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  • FIRST POST
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 23rd Nov 17, 8:54 PM
    • 54Posts
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    trojan10_om
    Divorce proceedings
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 17, 8:54 PM
    Divorce proceedings 23rd Nov 17 at 8:54 PM
    Sadly, my wife no longer wants to be with me and there is 100% no going back. I have been living with a friend for the past few weeks making a small contribution towards bills.

    I'm guessing the answer is to seek legal advice? I'm not sure where to begin. We both want to do mediation, but from initial conversation our financial expectations are very different


    We have 2 children - 4 months and 2 years
    We have a mortgage - Around 110k owed 180k equity (5 year fix started this year)
    My wife is currently on maternity leave - plans to take the full year off and go back in May.
    I work full time and contribute the majority of the finances


    I've agreed to continue splitting the finances this month in he same way we've always done - I put all my salary into a shared pot except for 200. My wife does the same with her maternity pay/child benefit.

    My wife expects this to continue until May - which isn't great for me.

    Should I just go ahead and take legal advice? How do I pay for legal advice... using the shared money? 200/month doesn't go far.

    I know I can't expect someone to come up with all the answers in a complex situation.. but any indication on what my financial responsibilities should be would be helpful.

    I have already read all the links on Citizens Advice, but they are of course all very generic
    Last edited by trojan10_om; 23-11-2017 at 8:59 PM.
Page 4
    • triple choc chip
    • By triple choc chip 29th Nov 17, 6:10 PM
    • 856 Posts
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    triple choc chip
    Towards the mortgage? Because I own the house, I signed up to a 5 year fixed deal, I don't want to default on payment.

    Anything I pay for the next 6 months, I will more or less get back when I sell my equity?
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    Maybe not, that will be for the court to decide when you do the financial part of the divorce, it could be 50/50, 70/30 or 100% to her, depends on both personal circumstances and you may have to wait until the youngest is 18 years to see your equity. It's a long road, don't start off too fast.
    Life's greatest satisfactions: Getting the last laugh, having the last word and paying the last instalment.
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    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 30th Nov 17, 8:43 AM
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    trojan10_om
    Maybe not, that will be for the court to decide when you do the financial part of the divorce, it could be 50/50, 70/30 or 100% to her, depends on both personal circumstances and you may have to wait until the youngest is 18 years to see your equity. It's a long road, don't start off too fast.
    Originally posted by triple choc chip
    Oh, I didn't consider that. She initially offered to buy me out based on a 50% split, but to subtract the money her father paid for the extension. I haven't done the sums to work out what that split would be.

    So much to think about.
    • gonzo127
    • By gonzo127 30th Nov 17, 9:10 AM
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    gonzo127
    Oh, I didn't consider that. She initially offered to buy me out based on a 50% split, but to subtract the money her father paid for the extension. I haven't done the sums to work out what that split would be.

    So much to think about.
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    there is, which is why i keep on about getting things a little more concrete but doing it in bite size chunks

    once again the first and main thing you need to do right now is

    work out child maintenance - online tool for that, which has already been linked to

    work out how much you NEED to live - check 2 bed rentals in your area, have a look at council tax costs (i would estimate a band B or C for a 2 bed house/flat), add on say 30 a week for food, 60 a month for gas and elec, 20 a month for broadband and phone and then any other normal outgoings you will have such as mobile phone, TV license, commuting costs, debt repayments etc, honestly i cant stress enough how helpful a statement of affairs can be for this as it will list things you might not think about (and i havent listed like hair cuts)

    see how much you have left over, IF ANY!

    you can now decide how much, if any, you are willing to pay to your ex over and above the basic child maintenance.

    once you have worked this out you can 'present' your offer to your ex to discus - although do not be surprised if you have to show your ex the break down of the living costs you will need - once again a very good reason to get a SOA sorted. in my experience when i seperated from my ex wife, she did not believe how much it was going to cost me to live, and was only able to consider what she needed. your ex might be different, but be prepared is probably the best solution

    do not worry about her buying you out just yet, or you buying her out, just sort the current living issues out and current finances. the buying out of the house will be a long term discussion and not something you want to rush into agreeing, especially not without full financial disclosure and legal advice, which will take time, so really, just try to park that for the moment, whilst you sort out the most pressing issues of how you are going to live right now.
    Last edited by gonzo127; 30-11-2017 at 9:13 AM.
    Drop a brand challenge
    on a 100 shop you might on average get 70 items save
    10p per product = 7 a week ~ 28 a month
    20p per product = 14 a week ~ 56 a month
    30p per product = 21 a week ~ 84 a month (or in other words one weeks shoping at the new price)
    • triple choc chip
    • By triple choc chip 30th Nov 17, 6:44 PM
    • 856 Posts
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    triple choc chip
    http://www.stoozing.com/calculator/soa.php

    Here's the link to the statement of affairs (SOA)
    Life's greatest satisfactions: Getting the last laugh, having the last word and paying the last instalment.
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    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 29th Jan 18, 2:07 PM
    • 54 Posts
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    trojan10_om
    Thank you for all of your advice before Christmas, I have followed all of the steps and sadly communication started to go downhill between my ex and I as soon as the mediation process started.

    We have both sent many emails backwards and forwards, but now I have just received a message that there will be no further communication between us except for emergencies (with the exception of mediation I would assume).

    I have already had an 1 hour appointment with a solicitor at a fixed rate of 100 - I learned little from this that I didn't already know from this thread. I now have the option of appointing the solicitor at a rate of 195/hour + VAT (seems about the going rate?)

    Do you have any advice on getting the most out of the solicitor at this point?

    My biggest concerns are:
    • She is denying me any access to the house
    • I agreed to pay 400 (child maintenance) and half the mortgage up until May on the condition I can look after the children in the family house on my days - this has worked well so far, but today she has said that this will no longer be permitted.
    • The division of house equity - obviously this is complex and based on the children's needs. She has indicated her preference to stay in the house and buying me out financed by her dad. If we agreed say 40% to me, how is that going to effect what we I need to pay in maintenance
    • Our possessions- nothing we jointly own is valued at over 500 and all the advice I receive is that it won't be worth a legal battle. But the vast majority of possessions are in the house still.

    I'm obviously quite daunted about the task ahead, and will continue to seek professional advice. I'm concerned now that she has decided to cut off communication the cost of this separation are going to skyrocket with solicitors fees.

    I'm not convinced about continuing mediation (it's 100 each per hour), it's achieved very little so far and it just seems so unstructured.
    • Money maker
    • By Money maker 29th Jan 18, 2:34 PM
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    Money maker
    You have my sympathies. Whilst you wait for someone else more knowledgeable to come along, she cannot deny you access to your house if it is jointly owned. Moving back in should encourage her to make some decisions.
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    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 29th Jan 18, 2:43 PM
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    trojan10_om
    You have my sympathies. Whilst you wait for someone else more knowledgeable to come along, she cannot deny you access to your house if it is jointly owned. Moving back in should encourage her to make some decisions.
    Originally posted by Money maker
    Thanks for your support, I wouldn't even consider moving back in. The tension wouldn't go unnoticed by the children.

    She would use phrases like 'harassment' when I've suggested such option in the past.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 29th Jan 18, 5:26 PM
    • 6,487 Posts
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    TBagpuss
    Thank you for all of your advice before Christmas, I have followed all of the steps and sadly communication started to go downhill between my ex and I as soon as the mediation process started.

    We have both sent many emails backwards and forwards, but now I have just received a message that there will be no further communication between us except for emergencies (with the exception of mediation I would assume).

    I have already had an 1 hour appointment with a solicitor at a fixed rate of 100 - I learned little from this that I didn't already know from this thread. I now have the option of appointing the solicitor at a rate of 195/hour + VAT (seems about the going rate?)

    Do you have any advice on getting the most out of the solicitor at this point?

    My biggest concerns are:
    • She is denying me any access to the house
    • I agreed to pay 400 (child maintenance) and half the mortgage up until May on the condition I can look after the children in the family house on my days - this has worked well so far, but today she has said that this will no longer be permitted.
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    • Frustrating, but long term you would not be expecting to share the house. It may be wise to suggest that you sirt out hw to split the home contents and then 'call it quits'
      Make a list of any personal stuff of yours still at he house, and a list of furnishings and other home contents you'd like, and try to agree those lists with her and arrange a time to go to collect your things.

      It would not be unreasonable to say that you can't continue to pay the mortgage if the basis on which you agreed to pay it has changed, however, it isn't in either of your interests to let the mortgage go into arrears to continuing to pay for another month or so may be the least-worst option.

      Is the 400 based on the CMS calculation?
    • The division of house equity - obviously this is complex and based on the children's needs. She has indicated her preference to stay in the house and buying me out financed by her dad. If we agreed say 40% to me, how is that going to effect what we I need to pay in maintenance
    It isn't. Maintenance is based on your income,
    how the equity is split is based on what is fair and practical taking into account your respective needs and resources.
    How do your earning capacities compare? Do you earn more than her?

  • Our possessions- nothing we jointly own is valued at over 500 and all the advice I receive is that it won't be worth a legal battle. But the vast majority of possessions are in the house still.

See above. It's correct that fighting over home contents is rarely costs effective, as all a court can do if you don't agree is to order that they be sold and any proceeds split, and second hand furniture isn't worth much. But making a list of which items you'd like so that the contents are divided is not unreasonable. It would normally be reasonable to leave the children's furniture in the house if they have that as their primary home, but not unreasonable to divide up stuff like the rest of the furniture,
kitchen a contents, bed linen etc so both of you has some stuff and both have to buy some replacements.

I'm obviously quite daunted about the task ahead, and will continue to seek professional advice. I'm concerned now that she has decided to cut off communication the cost of this separation are going to skyrocket with solicitors fees.

I'm not convinced about continuing mediation (it's 100 each per hour), it's achieved very little so far and it just seems so unstructured.
you could consider looking for a solicitor who is also a collaborative lawyer, and exploring the option of collaborative law. It is similar to mediation but more structured,
and with more incentive to stick with the process. You can also ask your solicitor (if you don't want to use the Collaborative process) to suggest a round table meeting, which could involve you and your ex, and both solicitors, which can be a way of trying to reach agreement without going to court, but in a more formal setting than mediation.
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 2nd Feb 18, 8:59 AM
    • 54 Posts
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    trojan10_om
    [COLOR="Red"]Frustrating, but long term you would not be expecting to share the house. It may be wise to suggest that you sirt out hw to split the home contents and then 'call it quits'
    Make a list of any personal stuff of yours still at he house, and a list of furnishings and other home contents you'd like, and try to agree those lists with her and arrange a time to go to collect your things.

    It would not be unreasonable to say that you can't continue to pay the mortgage if the basis on which you agreed to pay it has changed, however, it isn't in either of your interests to let the mortgage go into arrears to continuing to pay for another month or so may be the least-worst option.

    Is the 400 based on the CMS calculation?

    It isn't. Maintenance is based on your income,
    how the equity is split is based on what is fair and practical taking into account your respective needs and resources.
    How do your earning capacities compare? Do you earn more than her?



    See above. It's correct that fighting over home contents is rarely costs effective, as all a court can do if you don't agree is to order that they be sold and any proceeds split, and second hand furniture isn't worth much. But making a list of which items you'd like so that the contents are divided is not unreasonable. It would normally be reasonable to leave the children's furniture in the house if they have that as their primary home, but not unreasonable to divide up stuff like the rest of the furniture,
    kitchen a contents, bed linen etc so both of you has some stuff and both have to buy some replacements.


    you could consider looking for a solicitor who is also a collaborative lawyer, and exploring the option of collaborative law. It is similar to mediation but more structured,
    and with more incentive to stick with the process. You can also ask your solicitor (if you don't want to use the Collaborative process) to suggest a round table meeting, which could involve you and your ex, and both solicitors, which can be a way of trying to reach agreement without going to court, but in a more formal setting than mediation.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    Thank you, this helps put things into perspective. House access, possessions and the mortgage payment really are minor issues.

    As of yesterday I've had confirmation she no longer wants to participate in mediation. She also has asked me not to contact about her except for emergencies. Should I write to her solicitor asking for 2 days access to the house to 1. get my own valuation of the property and 2. make a list of the possessions. I don't even have keys to the new porch door (installed just before I moved out), should I ask for these?

    With the equity of the house, I feel this is where she will try it on the most. Her financial disclosure was quite outrageous. Her monthly expenditure was claimed to be 3,000 - which is 85% of our combined net earnings. Within this only a very small part was personal/leisure costs the rest being inflated predictions of expenditure on the children and 850 a month on a nanny.

    I completed mine as honestly as possibly, is this going to count against me now?
    Last edited by trojan10_om; 02-02-2018 at 3:46 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Feb 18, 10:12 AM
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    Comms69
    Thanks for your support, I wouldn't even consider moving back in. The tension wouldn't go unnoticed by the children.

    She would use phrases like 'harassment' when I've suggested such option in the past.
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    you cannot be considered to be harassing someone purely by being in your own residence. Whilst there may be short term tension, it does tend to speed things along.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Feb 18, 10:15 AM
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    Comms69
    Thank you, this helps put things into perspective. House access, possessions and the mortgage payment really are minor issues.

    As of yesterday I've had confirmation she no longer wants to participate in mediation. She also has asked me not to contact about her except for emergencies. Should I write to her solicitor asking for 2 days access to the house to 1. get my own valuation of the property and 2. make a list of the possessions. I don't even have keys to the new porch door (installed just before I moved out), should I ask for these? - Ask? requests have 2 options: yes and no. You require access and you require the keys. Failure to provide will result in you calling a locksmith and having the locks changed.

    With the equity of the house, I feel this is where she will try it on the most. Her financial disclosure was quite outrageous. Her monthly expenditure was claimed to be 3,000 - which is 85% of our combined net earnings. Within this only a very small part was personal/leisure costs the rest being inflated predictions of expenditure on the children and 850 a month on a nanny. - Irrelevant.

    I completed mine as honestly as possibly, is this going to count against me know?
    Originally posted by trojan10_om

    Not necessarily. the cost of the nanny may as well be binned right from the get go. There is cheaper childcare options
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 2nd Feb 18, 4:06 PM
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    trojan10_om
    Not necessarily. the cost of the nanny may as well be binned right from the get go. There is cheaper childcare options
    Originally posted by Comms69
    So the 'needs' of the children calculation are on far more basic needs than that then?

    Same would apply for the 50 budget for attending children's parties every month!?
    Last edited by trojan10_om; 02-02-2018 at 4:19 PM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 2nd Feb 18, 4:15 PM
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    Comms69
    So the 'needs' of the children calculation are on far more basic needs than that then?

    Same would apply for the 50 budget for attending children's party every month!?
    Originally posted by trojan10_om
    Ofcourse. Do you currently spend 50 of attending parties or the better part of 1000 on a nanny?
    • Starrystarrynight1
    • By Starrystarrynight1 3rd Feb 18, 6:40 PM
    • 193 Posts
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    Starrystarrynight1
    As far as I'm aware, you can't be denied access to your own house. Your solicitor should write to her to ask for a set of keys.

    Also, you've mentioned your father in law's financial contribution to the house. Do you have a signed agreement between you, detailing this is a loan only and showing the repayment terms? If not, this can't be taken into account when working out your share of the equity. It'll be treated as a gift. Something else to ask your solicitor about.

    I'm sorry to hear that things have gone downhill. Hope you get good legal advice which will help bring this to a close without you losing out.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Feb 18, 10:06 AM
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    Comms69
    As far as I'm aware, you can't be denied access to your own house. Your solicitor should write to her to ask for a set of keys.

    Also, you've mentioned your father in law's financial contribution to the house. Do you have a signed agreement between you, detailing this is a loan only and showing the repayment terms? If not, this can't be taken into account when working out your share of the equity. It'll be treated as a gift. Something else to ask your solicitor about.

    I'm sorry to hear that things have gone downhill. Hope you get good legal advice which will help bring this to a close without you losing out.
    Originally posted by Starrystarrynight1
    Unless there is a Non-Mol, Occupation or similar court order.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 5th Feb 18, 1:59 PM
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    TBagpuss
    you cannot be considered to be harassing someone purely by being in your own residence. Whilst there may be short term tension, it does tend to speed things along.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    YEs, you absolutely can be be considered to be harassing someone even if it relates to you being in (or attempting to be in) a jointly owned property.
    Speak to your solicitor before you make any attempt to access the property.

    If she has said she doesn't want you contact her except in emergencies, then don't contact her unless there is an emergency.

    It wouldn't normally be reasonable to ask for 2 days in the property. In relation to valuations, suggest (via your solicitor ) 3 local estate agents. propose that all thre re asked to attend and give marketing advice and that you want to be present during their viewings.

    They would then all provide advice to you both, and hopefully you would be able to agree a value based on their advice. If she doesn't want that or you can't agree, the alternative is a formal valuation by a surveyor, in which case it's done with written instructions (which include reminding them they are acting for you both, and that they must note any separate conversations or information they have with or from wither of you) and normally neither of you would be present when they inspect the property.

    it would be reasonable to agree a mutually convenient day and time for you to go to the property to retrieve anything you've both agreed you should collect, and to make a list of anything further you want. She can chose whether she wants to be there, or to be either with a 3rd party, or to have a 3rd party there on her behalf. Equally you can decide whether you want to have someone with you.

    Your solicitor will be familiar with these sorts of issues and is best placed to advise you
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Feb 18, 2:13 PM
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    Comms69
    YEs, you absolutely can be be considered to be harassing someone even if it relates to you being in (or attempting to be in) a jointly owned property. - read it again, I used the word 'purely'. There are other factors that can make it harassment, but simply living in your own house cannot be harassment.
    Speak to your solicitor before you make any attempt to access the property.

    If she has said she doesn't want you contact her except in emergencies, then don't contact her unless there is an emergency. - agreed.

    It wouldn't normally be reasonable to ask for 2 days in the property. In relation to valuations, suggest (via your solicitor ) 3 local estate agents. propose that all thre re asked to attend and give marketing advice and that you want to be present during their viewings.

    They would then all provide advice to you both, and hopefully you would be able to agree a value based on their advice. If she doesn't want that or you can't agree, the alternative is a formal valuation by a surveyor, in which case it's done with written instructions (which include reminding them they are acting for you both, and that they must note any separate conversations or information they have with or from wither of you) and normally neither of you would be present when they inspect the property.

    it would be reasonable to agree a mutually convenient day and time for you to go to the property to retrieve anything you've both agreed you should collect, and to make a list of anything further you want. She can chose whether she wants to be there, or to be either with a 3rd party, or to have a 3rd party there on her behalf. Equally you can decide whether you want to have someone with you.

    Your solicitor will be familiar with these sorts of issues and is best placed to advise you
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    I agree with most of what you're saying to be fair. But the point about being in the house - she doesn't have her cake and eat it. Either buy him out or accept that it's still part his (or 100% his, if joint tenants)
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 6th Feb 18, 12:37 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    trojan10_om
    YEs, you absolutely can be be considered to be harassing someone even if it relates to you being in (or attempting to be in) a jointly owned property.
    Speak to your solicitor before you make any attempt to access the property.

    If she has said she doesn't want you contact her except in emergencies, then don't contact her unless there is an emergency.

    It wouldn't normally be reasonable to ask for 2 days in the property. In relation to valuations, suggest (via your solicitor ) 3 local estate agents. propose that all thre re asked to attend and give marketing advice and that you want to be present during their viewings.

    They would then all provide advice to you both, and hopefully you would be able to agree a value based on their advice. If she doesn't want that or you can't agree, the alternative is a formal valuation by a surveyor, in which case it's done with written instructions (which include reminding them they are acting for you both, and that they must note any separate conversations or information they have with or from wither of you) and normally neither of you would be present when they inspect the property.

    it would be reasonable to agree a mutually convenient day and time for you to go to the property to retrieve anything you've both agreed you should collect, and to make a list of anything further you want. She can chose whether she wants to be there, or to be either with a 3rd party, or to have a 3rd party there on her behalf. Equally you can decide whether you want to have someone with you.

    Your solicitor will be familiar with these sorts of issues and is best placed to advise you
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    I wrote to her solicitor requesting 2 days in the property to get estate agents valuations and to list property I have an interest in. Still waiting a response.

    She has had some valuations done, they are quite modest values (perhaps based on the option of her dad buying me out).
    • trojan10_om
    • By trojan10_om 6th Feb 18, 12:44 PM
    • 54 Posts
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    trojan10_om
    As far as I'm aware, you can't be denied access to your own house. Your solicitor should write to her to ask for a set of keys.

    Also, you've mentioned your father in law's financial contribution to the house. Do you have a signed agreement between you, detailing this is a loan only and showing the repayment terms? If not, this can't be taken into account when working out your share of the equity. It'll be treated as a gift. Something else to ask your solicitor about.

    I'm sorry to hear that things have gone downhill. Hope you get good legal advice which will help bring this to a close without you losing out.
    Originally posted by Starrystarrynight1
    Yes there is a signed memorandum. The repayment is due 'upon the sale of the property'
    • Alias_Omega
    • By Alias_Omega 12th Feb 18, 9:36 PM
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    Alias_Omega
    Just popping by to bump this thread and say "hi".

    I am in a similar position as you, today is Day-1 for me (Wedding Ring Returned etc) and i hope things blow over and back to "Normal".

    If things dont go well, ill be following your thread on things to do, steps to take etc.

    AO

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