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  • FIRST POST
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 1st Dec 17, 2:48 PM
    • 49Posts
    • 39Thanks
    MikeHammer
    POPLA Appeal (ECP) - Successful - not contested
    • #1
    • 1st Dec 17, 2:48 PM
    POPLA Appeal (ECP) - Successful - not contested 1st Dec 17 at 2:48 PM
    First time posting and in need of some brief advice before proceeding with an appeal.

    I have read the stickies, I've read the FAQ's, I've read the BPA Code of Practice and I've reviewed paragraph 9 of POFA 2012 that relates to postal NTK's. I've also searched various things on this forum in order to better equip myself with the knowledge I may need, should I proceed with an appeal. Apologies in advance for not being able to link the images due to being a new member.

    Put simply, the driver entered a ECP car park from a 30mph road at around 7.50pm on a dark night. On the occasion for which the PCN has been issued, the driver did not see signs upon entering the car park, nor did they see any larger signs adjacent to ticket machines. No signage was visible from where the driver parked the car, nor on the exit route used from the car park (a genuine, gravel path exit - not jumping a fence or anything!).

    The times indicated on the PCN say the vehicle was in the car park for 10 minutes and 48 seconds. The PCN shows ANPR images of a numberplate (the car itself is not visible in the image, nor is anything identifiable as the car park itself).

    The reason I'm asking for advice is because the driver did not purchase a ticket for the duration of the stay as they did not see the signage (the majority of what I've read when searching this forum are from people who have tickets but who've exceeded the time permitted).

    Upon returning to the car park (without a camera so unable to post actual pics), there are small signs at the entrance that have a white "P" in a blue square and some other small text (apologies for not being able to share an image link to an example). This sign is at a height not convenient for a driver to see/read when turning into the car park from a 30mph road (where Government guidelines say the sign must be legible at a speed of 15mph). It is not illuminated, either by direct or indirect light. It appears to be reflective but is at a height far above that which would be lit by car headlights (also the angle of approach to the car park mean your headlights would not light up that sign even if it were at a lower level).

    The main sign in the car park located next to a ticket machine (that is illuminated) is a big yellow/blue ECP standard looking sign (again, apologies for not being able to share an image link to an example), however the driver did not see it when parking on the occasion for which the PCN was issued. Having gone back to the car park and specifically looked, it *is* illuminated and it is directly opposite the vehicle entrance to the car park (probably 100 yards or so directly in front of the entrance), however the driver drove immediately right upon entering the car park so would not have been facing it at any point.

    I have attempted to search for any related advice. I have found some very useful information (so thank you to everyone who commits time to helping others on here) but nothing that fits the combination of circumstances (not purchasing a ticket) *and* potential reason for appeal (signage).

    I wanted to seek your views on whether it's worth me appealing, given the driver did not buy any ticket at all and given it probably looks like all the relevant info that needs to be on the signs is on the signs (they're just not prominent at all).

    Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by MikeHammer; 13-02-2018 at 8:14 AM.
Page 4
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 30th Jan 18, 12:00 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    POPLA appeal submitted. It's now a case of wait and see. How long does the operator have to respond?

    When doing so, I selected "Other" from the main page, as instructed in the Newbie Sticky (which seems to contradict the Parking Prankster's blog where he selects three reasons!). There was a note saying that appeals selecting "Other" have less chance of success. Did I do the right thing?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 30th Jan 18, 5:18 PM
    • 7,228 Posts
    • 6,735 Thanks
    KeithP
    There was a note saying that appeals selecting "Other" have less chance of success.
    Originally posted by MikeHammer
    Where did you see that note - on the PoPLA website?

    Trying to mislead you into giving away driver details.
    .
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 30th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Yes - on the POPLA site when submitting the appeal.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Jan 18, 12:14 AM
    • 57,498 Posts
    • 71,087 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes we know - guess who wrote that? We think, the BPA, to put people off doing decent winning appeals. And it appeared on POPLA's webpage before this service had ever even heard a single case...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 31st Jan 18, 6:42 AM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Thatís ok - I did the right thing then !!!128517;
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 3rd Feb 18, 8:54 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Can I ask how long the operator has to respond?
    • Edna Basher
    • By Edna Basher 3rd Feb 18, 9:49 PM
    • 667 Posts
    • 1,740 Thanks
    Edna Basher
    21 Days.

    PPCs often wait until the very last minute to act - at which point you should receive an email from POPLA advising you either that a) the PPC has thrown in the towel or b) the PPC's evidence is available for you to download from POPLA's website.
    Last edited by Edna Basher; 03-02-2018 at 9:51 PM.
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 4th Feb 18, 6:40 AM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Thank you. From what Iíve read ECP seem to always submit a response so letís wait and see what holes I can pick in it.
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 12th Feb 18, 6:35 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Received an email this evening telling me Euro Car Parks do not wish to contest this so the appeal is successful.

    Thank you so much to everyone for their advice, time and help - it has been invaluable.
    Last edited by MikeHammer; 12-02-2018 at 6:38 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Feb 18, 10:12 PM
    • 57,498 Posts
    • 71,087 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Brilliant, another one bites the dust, where it belongs!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 13th Feb 18, 8:13 AM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    Brilliant, another one bites the dust, where it belongs!
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I must admit, I was preparing for the evidence pack as it seemed ECP never give up at this stage so I'm quite surprised.

    Thank you for all your time, advice and feedback - it obviously helped a great deal
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 13th Feb 18, 12:55 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    For the record - just added something to the 'decision' sticky.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Feb 18, 1:22 PM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,979 Thanks
    The Deep
    Now watch this


    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41


    then complain in the most robust terms to your MP of this scammer wasting your time. A few hundred complaints to MPs should see them gone by Christmas
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Feb 18, 2:19 PM
    • 7,228 Posts
    • 6,735 Thanks
    KeithP
    For the record - just added something to the 'decision' sticky.
    Originally posted by MikeHammer
    A link to this thread in your post 'over there' would be good.
    .
    • MikeHammer
    • By MikeHammer 13th Feb 18, 2:57 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    MikeHammer
    A link to this thread in your post 'over there' would be good.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Good call - will go add
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