Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 21st Nov 17, 12:53 PM
    • 36Posts
    • 21Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Help Please! Parking Fine County Court Pack
    • #1
    • 21st Nov 17, 12:53 PM
    Help Please! Parking Fine County Court Pack 21st Nov 17 at 12:53 PM
    Hi all

    I wondered if someone could please give me some advice?

    Last winter I paid to park in a S.I.P private car park for three hours for Christmas shopping. After shopping we went for something to eat - the restaurant was heaving (Xmas!), food hadn't arrived yet and I only had half an hour left on my parking, so I rang up the above company (premium rate line - cost me more than the extra hour of parking!) to pay. The customer service lady wanted me to read out my card number - as I was surrounded by strangers, I asked if I could pay online instead. She gave me the website and the location number (I checked it twice with her!). I then went to the website, paid for the hour and then got back to the car and had a ticket! I just presumed they hadn't checked their computer system and had gone by the physical ticket on the windscreen which had expired 20 mins before, so wasn't too concerned. I then forgot all about it until (I think March/May) I got a letter. I rang up, couldn't get through to a human so I emailed them explaining the above and that I'd paid for the extra hour. I received an automated response but heard nothing back from a human, so thought they'd accepted my explanation.

    Two months ago I received a letter from their solicitors asking me to pay a whopping fine or to send any defence, which I did. I got a copy of my phone bill showing the £4 call to them on the date (half an hour BEFORE the ticket expired), along with a copy of my bank statement showing the payment of £4-ish for the extra hour coming out of my account. The solicitor replied saying I have paid the wrong company - Manchester Parking NOT S.I.P! I rang S.I.P and was given the location number by S.I.P. - checked twice!

    My colleague has advised me that the parking company's own customer services number probably routed through to a national call centre (Pay By Parking) as many of them do; so the woman has probably given me the wrong location code.

    A week later I've now been sent a county court pack asking me whether I wish to pay £250, acknowledge or defend. I'm so annoyed because I've done nothing wrong for this but I'm very anxious about the prospect of a CCJ as this could affect my job.

    Can anyone please advise? Do I get a solicitor? I've never had anything like this or so much as a speeding ticket before so this is giving me sleepless nights.

    Thanks
Page 4
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Apr 18, 1:04 PM
    • 11,255 Posts
    • 11,815 Thanks
    KeithP
    Last question (sorry) - what can I expect of a Small Claims Court (just as I'm a bit scared!) - is it a big court room with a judge?
    Originally posted by pandorapandora
    These two videos should help:



    .
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 17th Apr 18, 2:18 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Brill, thanks Keith!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 2:38 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,462 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I like those videos, KeithP!

    The only issue is that when forumites are turning up for PPC cases, I don't advise them to try to settle/speak much to the other side's rep, and certainly not take papers from them that might be foisted last-minute (say no).

    The only useful conversation to have if you are up for it and a robust person, might be to find out if their rep is likely to have Rights of Audience (usually not...) which can be challenged in front of the Judge:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74171638#post74171638

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72978085#post72978085

    HTH
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 17th Apr 18, 4:05 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Hi Coupon-Mad

    I've slightly jigged my Witness Statement (and it now says witness rather than defence), adding a couple of final points - can you please let me know what you think?

    Also, should this statement include responses to their statement or the issues around Particulars of Claim etc from my defence? Is there anything else you think I should add? My defence quotes Beavis and their statement (provided above) responds to this and refers to another case too.

    I have tried to remove all apostrophes so it doesnt mess up on here, so apologies for grammar in that respect!

    Many thanks

    DRAFT 2

    1. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge, they are true to the best of my information and belief

    2. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

    3. I assert that I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question in this case. I was the driver and on XX/XX/XX parked on land at XXXX, which is private land on which the Claimant operates, and purchased a Pay and Display ticket in cash from a machine on site, valid 11:08 to 14:08 (as per the photograph provided in evidence by the Claimant).

    4. At XXXX I called the Claimants premium-rate telephone number within plenty of time of the ticket!!!8217;s expiry (see document XX from XX/XX/XXXX, an email from XXX at XXXX, my then mobile telephone network provider, evidencing that at 13:41 on 17/12/2016, I called the Claimants Parking Line on XXXXXXXXX for a call length of 5 mins 43 seconds, and document XX from Google, evidencing that the telephone number on my evidence from EE is/was the telephone number of the Claimant) to seek advice and instruction on if I could extend my parking ticket remotely or if I needed to head back to the car before the 14:08 expiry time. The Claimants representative assured me that I could top-up my existing ticket. I provided my location to the representative as !!!8216;their car park between XXXXXX Street and XXXX Street!!!8217;, as the main entrance with large signage, A-boards and arrows is on XXXXXX Street (see document XX from Google Maps and the photographic evidence provided by the Claimant), but there is another entrance on XXXXX street where !!!8216;IN!!!8217; is written on the wall in paint (see document XX from Google Maps and from the Claimant).

    5. The Claimant!!!8217;s telephone representative asked me to read out my debit card number in order to make payment. As I was in a very busy public location in Manchester City Centre and concerned about possible identity theft, I asked if there was an alternative payment method, and was given a five-digit location code - which I double checked with the representative !!!8211; along with instruction on how to make payment via their website.

    6. On accessing the payment website advised by the Claimant, I was prompted that my email address was registered already for online payment and I needed to enter my password. I had no idea what this password was, and requested a password reset SMS text message, which I received at 13:34, over half an hour before the car parking was due to expire (see document XX), still before the expiry of my parking. I then used the website link from the SMS to access the Claimant!!!8217;s provided website and complete my payment as instructed.

    7. On returning to my car within my extra hour, I found a yellow plastic folder stuck to my windscreen containing a Charge Notice. I presumed that the Claimant had seen my windscreen expiry time of 14:08 and issued this without cross-checking their online system, and thought nothing of it.

    8. I was very busy in my new job at the time and with Christmas the following week I forgot all about it until I received a letter titled Final Reminder from the Claimant dated 08/03/2017 asking for payment of a fine. I responded via email on 24/03/2017 (see document XXX) explaining that I made full payment for the time parked on their land, firstly via Pay & Display and subsequently online as instructed by their Company representative via telephone. I also enclosed a photo of the password reminder SMS from the Claimants Pay By Phone service received at 13:34 17/12/2016, a photo from my bank statement showing payment, and a photo of my payment on the Pay By Phone website.

    9. I received another letter from the Claimant dated 22/05/2017, with increased fines and urgency, and no reference to my requested email. I telephoned them from my office on 24/05/2017 to ask why they had sent another letter when I had already responded to their previous, and was advised to forward this email to them again at the same email address, which I did on 24/05/2017, along with the photographs attached to my previous email. (see document XX). I had never received such letters in my life and these made me very anxious.

    10. I received no response to the email the Claimant requested I resend. The next letter was from the Claimants solicitors, Gladstones, which I acknowledged in writing on 24/07/2017 (see document XX), providing documentation backing my account.

    11. The next letter I received from Gladstones advised that though they could see from my evidence that I had made a payment, the wrong party had been paid for parking rather than their Client and court proceedings were subsequently commenced.

    12. During this court process, I contacted the Pay By Phone service used by the Claimant to ask, out of curiosity, which street the 5-digit location code of XXXXX, provided to me by the Claimant!!!8217;s representative on the day of the incident, actually related to. They confirmed this code as being for Manchester City Council on-street parking bays on XX Street, the same street as the Claimants car park main entrance as per their photograph and my photograph from Google Maps (see document XX). This code is not similar to the location code of the Claimants car park XXXXX as seen in their photographic evidence, and so could not have been a typing error on my part.

    I believe the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 18th Apr 18, 11:26 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Just bumping this to see if anyone can give me some advice on my draft of my Witness Statement above?

    Many thanks
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 27th Apr 18, 10:43 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Hi all

    My court date is at the end of next week - I haven't counter claimed for any costs if I win - how do I go about this please? I have seen the post mentioned above from Sassi about the costs they claimed. I was advised to submit 3/4 days before which would be Monday/Tuesday next week - how do I do this, what costs are reasonable to ask for?

    Thanks
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 27th Apr 18, 10:47 AM
    • 4,126 Posts
    • 4,994 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Costs are not a counter claim. They are a normal part of the claim

    Have you carried on referring to post 2? THat shoudl have links to costs schedules. Send in your scheudle a couple days before teh hearing.

    You have ordinary costs - half day loss of pay OR LEAVE, capped at £95, mileage and parking
    Then yo uhave unreasonable costs - which again you can find out.
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 27th Apr 18, 12:06 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Thanks Nosferatu - I'll go through Post 2
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 2nd May 18, 5:38 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Hi all

    My case with Gladstones is tomorrow PM - I've got two copies of my Witness Statement and evidence photos, proof of sending, proof of postage and have put all my docs in a file, numbered the pages and made myself a Contents page so I can find everything quickly. I've also got a copy of their WS and their photos.

    I am super nervous! Is there anything else I should take? Any other prep I can do now that might help me tomorrow?

    Thanks all for all your help!
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 2nd May 18, 6:08 PM
    • 11,255 Posts
    • 11,815 Thanks
    KeithP
    Is there anything else I should take?
    Originally posted by pandorapandora
    Your costs schedule.
    .
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 2nd May 18, 6:38 PM
    • 2,496 Posts
    • 7,152 Thanks
    bargepole
    Hi all
    I am super nervous! Is there anything else I should take? Any other prep I can do now that might help me tomorrow?
    Originally posted by pandorapandora
    Manchester Court is a large building with lots of floors and lots of hearing rooms. Make sure you know where you are going - I think this is your case:

    In the County Court at Manchester

    Thursday 3 May 2018

    Before District Judge Obodai (with Deputy District Judge Masheder, Deputy District Judge Hamlin & Deputy District Judge Nassar)

    Court 18 - Level 4

    2:00 PM

    D1GF83MQ SIP Parking Ltd -v- P******** 2 hours

    I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 35, lost 10), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and am a Graduate member of CILEx, studying towards a Fellowship (equivalent to solicitor) in Civil Litigation. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 2nd May 18, 9:31 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Yes that's mine! Thank you for that! And thanks Keith I'll make sure to take that too.

    Fingers crossed for the right result!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd May 18, 12:59 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,462 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Get there early and don't accept any papers foisted on you by the rep, outside the hearing room.

    Take proof of salary (a wage slip) with your bundle. Someone didn't get their costs last week when they won, as they couldn't prove lost earnings.
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 3rd May 18, 1:45 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Iím already here Coupon Mad, but I do have one on my phone. So nervous! Wish me luck!
    • PenIsland
    • By PenIsland 3rd May 18, 2:14 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    PenIsland
    Good luck - I am sure you will be fine. The judges are human beings.

    Oh and in anticipation of tomorrow - May the Fourth be with you
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 3rd May 18, 3:48 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    I won!!!
    Thanks a million to everyone on here for your advice, help, tips and pointers!
    • PenIsland
    • By PenIsland 3rd May 18, 3:50 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    PenIsland
    Excellent news - well done!

    Did you get costs as well?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd May 18, 3:52 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,462 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yay!

    Well done to you!

    Calm down and tonight or over the weekend, please give us a court report! Name the Judge, court and tell us as much as you can remember about what happened, like this winner also did:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5757012&page=4

    More detail in your 'court report' would be good, including what happened when you arrived outside the hearing room and eyeballed the rep! Whether the Judge took some persuading, and what fact (or omission by the Claimant) turned the decision in your favour.
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 3rd May 18, 4:00 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Sorry I just got out of court and didn!!!8217;t mean to press send - I WON!!!! Thank you all!!!
    • pandorapandora
    • By pandorapandora 3rd May 18, 4:01 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    pandorapandora
    Coupon Mad thank you! I will write everything up over the weekend
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

235Posts Today

1,357Users online

Martin's Twitter