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  • FIRST POST
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 28th Nov 17, 3:31 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 9Thanks
    bobhope
    Defence statement submitted
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 17, 3:31 PM
    Defence statement submitted 28th Nov 17 at 3:31 PM
    June 15 recieved pcn from CEL . wife emailed CEL to dispute , heard nothing back then forward to Oct 17 received court papers from Northampton cc.Car park was anpr.
    Followed deadlines for returned documents to courts . DQ returned and filled in with info. from this site. My Defence was as follows.

    I deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:
    1. The Claim Form issued on the 04 October 2017 by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Claimant’s Legal Representative”.
    2. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. And as an example as to why this prevents a full!defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different!defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.
    (a) There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.!
    (b) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.
    (c) The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.(d) The Claim form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information. The Claim form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs.
    e) The!Defence!therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.
    f) Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the Claimant is required to file Particulars which comply with Practice Directions and include at least the following information;
    i. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge
    . A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (e.g. copies of signage)
    iii. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)
    iv. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper
    v. Whether the Claimant is acting as Agent or Principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter
    vi. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
    vii. If Interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
    g) Once these Particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file another!defence.
    3. The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Absent such a notice served within 14 days of the parking event and with fully compliant statutory wording, this Claimant is unable to hold me liable under the strict ‘keeper liability’ provisions.!
    Schedule 4 also states that the only sum a keeper can be pursued for (if Schedule 4 is fully complied with, which it was not, and if there was a 'relevant obligation' and relevant contract' fairly and adequately communicated, which there was not) is the sum on the Notice to Keeper. They cannot pluck another sum from thin air and bolt that on as well when neither the signs, nor the NTK, nor the permit information mentioned a possible £353.78 for outstanding debt and damages.
    4. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is simply not credible that £50 'legal representative’s (or even admin) costs' were incurred
    5. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.
    6. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant then there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.
    a) The Claimant is put to strict proof that at the time of the alleged event they had both advertisement consent and the permission from the site owner to display the signs.
    b) In the absence of strict proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.!
    c) Inadequate signs incapable of binding the driver - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:
    (i) Sporadic and illegible (charge not prominent nor large lettering) of site/entrance signage - breach of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice and no contract formed to pay any clearly stated sum.(ii) Non existent ANPR 'data use' signage - breach of ICO rules and the BPA Code of Practice.
    (iii) It is believed the signage was not lit and any terms were not transparent or legible; this is an unfair contract, not agreed by the driver and contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 in requiring a huge inflated sum as 'compensation' from by an authorised party using the premises as intended.
    (iv) No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
    (v) The signs are believed to have no mention of any debt collection additional charge, which cannot form part of any alleged contract.
    d) BPA CoP breaches - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:!
    (i) the signs were not compliant in terms of the font size, lighting or positioning.
    (ii) the sum pursued exceeds £100.(iii) there is / was no compliant landowner contract.
    7. No standing - this distinguishes this case from the Beavis case:It is believed Civil Enforcement do not hold a legitimate contract at this car park. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner.
    8.. The Beavis case confirmed the fact that, if it is a matter of trespass (not breach of any contract), a parking firm has no standing as a non-landowner to pursue even nominal damages.
    9.. The charge is an unenforceable penalty based upon a lack of commercial justification. The Beavis case confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in any case of a private parking charge and was only disengaged due to the unique circumstances of that case, which do not resemble this claim.
    The Defendant denies any liability whatsoever to the Claimant in any matter and asks the Court to note that the Claimant has:
    (a) failed to disclose any cause of action in the incorrectly filed Claim Form issued on 04 October 2017 .
    The vague Particulars of Claim disclose no clear cause of action. The court is invited to strike out the claim of its own volition as having no merit and no reasonable prospects of success.
    I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.
    Signed:
    Date :

    apologies for the layout just pasted from my original document.
    Received Defence from CEL and confirmation from Northampton cc that case has been transferred to my local county court for allocation and should wait for judges direction. so what next ? how long should i wait before i hear anything , in the meantime i understand i need to get my witness statement put together .

    Thank you for reading any comment input would be gratefully received
    Last edited by bobhope; 29-11-2017 at 2:32 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 28th Nov 17, 4:33 PM
    • 18,115 Posts
    • 22,903 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:33 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:33 PM
    please read the BARGEPOLE timeline listed in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, which also deals with various aspects of court cases
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 28th Nov 17, 4:40 PM
    • 2,267 Posts
    • 6,590 Thanks
    bargepole
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:40 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:40 PM
    How could you have received a 'Defense' from CEL when they are the Claimant?

    And which court in the US did you send this to?
    Speeding cases fought: 24 (3 of mine, 21 for others). Cases won: 20. Points on licence: 0. Private Parking Court Cases: Won 33. Lost 10.
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 28th Nov 17, 4:59 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bobhope
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:59 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 17, 4:59 PM
    How could you have received a 'Defense' from CEL when they are the Claimant?

    And which court in the US did you send this to?
    Originally posted by bargepole
    oh yes, sorry the Particulars of claim from CEL . Thanks for the correction defence looks better
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 7th Mar 18, 3:06 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bobhope
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 3:06 PM
    Witness Statement
    • #5
    • 7th Mar 18, 3:06 PM
    Thanks to following the threads & putting together my witness statement over the last few days . Just wanted to share with you for input / feedback , but unable to share via Dropbox due too forum not allowing new users to add links . Thinks im a spammer ? any other options to upload , thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Mar 18, 3:13 PM
    • 17,592 Posts
    • 27,808 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 18, 3:13 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Mar 18, 3:13 PM
    Copy the url but change http to hxxp and a regular will convert.

    But is this relating to the other thread you have running here about a CEL ticket? No one is going to appraise a WS in isolation with no context to refer to to, and it's unlikely anyone will jump back and to between other threads to pick up the story.

    If so, please PM Crabman or soolin (Board Guides) to ask them to merge your threads. You'll find links to them at the foot (r/h corner) of the forum thread list.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 07-03-2018 at 3:15 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Mar 18, 3:25 PM
    • 9,209 Posts
    • 8,979 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 3:25 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Mar 18, 3:25 PM
    The private parking industry is entirely unregulated, and is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

    Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They nearly always lose) and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 7th Mar 18, 5:38 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bobhope
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 5:38 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Mar 18, 5:38 PM
    Thank you .
    pm sent to board guide
    • soolin
    • By soolin 7th Mar 18, 7:23 PM
    • 60,322 Posts
    • 42,982 Thanks
    soolin
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 7:23 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 18, 7:23 PM
    Thread merged for clarity
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 8th Mar 18, 3:05 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bobhope
    Witness Statement
    Thanks to this forum & info gained my draft witness statement. Any feedback appreciated , thanks
    hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/tdf92oiuhxwmip3/dropbox.pptx?dl=0
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 18, 8:13 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,064 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Bump for comments.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 20th Mar 18, 6:17 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bobhope
    Just to update last Friday was the cut off for CEL to pay fee & submit application to courts , Rang courts this morning & nothing payed or submitted , so happy days
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 18, 7:52 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,064 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hooray, another one looks to have bitten the dust!

    Well done for taking the leap of faith needed to overcome this 'outrageous scam'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • bobhope
    • By bobhope 21st Mar 18, 5:27 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    bobhope
    Hooray, another one looks to have bitten the dust!

    Well done for taking the leap of faith needed to overcome this 'outrageous scam'.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thanks
    Ironically they sent me a letter last week four days before they needed to file their application to the courts saying pay us half the amount & we wont take it any further. Just Shows how desperate they are to try & claim anything back.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 18, 5:37 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,064 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Aha same letter everyone is getting:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74045724#post74045724

    You might want to post on Starnold444's thread to tell him/her the letter heralded CEL folding!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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