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    • selhurst sound
    • By selhurst sound 29th Nov 17, 2:11 PM
    • 25Posts
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    selhurst sound
    Indigo Appeal Rejected - did actually pay for parking!
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:11 PM
    Indigo Appeal Rejected - did actually pay for parking! 29th Nov 17 at 2:11 PM
    Hi all

    Unfortunately I appealed a penalty notice from Indigo before reading this board. I had thought it would be a simple appeal as I had actually paid for parking (train station) through the Indigo App, but for some reason it didn’t register that I’d done it, despite the fact it devotes my account. So I used the online appeal process and enclosed a copy of my statement showing the payment but they still rejected it saying they couldn’t see on their system that I had purchased parking. Even more annoyingly, I have acknowledged that I was the driver whilst doing the appeal. Should also point out that this is a company car so I am not the owner.

    Any advice as to what to do? Or am I just going to have to take this one on the chin and learn the lesson for next time!
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 29th Nov 17, 2:47 PM
    • 2,748 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:47 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Nov 17, 2:47 PM
    No, why would yo utake this on the chin?

    Was this a PENALTY under byelaws (incorrectly, as is widely known, but this is Indigos usual claim)
    OR
    A PARKING charge?

    If penalty, then there is no byelaw offence of failing to hae it register on their system> Just of failing to pay....
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 29th Nov 17, 3:00 PM
    • 9,467 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:00 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 17, 3:00 PM
    but they still rejected it saying they couldn!!!8217;t see on their system that I had purchased parking.


    If you paid, it is hardly your concern if they failed to record it. If this is bye-law land it is not all that important who was driving. Only the TOC can take you to court, and you have committed no bye-law offence.


    There is lots of stuff on the net about this company ticketing on bye law land.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • selhurst sound
    • By selhurst sound 29th Nov 17, 5:01 PM
    • 25 Posts
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    selhurst sound
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:01 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:01 PM
    It was a penalty notice and says it’s in accordance with “rail byelaw 14”.

    So is the recommended action to do nothing and ignore it?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 29th Nov 17, 5:23 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:23 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:23 PM
    I would respond and ask which byelaw covers their payment system not recording g a payment that can be proven to have been made.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 29th Nov 17, 5:58 PM
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    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:58 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 17, 5:58 PM
    Ask them, as they have rejected your initial appeal, where is your POPLA Code? They won!!!8217;t provide one, but it tees them up for a complaint to the DVLA (there!!!8217;s been some clandestine jiggerypokery between Indigo and the BPA).

    Ask them are they pursuing you under contract law, or under bylaws? If the former, where is your recourse to Alternative Dispute Resolution, your legal right under the CRA 2015? If the latter, under what bylaw and where exactly in those bylaws do they permit any organisation other than the Train Operating Company to prosecute through the Mags Court?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 29th Nov 17, 6:05 PM
    • 9,467 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:05 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Nov 17, 6:05 PM
    You have them by the short and curlies, make life for them as difficult as possible. Complain to the BPA, Trading Standards, (in writing), DVLA, and your MP.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • selhurst sound
    • By selhurst sound 2nd Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    selhurst sound
    • #8
    • 2nd Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    • #8
    • 2nd Jan 18, 9:41 AM
    Latest update - I went back to Indigo via the online system questioning byelaws and asking for a POPLA code. Didn’t hear anything from them and then on Saturday a letter from ZZPS Ltd debt collectors drops through the letterbox saying it had been handed for them and they’ve added a £70 admin fee onto it.

    Would the best course of action now be to ignore this letter and just further pursue Indigo? Perhaps in writing, as the online system now won’t allow me to lodge a further appeal.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
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    pappa golf
    • #9
    • 2nd Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    • #9
    • 2nd Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    read this thread http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5726038 one stage further than you

    you can now see what will happen next and the correct corse of aCTION INVOLVED
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 2nd Jan 18, 11:33 AM
    • 7,512 Posts
    • 10,004 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Latest update - I went back to Indigo via the online system questioning byelaws and asking for a POPLA code. Didn’t hear anything from them and then on Saturday a letter from ZZPS Ltd debt collectors drops through the letterbox saying it had been handed for them and they’ve added a £70 admin fee onto it.
    Originally posted by selhurst sound
    Best thing with ZZPS is to flush the letter down the loo
    and let it float down the sewers back to ZZPS

    As the media keeps telling people ....
    DO NOT CONTACT SCAMMERS
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • selhurst sound
    • By selhurst sound 2nd Jan 18, 1:04 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    selhurst sound
    Thanks guys. The other thread is very helpful.

    One further question though - I have stupidly already let them know that I was driving in my initial appeal. (As I believed the appeal would be a simple case to accept). It!!!8217;s also a company car, so officially owned by a leasing company. Does this change the course of action I should take?
    Last edited by selhurst sound; 02-01-2018 at 1:07 PM.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Jan 18, 1:19 PM
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    pappa golf
    normally those 2 things would cause problems , HOWEVER the land comes under bylaws and indigo may just have a problem , bylaws over ride any rules made up by a parking Co

    sit tight , and watch the letter chain unfold
    • selhurst sound
    • By selhurst sound 2nd Jan 18, 1:37 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    selhurst sound
    normally those 2 things would cause problems , HOWEVER the land comes under bylaws and indigo may just have a problem , bylaws over ride any rules made up by a parking Co

    sit tight , and watch the letter chain unfold
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    So just do nothing? And then 6 months from the original ticket it’s all over anyway?

    Just checking as I have a very risk-averse fianc!e who is panicked by my ignoring these crooks!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 2nd Jan 18, 1:43 PM
    • 2,748 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    No, you chase indigo asking questions. Ping pong. You get it to 6 months them to them to fro

    Same as EVERY byelaws thread involving indigo.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Jan 18, 1:44 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
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    pappa golf
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73484923&postcount=4

    answered by http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=73484217&postcount=2
    • selhurst sound
    • By selhurst sound 2nd Jan 18, 4:54 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    selhurst sound
    Thanks again guys. How's this then for my letter to Indigo? It will now have to be sent via post as the online appeals system now directs me to the debt collectors.

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, following my appeal submitted via your online system on 4th December 2017 to which I have not received a response. My initial online appeal was rejected, and I would like to know why I was not provided with a POPLA code in this instance.
    Furthermore, could you please confirm which byelaw covers the failure of your mobile app system to record a valid payment which can be proven to have been made?
    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.
    Please note that in the event of you refusing to uphold this appeal, I require a POPLA verification code to enable me to access Alternative Dispute Resolution for an independent adjudication of my case - as is my legal right.
    Should you refuse to provide me access to POPLA via this code again, I will require reasons why you are denying me my legal right. Be aware that I will raise your refusal with the DVLA, the DCLG, the DfT and my local MP.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Jan 18, 4:59 PM
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    pappa golf
    dont even bother

    zzps are debt collectors , they have nothing to do with your case , you only deal with indigo or the TOC.


    you have already tried your best , you can do no more

    sit tight and follow the letter stream
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Jan 18, 5:03 PM
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    pappa golf
    and PS , the BPA have allowed indigo/TOC cases NOT to be "tried" by POPLa , as its NON RELIVENT LAND and must be sorted at magistrates NOT thru them

    if you contact the BPA , this is the reply you will get

    "Thank you for your email.

    I can see that in this instance, the charge was issued for a breach of the advertised terms and conditions by on privately owned Railway land. Charges issued on Railway land are referred to as Penalty Charge Notices because they will have been issued under railway Byelaws as well. Whilst I am sorry to learn if you were unhappy with the outcome of the appeal, it is not something I can address. The BPA has no authority to intervene in the appeals process.

    As the charge has been issued on railway land, then please be be advised that the BPA has temporarily removed the requirement for our members to provide a POPLA verification Code when an appeal is rejected. This is due to complaints being made that POPLA are not able to oversee appeals made where railway Byelaws are concerned. Until a solution is found, if a motorist remains unhappy following an appeal!!!8217;s rejection, they can appeal further via a Magistrates Court; our Code from which you have quoted does not reflect this at the moment as the decision is temporary. Unfortunately, as we cannot advise you how long the requirement will remain lifted, you will now need to use the Magistrate!!!8217;s Court to appeal further.

    The British Parking Association (BPA) has campaigned at length for clarity on the clauses in Railway Byelaws pertaining to parking to be improved, and the Government committed at a meeting in January to provide clarification but due to various circumstances, some beyond their control, this has not been forthcoming. In the meantime we will continue to work with Government to achieve a resolution to Railway Byelaws Clauses.

    Please also be aware that when a charge remains unpaid, then in due course it will be escalated to debt recovery. This is standard procedure. The cost of the charge can increase as the debt collection agency add on their costs. With that in mind, I would suggest that you now either pay the charges, or seek legal advice to contest it via Magistrates court.

    I hope this information is of use.


    " contest it via Magistrates court."

    only if the TOC presses charges!
    • selhurst sound
    • By selhurst sound 2nd Jan 18, 5:31 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    selhurst sound
    dont even bother

    zzps are debt collectors , they have nothing to do with your case , you only deal with indigo or the TOC.


    you have already tried your best , you can do no more

    sit tight and follow the letter stream
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Thanks PG. Just to clarify though, I was proposing to send the letter to Indigo rather than ZZPS. I.e. to just continue the back and forth letter stream. Are you suggesting not to do this and just to remain silent until if/when court papers appear?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Jan 18, 5:45 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,308 Thanks
    pappa golf
    you can play ping pong if you wish , play 20 questions , each one asking for specific info regarding the bylaws , ask them for copies of it or links

    regarding your second question , normally if this was your own car and you had not given your full name and address , I / we would just say , hang on indigo cannot pass your info to the TOC


    so , did you give your full name/address or did they go via the dvla/hire co / you ?
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