out for the benefit of the estate. The exceutor should apply for probate as soon as reasonably possible. Once that is granted they can dispose of the estate assets according to what the will says. Whilst there is no formal timescale for the probate application if there is IHT payable then this to be applied for within six months and the IHT paid. How do you know probate has not been applied for. If you want people to help you you need to give more details.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 26-12-2017 at 9:21 PM.
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