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  • FIRST POST
    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 23rd Nov 17, 4:50 PM
    • 27Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    NPM Northampton Appeal Lost
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 17, 4:50 PM
    NPM Northampton Appeal Lost 23rd Nov 17 at 4:50 PM
    Right so I'been stung by these a-holes twice in a week now.

    Fighting Smart Parking by going through POPLA was easy and thank you for all of your help previously.

    The problem I have this time is that NPM have got me twice in my company car. They sent the PCN to the lease hire company who subsequently passed it onto myself. I sent the IPC appeal letter but NPM have snubbed it, providing no real evidence or answers as usual.

    Normally I would just ignore and wait (like I did with my first PCN on my own car with NPM) but the problem I have is that the lease hire company have threatened to pay up in the event the appeal is declined then subtract the money from my wages!

    I initially contacted the lease company asking them to transfer liability to take them out of the equation which, for some reason, they declined to do so now the appeal is lost, I'm concerned about wage deduction.

    Long story short, NPM have control over a private road where I live in a block of flats. I was issued with a visitors permit which was clearly displayed however they claim it is invalid (the permit was issued to me by the estate agents)

    My other PCN which happened a few days later shows no permit, however as always their signage is misleading and the driver forgot to display it that day- not that it matters as apparently they deem it invalid anyway!

    So my question is, what is the next step? If I tell the lease company and my head office I lost they appeal, they will pay up and claim back the charge to me, plus charge me an additional 15 admin fee per PCN. Is it recommended to appeal to the IAS?

    Thank you!
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Jan 18, 11:32 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    NPM control the majority of roads and car parks near me
    Really?

    That's unusual, surely the streets are public highway, not private, and you can park overnight? You really should park elsewhere - you are being set up for a huge court claim. Very stressful.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 4th Feb 18, 8:30 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    Really?

    That's unusual, surely the streets are public highway, not private, and you can park overnight? You really should park elsewhere - you are being set up for a huge court claim. Very stressful.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Correct. They're either double yellows or private roads.

    So you think this constant barage is an attempt at pursuing legal action? It's been two weeks and I've had no reply from my mp or non regarding the letter you suggested I write
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Feb 18, 9:04 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    ...you think this constant barrage is an attempt at pursuing legal action?
    Originally posted by Bunglebear32
    Almost certainly, as you fit the perfect profile of a multi-ticket case:

    I have now accumulated 8 PCNs since October from these cowboys for my works vehicle and 3 for my personal car.
    They will paint you as a repeat 'offender' and it will cost them a really small fee (under 90) to file a claim for a 4 figure sum. They are bound to choose you, IMHO. What's to lose, for them? They will hope you get scared and pay.

    We help people with multi-PCN defences every week.

    Seriously I would put your car elsewhere and use public transport until this is sorted. Sounds like a truly horrible place to live. One poster writing a defence today remarked that his girlfriend had half a dozen CCJs from a PPC at her place of residence and she moved away to escape.

    Utterly horrible situation, as mentioned in the Parliamentary debate on Friday:

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2018-02-02a.1149.0&p=11026

    MPs are horrified by residents being pursued for parking at their own homes. So are we.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 5th Feb 18, 7:28 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    Thank you Coupon Mad. I cannot wait for my AST to end so we can move elsewhere. The stress isn't doing my girlfriend who's 32 weeks pregnant much good!

    All I've been doing recently is appealing to every PCN using the newbies template but NPM aren't even bothering to reply to the appeals now. I'll chase the landowners again today as useless as they are.
    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 9th Mar 18, 7:58 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    **UPDATE**

    I contacted NPM declaring myself as the driver and contacted my MP asking him to review the parking situation and help with my personal matter of both having nowhere to park my compulsory vehicle and as such receiving 1400 of PCNS from NPM.

    He has been useless and has simply sent me a copy of the letter from the landowners stating that they employ NPM to manage the road and that it's tough luck (in as many words)

    Additionally, my company have had two letters from ZZPS demanding payment for two pcns and have now paid up and are trying to deduct this from my pay along with plenty of admin fees totalling about 400

    Very stressful!! I have since found a very small section of road outside people's houses by me where there is no signage and have touchwood received no PCNs yet!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 8:02 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Additionally, my company have had two letters from ZZPS demanding payment for two pcns and have now paid up and are trying to deduct this from my pay along with plenty of admin fees totalling about 400
    So despite you appealing as driver, for those two PCNs, ZZPS went behind that liability and demanded the money from the registered keeper and they paid?

    As your MP is useless, how about telling this entire story to:

    - the press

    and

    - Sir Greg Knight MP, email his office.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 9th Mar 18, 8:27 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    Hi CM

    I sent NPM a letter which they replied to a month later. I stated that all PCN appealed relating to the works vehicle that I was the driver. On two (out of 5) PCNs they ignored this (along with my details in the initial appeals) and sought payment from my company which they paid. I've checked through my handbook and it says traffic and parking violations, speeding fines and fixed penalty notices must be paid by the driver but no mention of private invoices.

    Going to press was my next step. Local or national?

    I will write to my MP again as, going by the reply I received, it looks like the only question he put to Bellway was "Who manages this road?"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 8:36 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Go for local and national press, look for names of journalists who write about private parking scams.

    Your MP and Trading Standards should be appraised by you of the law and how ZZPS have gone behind an admitted driver liability, and suctioned the money from the registered keeper when THEY CANNOT DO THAT AFTER THE DRIVER IS KNOWN.

    You will have to spell out to TS and your MP, quoting from the POFA to explain why this is not allowed in law (the clause about 'the right to recover the money from the registered keeper ceases to apply if...').
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 9th Mar 18, 8:48 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    As these two date back to November and December, I think NPM referred them to ZZPS before I sent the letter to NPM? I'll need to try and find dates but I emailed NPM in mid January declaring myself the driver and they advised me towards the end of February that ZZPS now had it. The owner of NPM claims they had not had my letter brought to their attention, despite including the email I sent them within the email chain/ thread
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 8:54 PM
    • 57,390 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    He would say that, wouldn't he?

    ZZPS are NPM's agents and MUST be informed by NPM, if liability shifted to the driver, otherwise they are pursuing the wring party...oh wait...isn't that the plan...?

    Did you know ZZPS have form for doing this already in other cases we have seen recently on here? In both the recent cases I am thinking of, it was ZZPS acting for a BPA member PPC, and ZZPS reverted back to demand money from the registered keeper even though the driver had appealed.

    Someone's elderly Dad rk actually paid. You can find the thread by searching 'elderly Dad paid ZZPS' I expect. Only this year. And there was another case where ZZPS tried the same trick.

    You are not the only one and this needs exposing.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 9th Mar 18, 9:10 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    Just looked back at my dates and appeals and I definitely declared myself the driver before the second notifications came through. This is making life quote difficult at work with constant messages from payroll wanting to pass the cost onto me, with me only refusing each time. Re-reading NPMS email it looks at though I've got another two coming my way too!

    Off to the press and Sir Greg Knight (even though I struggle to take him seriously thanks to his corny election video!)
    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 9th Mar 18, 9:14 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    And thank you for the advice,. I'll check it out
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 9:18 PM
    • 57,390 Posts
    • 70,992 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Just looked back at my dates and appeals and I definitely declared myself the driver before the second notifications came through. This is making life quote difficult at work with constant messages from payroll wanting to pass the cost onto me, with me only refusing each time. Re-reading NPMS email it looks at though I've got another two coming my way too!
    Originally posted by Bunglebear32
    I would reply to NPM and demand a refund, because their agent has wilfully demanded money from a non-liable party, after the driver's name and address was known, and this is unsupported in law.

    Tell the owner of NPM that you are not only reporting this on a national forum but are now going to the local and national press, and reporting the unwarranted sequence of events - and the fact Schedule 4 positively removes the right to rk liability once the driver's details are known - to your local Trading Standards and to Sir Greg Knight MP, in the hope that he raises your case in the House of Commons to publicise what ZZPS are doing.

    Keep putting the pressure on, and do include TS in your complaints, and do quote the part of Sch4 that says the right 'ceases to apply' You know that, we know that, but none of the people you are complaining to will know. TS are not versed in this part of the Act.

    At the end of the day, you could serve a Letter before Claim, then a claim, against NPM for a 4 figure sum for unwarranted harassment by their agents ZZPS (a la Ferguson v British Gas) that has directly caused you quantifiable loss, as well as damages for significant distress and the affect on your reputation at work as well.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-03-2018 at 9:21 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 9th Mar 18, 9:30 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    I have already sent a letter to my head office explaining that the lease firm have actually made matters worse for themselves. Rather than naming me as the driver when they received the PCNs, thus avoiding any liability and transfering it to, they decided to simply scan the PCN, email it to me and charge for a 15 admin fee. Ultimately they've ended up paying the invoice, despite me telling them not to, and as a result will be out of pocket. To an extent I don't want to fight too hard for a refund as this should be a lesson to them. I think I'll have reasonable enough evidence to suggest why I shouldn't have to 'reimburse' them. Correct me if I'm wrong
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 9:32 PM
    • 57,390 Posts
    • 70,992 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I think I would be more concerned about keeping things sweet with your employers, because on pepipoo I recall a person who objected vociferously about a similar situation, lost their job.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Bunglebear32
    • By Bunglebear32 18th Apr 18, 6:50 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Bunglebear32
    A man in Northampton was mentioned in the local paper yesterday regarding his experience with NPM

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/northampton-man-fined-1-100-for-parking-outside-his-home-1-8464064/amp
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