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    • hbe 100
    • By hbe 100 29th Nov 17, 5:47 PM
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    hbe 100
    Signing of estate accounts
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:47 PM
    Signing of estate accounts 29th Nov 17 at 5:47 PM
    The estate accounts have been sent out to the beneficiaries of a will, one of them is a strange character and we believe will not sign them even though they are correct. Do we have to wait until he does sign before releasing the funds as per the will. If we have to wait how long would a reasonable time be.
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 29th Nov 17, 6:04 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:04 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:04 PM
    The estate accounts have been sent out to the beneficiaries of a will, one of them is a strange character and we believe will not sign them even though they are correct. Do we have to wait until he does sign before releasing the funds as per the will. If we have to wait how long would a reasonable time be.
    Originally posted by hbe 100
    You have no obligation to send out accounts except to any residuary bneficiaries.None of them have to approve them.
    • Crabapple
    • By Crabapple 29th Nov 17, 6:06 PM
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    Crabapple
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:06 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:06 PM
    Beneficiaries (of a share) are entitled to a copy of the accounts but do not need to approve them.

    Only the executors need to sign them.
    Daughter born January 2012 Son born February 2014

    Slimming World ~ trying to get back on the wagon...
    • sammy1234567
    • By sammy1234567 1st Dec 17, 11:08 AM
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    sammy1234567
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    • #4
    • 1st Dec 17, 11:08 AM
    I am also dealing with an odd beneficiary (sister). I got some free legal advise from a large law firm. They said, 'ask her to sign the accounts, and if she will not, do not release any (more) money; if she refuses to sign, you need to know why'. I sent the accounts. Waiting...
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 1st Dec 17, 12:11 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 12:11 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 17, 12:11 PM
    I am also dealing with an odd beneficiary (sister). I got some free legal advise from a large law firm. They said, 'ask her to sign the accounts, and if she will not, do not release any (more) money; if she refuses to sign, you need to know why'. I sent the accounts. Waiting...
    Originally posted by sammy1234567
    AS I said before unless she is the residuary beneficiary she does not have to agree the accounts and in any case if she does not accpt them she can go toi court, at her exepnse.
    • dresdendave
    • By dresdendave 19th May 18, 1:10 PM
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    dresdendave
    • #6
    • 19th May 18, 1:10 PM
    • #6
    • 19th May 18, 1:10 PM
    I am in the same position, if accounts don't have to be sent out, why have I been sent some to be signed? The other person hasn't signed. If they don't sign will I still be able to receive my inheritance?
    Originally posted by Polarbear18
    Welcome to the forum, you should really start your own thread rather than hijack an existing one.

    Give as much relevant detail as possible, other than sensitive personal info, and you will get good advice.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 19th May 18, 4:02 PM
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    SevenOfNine
    • #7
    • 19th May 18, 4:02 PM
    • #7
    • 19th May 18, 4:02 PM
    We plan to send beneficiaries a basic accounts spreadsheet showing income/expenditure, along with an interim payment, but they're not being asked to agree or sign anything.

    Purely in the spirit of openness (& mainly because their father utilised his power of attorney over the deceased's finances to relieve the old guys bank account of between £10 - £12k in the 14 months before he died), they will be invited to look at the whole accounts if they so wish prior to distribution of the remaining funds.

    I've taken on board the request for the other executor to approve the accounts before distribution of anything (he's the one who thought PoA meant 'joint account' & used money for his OWN benefit). Thanks Crabapple.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 19th May 18, 4:14 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #8
    • 19th May 18, 4:14 PM
    • #8
    • 19th May 18, 4:14 PM
    We plan to send beneficiaries a basic accounts spreadsheet showing income/expenditure, along with an interim payment, but they're not being asked to agree or sign anything.

    Purely in the spirit of openness (& mainly because their father utilised his power of attorney over the deceased's finances to relieve the old guys bank account of between £10 - £12k in the 14 months before he died), they will be invited to look at the whole accounts if they so wish prior to distribution of the remaining funds.

    I've taken on board the request for the other executor to approve the accounts before distribution of anything (he's the one who thought PoA meant 'joint account' & used money for his OWN benefit). Thanks Crabapple.
    Originally posted by SevenOfNine
    Unless someone can cite a verifiable example AFAIK there is no requirement for ANYONE to approve the executors accounts except obviously the executors. Any residuary beneficiary is entitled to a copy of them. The only way to challenge the accounts is in court. In 7 of 9s case he is being very wise explain the detail but this is an exceptional case. I hope the attorney has been reported as there is no reason beneficiaries should lose out in this way.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 20th May 18, 9:14 AM
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    AnotherJoe
    • #9
    • 20th May 18, 9:14 AM
    • #9
    • 20th May 18, 9:14 AM
    Just to follow up on Yorkshiremans comments, how on earth can anyone who isn't executor "sign off" (which means to validate and say they are good) accounts if they've not been involved with the whole process?

    Imagine you are a beneficiary and you get a set of accounts from your great aunts executors, that you've had no other interaction with, asking you to "sign them off". On what basis of knowledge could you do that?

    As he says it makes no sense for anyone that wasn't intimately involved with the process, eg an executor, to say they are valid, which is what signing off means.

    Now, it may be that you wish to show the beneficiaries whats what, so that if they are getting say 1/10th the estate they can have a quick glance and notice that your great aunts country estate doesnt seem to be mentioned, but signing off? Makes no sense.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 20th May 18, 9:43 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    Just to follow up on Yorkshiremans comments, how on earth can anyone who isn't executor "sign off" (which means to validate and say they are good) accounts if they've not been involved with the whole process?

    Imagine you are a beneficiary and you get a set of accounts from your great aunts executors, that you've had no other interaction with, asking you to "sign them off". On what basis of knowledge could you do that?

    As he says it makes no sense for anyone that wasn't intimately involved with the process, eg an executor, to say they are valid, which is what signing off means.

    Now, it may be that you wish to show the beneficiaries whats what, so that if they are getting say 1/10th the estate they can have a quick glance and notice that your great aunts country estate doesnt seem to be mentioned, but signing off? Makes no sense.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Absolutely. Even the residuary beneficiaries who ARE entitled to copies can.t do it. Of course any beneficiary can always ask reasonable questions of the executor and should receive a prompt reply. My personal inclination is to give beneficiaries a brief summary and an invite them to ask if anything is not clear. IMHO this is particularly so for lay executors to summarise any expenses they have claimed. It is always a difficult time for the family so anything that helps is good.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 20th May 18, 10:57 AM
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    SevenOfNine
    Absolutely. Even the residuary beneficiaries who ARE entitled to copies can.t do it. Of course any beneficiary can always ask reasonable questions of the executor and should receive a prompt reply. My personal inclination is to give beneficiaries a brief summary and an invite them to ask if anything is not clear. IMHO this is particularly so for lay executors to summarise any expenses they have claimed. It is always a difficult time for the family so anything that helps is good.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    We're doing as YM99 has suggested for the beneficiaries, more as a gesture of goodwill & because we have nothing to hide (it hasn't been us who failed to behave in a morally & honourable fashion). We feel the following is appropriate:

    1) Final bank statement for deceased's a/c immediately prior to closure & the amount transferred into a new, separate, a/c because it was the start of the 'inheritance' money trail.

    2) Simple A4 page spreadsheet listing every single bit of income/expenditure down to the last penny, date, who, what, how much, income or expenditure. Everything was passed in or out of the new a/c not one penny bypassed it (even cash found in the house) & running total with every transaction.

    3) A breakdown of the £154 we claimed in expenses & an indication that we have receipts for every single one of the 12 items (& they can see those if they ask).

    4) A 'start to finish' bank statement which will show a total of 30 transactions, tying in exactly with the finer details on the spreadsheet.

    I think YM99 is right, there is a difference with a lay executor as opposed to a solicitor. I've felt it extremely important to keep simple but 100% accurate accounts, to have organised paper trails for all transactions/actions. As AJoe points out, it would not be possible to 'sign off' accounts as being accurate unless one had sight of every piece of paperwork in the executor's possession & been completely involved from start to finish.

    We'll be sending 4 pieces of paperwork with an interim cheque payment with a covering letter of explanation & an invitation to peruse the full paper trail if they so wish. They must reply with yes/no & until such time we're withholding the balance payments.

    There ought to be a blinking LAW against beneficiaries whinging, arguing, nagging for payment, greed, being difficult in any shape or form & all the other negative things beneficiaries seem to think of to make the role of executor harder.

    It never ceases to amaze me how often it all deteriorates into all out war instead appreciating the thought of a lovely windfall.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • LobsterMemory
    • By LobsterMemory 20th May 18, 9:22 PM
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    • 9 Thanks
    LobsterMemory
    Currently executing my mother's estate, with the residuary legatees being myself and two brothers (also executors who have reserved powers)

    I'd say I have a better relationship with them than that above but still think that transparency is important throughout the process as you don't know what resentment may be brooding during the times when the whole process seems stuck in treacle, especially as you're the one with the purse strings.

    What i'm doing is every fortnight I send them a current statement of assets and liabilities, the distribution so far, an itemised listing of expenses and an investment performance statement. If you're keeping that information anyway, why not email everyone a progress report? Yeah, you don't have to but it's virtually zero extra effort, keeps everyone informed and if anyone wants to question anything, then it's easy to answer quickly, rather than leave it to fester.
    • lukewarn
    • By lukewarn 21st May 18, 3:08 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 34 Thanks
    lukewarn
    "There ought to be a blinking LAW against beneficiaries whinging, arguing, nagging for payment, greed, being difficult in any shape or form & all the other negative things beneficiaries seem to think of to make the role of executor harder."


    Had to laugh at that comment,spot on!


    I endured 2 years of crap from siblings when they tried every trick in the book.....



    Unsound mind,undue influence etc etc. They even tried (with a second firm of very aggressive solicitors) to force me to sign a part 36 offer to vary the will!


    After 2 county court appearances, and a load of legal costs,they didn't get an extra penny out of the estate...
    • YoungBlueEyes
    • By YoungBlueEyes 21st May 18, 10:36 PM
    • 206 Posts
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    YoungBlueEyes
    +1 for the new law !

    While we're at it, can we make another that says it's illegal to lie to a solicitor please?

    (The 'evil stepsisters' are responding to my solic's letters with total 4rse gravy. Appalling behaviour, there should be severe punishments for that imo!).
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 22nd May 18, 8:43 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    +1 for the new law !

    While we're at it, can we make another that says it's illegal to lie to a solicitor please?

    (The 'evil stepsisters' are responding to my solic's letters with total 4rse gravy. Appalling behaviour, there should be severe punishments for that imo!).
    Originally posted by YoungBlueEyes
    Tricky. A solicitor is also an officer of the court so it might be perjury. If she lied under oath it almost certainly is.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 22nd May 18, 10:45 AM
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    Dox
    Tricky. A solicitor is also an officer of the court so it might be perjury. .
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    No, it isn't. Perjury can only be committed when on oath.

    A solicitor is an Officer of the Court and as such is not permitted to mislead the court either deliberately or by omission. The same doesn't apply to the relationship between client and solicitor.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 22nd May 18, 11:54 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    No, it isn't. Perjury can only be committed when on oath.

    A solicitor is an Officer of the Court and as such is not permitted to mislead the court either deliberately or by omission. The same doesn't apply to the relationship between client and solicitor.
    Originally posted by Dox
    If the person swears and oath as to a written statement?
    • YoungBlueEyes
    • By YoungBlueEyes 22nd May 18, 8:00 PM
    • 206 Posts
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    YoungBlueEyes
    It wasn't under oath or in court.

    My solic wrote letters to them saying - you've had more than your fair share, now belt up and/or get legal advice. One of the emailed him back (cc'ing the other one in) with a load of complete tosh about how I was abusing Dad and thieving from him and he was scared of me and that they are going to ring the police etc etc.

    That there should be illegal!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 22nd May 18, 9:32 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    It wasn't under oath or in court.

    My solic wrote letters to them saying - you've had more than your fair share, now belt up and/or get legal advice. One of the emailed him back (cc'ing the other one in) with a load of complete tosh about how I was abusing Dad and thieving from him and he was scared of me and that they are going to ring the police etc etc.

    That there should be illegal!
    Originally posted by YoungBlueEyes
    In theory it is because is defamatory but in practice there no chance of pursuing it.
    • YoungBlueEyes
    • By YoungBlueEyes 22nd May 18, 10:03 PM
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    YoungBlueEyes
    Thanks YM. It was just a thought, I'll not be pursuing it. I've trouble enough without going looking for more ha haa!

    Sorry to derail your thread hbe 100.
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