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    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 27th Nov 17, 12:37 PM
    • 5,105Posts
    • 8,973Thanks
    wymondham
    Expensive cars easy to steal...
    • #1
    • 27th Nov 17, 12:37 PM
    Expensive cars easy to steal... 27th Nov 17 at 12:37 PM
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42132804/relay-crime-theft-caught-on-camera

    The most shocking bit of this is the advice of police which is to fit a steering wheel lock in addition. How about the manufacturers at least try to make it more difficult in the first place?

    If I had a car with this proximity lock I'd take it back to the garage...

    Great example of focus group at car manufacturers getting all excited about their great new locking system - nobody being devils advocate and thinking about how easy to bypass.....
Page 2
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 28th Nov 17, 10:59 AM
    • 4,285 Posts
    • 4,333 Thanks
    DoaM
    If that is the case then why would there need to be a separate receiver and transmitter and why would one person need to be standing next to the house. If they could amplify a signal from far away then they would only need one device to hold near the car, so i don't think it works as far as you think.
    Originally posted by takman
    I agree. They need to be as close as possible because:

    1. As I recall, signal strength degrades by the square of distance (double the distance, 4 times less signal strength)
    2. Building materials also impede the signal path

    Therefore they stand at the window and place the search device on/very close to the window and then repeat the signal to a device near the car.
    Diary of a madman
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    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 28th Nov 17, 1:04 PM
    • 13,971 Posts
    • 18,395 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    This is just an urban myth that people keep spouting when talking about the negatives of contactless cards. If a thief tried to take unauthorised payments like this it would soon lead to them being caught when multiple people report the transactions as unauthorised. You cannot take card payments anonymously.
    Originally posted by takman
    In a test report I saw, single cards could be read but multiple cards held together, as in a wallet, were not.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain
    • Nilrem
    • By Nilrem 28th Nov 17, 6:37 PM
    • 2,382 Posts
    • 1,565 Thanks
    Nilrem
    I wonder if the crooks will adapt this technology to use contactless credit cards remotely.
    Originally posted by iltisman
    Contactless cards are extremely short range technology as the transmitter in the card requires power from the card reader (induction powered - which suffers from the inverse square law, iirc every time the distance doubles the power needed goes up 4 times, so 25mm is doable, 50mm is pushing it, 100mm is not going to work depending on system).

    You'll notice it if you try to use your contactless card on the wrong side of a reader in relation to the internal antenna (the cards try to allow for it by having a larger antenna which allows for pretty much the whole of the card to be readable as long as part of it near the readers one)
    • Robby1988
    • By Robby1988 28th Nov 17, 10:52 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    Robby1988
    Always thought this keyless entry stuff is a load of nonsense. A totally unnecessary gimmick.

    To this day I have never uttered even a tutt of dismay for the effort involved in pressing a button on my keyfob and then inserting the key. It's really not that big a deal.

    To think, buying a luxury car for five/six figures in 2017 and then having to buy a steering wheel lock like my Grandad had on his Rover in the 80s

    No doubt the big German brands will be along soon with their 'official' key pouches.
    Last edited by Robby1988; 28-11-2017 at 10:56 PM.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 29th Nov 17, 9:10 AM
    • 9,446 Posts
    • 10,449 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    I agree. They need to be as close as possible because:

    1. As I recall, signal strength degrades by the square of distance (double the distance, 4 times less signal strength)
    2. Building materials also impede the signal path

    Therefore they stand at the window and place the search device on/very close to the window and then repeat the signal to a device near the car.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    From memory, it!!!8217;s because you need something very close to the car for the car to recognise the proximity of the fob. And so if you don!!!8217;t have a relay system, you are much more restricted in the distance of the fob.

    On the technical paper I read, which dated from about 2012 so this problem has been known about for a long time but brushed under the carpet by manufacturers, their equipment was powerful enough that front or back of the house made no difference, but the car being another say 10 - 20 metres made a difference If you think about it thats doubling or trebling the distance from front of house to back), whilst having a relay system effectively means that the distance is pretty much unlimited, you could target a car parked in the same street for example rather than just ones parked really close to the house. If you only had one device, you!!!8217;d need a massively powerful transmitter and more importantly an ultra sensitive receiver to pick up the far distant fob. Once your receiver is good enough to receive the fob signal from the back of a house you don!!!8217;t need to worry about the additional distance between fob receiver and car.
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 29-11-2017 at 12:38 PM.
    • facade
    • By facade 29th Nov 17, 9:30 AM
    • 3,157 Posts
    • 1,659 Thanks
    facade
    So if we can hype up enough panic, will the price of second-hand keyless cars plummet?

    I could easily drop the fob into the biscuit tin when I come into the house if it meant I could drive a decent car for pocket money prices.

    More publicity!!!!
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
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