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    • eeetee
    • By eeetee 20th Nov 17, 1:19 PM
    • 122Posts
    • 1,344Thanks
    eeetee
    Deposit return
    • #1
    • 20th Nov 17, 1:19 PM
    Deposit return 20th Nov 17 at 1:19 PM
    Hi all, looking for some advice as this is a new situation for me.
    I ended my tendency recently and requested the deposit return via the protection scheme that was used. They have informed me the landlord intends to keep the entirety of it. In all honesty I am shocked at that, I went to great measures to leave the property as I found it, and actually left it in a better state than when entered e.g. Paid for carpet cleaning of (previously stained carpets) etc. I have asked for more details from the landlord, specifics of what they deem need cleaning, I just wanted to understand what can happen from here, I understand that should I see fit I can open a dispute via the protection scheme, I just wondered how this works in practise. Whilst I expected the landlord to keep some of the deposit (human nature I'd suggest, to take as much as possible) I am at a lost to understand how they assess the entirety of the amount should be retained. I am just interested in hearing from other similar experiences as I proceed with this.
Page 1
    • aneary
    • By aneary 20th Nov 17, 1:26 PM
    • 887 Posts
    • 836 Thanks
    aneary
    • #2
    • 20th Nov 17, 1:26 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Nov 17, 1:26 PM
    I had to raise a dispute with the deposit scheme to get the LL to return the deposit he claimed that he needed 180 for cleaning despite the check in report saying overall cleaning condition poor and the check out report saying overall cleaning condition good, I got the full deposit back but it was delayed by a month or so.

    Do you have pictures when you moved in and when you moved out.

    I would open the dispute now they have 2 weeks to respond the longer you leave it the longer it will take to resolve if the LL wants to keep all the deposit G_Ms normal cake and tea suggestion is unlikely to work.
    • elverson
    • By elverson 20th Nov 17, 2:26 PM
    • 784 Posts
    • 502 Thanks
    elverson
    • #3
    • 20th Nov 17, 2:26 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Nov 17, 2:26 PM
    Sounds like the landlord is trying it on. Just dispute it through the scheme, you should get it all back but reply on here if not.
    • Gawatate
    • By Gawatate 20th Nov 17, 2:53 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 45 Thanks
    Gawatate
    • #4
    • 20th Nov 17, 2:53 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Nov 17, 2:53 PM
    I helped a friend get all hers back too after raising a dispute. Give as much evidence as possible in your dispute down to the receipt from your carpet cleaning etc . If you have before moving in pictures, inventory list and after moving out pictures this will be the best. Once the landlord realised we had opened a dispute he wanted to start negotiations with us but we decided to play hard ball, i mean he wanted to charge 44 for a bulb that did not work the 2 years my friend lived in the flat!....
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 20th Nov 17, 3:04 PM
    • 6,380 Posts
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    00ec25
    • #5
    • 20th Nov 17, 3:04 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Nov 17, 3:04 PM
    I understand that should I see fit I can open a dispute via the protection scheme, I just wondered how this works in practise.
    Originally posted by eeetee
    no should about it, you will not a get penny back unless you dispute it, otherwise the scheme will assume you agree that that LL is entitled to request it all

    the schemes were set up to deal with this situation, so use them and let them. the process is explained in the guide on their website
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 20th Nov 17, 3:58 PM
    • 16,681 Posts
    • 41,268 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #6
    • 20th Nov 17, 3:58 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Nov 17, 3:58 PM
    The onus will be on the LL to make a case as to why they should keep the deposit with evidence such as the ast (if for instance the contract says you were responsible to maintaining the garden but you didn't), check in report, check out report, pictures and quotes.

    Of course if you can provide evidence to the contrary, the better.

    You now need to respond to say that you don't agree to their proposal. The deposit company might suggest you try to negotiate again, so there'll be another round until you both agree to use the ADR service.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 20th Nov 17, 5:48 PM
    • 44,068 Posts
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    G_M
    • #7
    • 20th Nov 17, 5:48 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Nov 17, 5:48 PM
    Read


    * Deposits:
    payment, protection and return
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 20th Nov 17, 7:24 PM
    • 16,681 Posts
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    FBaby
    • #8
    • 20th Nov 17, 7:24 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Nov 17, 7:24 PM
    Just a thought did you give correct notice? They could be keeping the deposit for what they consider unpaid rent rather than cleanliness
    • eeetee
    • By eeetee 21st Nov 17, 7:29 AM
    • 122 Posts
    • 1,344 Thanks
    eeetee
    • #9
    • 21st Nov 17, 7:29 AM
    • #9
    • 21st Nov 17, 7:29 AM
    Thanks all for your replies. I will open a dispute Via the scheme. I am waiting to receive a report from the letting agency/ landlord detailing the necessary "repairs"/ "cleaning" required. I wouldn't mind, but I actually went out of my way to clean, the ineventory has photos of move-in state but I also have photos of my own and on move out day. The letting agency have been a pain to deal with since my time there, never getting back to you, no record of phone calls so I am wondering if they even have a record of when I amended the inventory to take into account existing damage. I gave correct notice but yet I think the ll is trying it on.
    • smem18
    • By smem18 21st Nov 17, 5:28 PM
    • 51 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    smem18
    You will be asked to supply a copy of your tenancy agreement and any other evidence such as photos and the check in inventory. Unless there were really significant damages, your landlord will probably have quite a hard time justifying that they should keep the whole entire deposit. It sounds unreasonable.

    I went through dispute last year when my landlord tried to charge me 300 to have a specialist curtain dry cleaner dry clean and rehang the (already clean) curtains - which were in fact better described as unlined, poorly cut linen sheets. It was very simple and the landlord had to try and prove that the curtains were in a less clean state than when we moved in. Of course they couldn't and we got all our money back. Do not let a landlord fob you off!
    • eeetee
    • By eeetee 24th Nov 17, 1:48 PM
    • 122 Posts
    • 1,344 Thanks
    eeetee
    Yes it is clear the LL is trying it on, I am quite looking forward to proving her wrong!
    On a related issue, I am due back some excess rent, having paid the month but handed keys on the 15th, how long should I give before I start to get impatient? I made a request for return on day of key handover.
    • elverson
    • By elverson 24th Nov 17, 2:10 PM
    • 784 Posts
    • 502 Thanks
    elverson
    Did your tenancy actually end on the 15th?
    • eeetee
    • By eeetee 29th Nov 17, 1:52 PM
    • 122 Posts
    • 1,344 Thanks
    eeetee
    Did your tenancy actually end on the 15th?
    Originally posted by elverson
    Yes and I gave the 2.month notice on 15 sept
    • eeetee
    • By eeetee 22nd Dec 17, 1:34 PM
    • 122 Posts
    • 1,344 Thanks
    eeetee
    To update this post: I have since (eventually) received the excess rent back due. I have recently received update from the LL providing evidence with regards to the dispute over deposit return. The 3 main reasons for her claiming to keep deposit are for cleaning and damage and possession removal. for the cleaning she has provided an invoice of a deep clean that was deemed necessary and for damage images of damage to the sofa. I now can provide my evidence. My argument will be that the sofa (15 years old) was wear and tear, and not intentionally damaged, but this will be difficult to argue? I mean, what is the average life of a sofa? I undertook the cleaning of the property myself, and whilst I was thourough it would seem not to the standard the LL was expecting. My argument here though is that I cleaned it to the standard I found upon entering, but am somewhat resigned to having to negotiate the cleaning fee though. For the possessions she deemed needed removing, they were all present upon entry (and listed in inventory) so eveidence available. TBH I am a little offended by her comments, she has claimed the property was 'cluttered' which bears no relevance to the issue at hand.
    • aneary
    • By aneary 22nd Dec 17, 1:38 PM
    • 887 Posts
    • 836 Thanks
    aneary
    Do you have pictures when you moved in and when you moved out.

    The removal of property isn't going to look good for the LL if they are on the inventory.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 22nd Dec 17, 4:05 PM
    • 16,681 Posts
    • 41,268 Thanks
    FBaby
    the ineventory has photos of move-in state but I also have photos of my own and on move out day.
    To be fair, pictures on inventories are often not too good when it comes to cleaning, what matters is what was written. Did it say that it was in good state of cleanliness or does the inventory OR the ast states that it was professionally cleaned before you moved in?

    Have you checked the company that did the deep cleaning? Are they legit (and unlikely to be their cousin...), does the invoice detail anything, ie. what did they deep clean?

    As for the sofa, what damage are they talking about? A broken arm or a cigarette burn? How do you know the sofa is 15 years old? How long were you in the property.

    As for the removal of the possessions, unless it states in the ast/inventory that you agree to dispose of them at the end of your tenancy, then indeed, she's not going to get anything for it.
    • eeetee
    • By eeetee 22nd Dec 17, 6:05 PM
    • 122 Posts
    • 1,344 Thanks
    eeetee
    The inventory essentially says the flat to be in 'fair' state of cleanliness and it noted existing stains/ing to carpet i.e. Carpet was NOT in immaculate condition when I moved in. In fact I would (and will) argue that I left it in better condition as I steam cleaned it myself (although am aware LL could dispute this...) LL has provided as evidence invoice of cost of sofa purchased I think 2004, and has essentially put the entire cost as my responsibility. The leather cover to the cushion became worn which I put down to wear and tear. I certainly didn't intentionally damage it. Personally I would say 13+ years is decent life for a piece of furniture. The cleaning company used post exit seem professional, but I will investigate what service they provided. That is the only cost I would consider flexibility on. At a loss as to why LL considered her/ existing possessions my responsibility to remove they can be clearly seen in nventiry photos

    One other point I would add, is the check out report conducted by one of members of letting agent refers specifically only to the sofa, the LL has obviously checked subsequently and the photos she has used as evidence are dated 2 weeks after my tennency end. I am not sure where I stand on this. As far as I'm concerned I was not responsible after the 15th and so refer to the check out report conducted in that day?
    • paddypaws101
    • By paddypaws101 26th Dec 17, 6:03 PM
    • 2,059 Posts
    • 2,457 Thanks
    paddypaws101
    She's not going to get much joy from the adjudicators if she is claiming the entire cost for a 13 year old sofa! Unless your contract stipulated cleaning by a professional firm at end of contract then I don't think she will be able to claim all of that expense either.
    Give as much detail as you can to support your position....I don't think LL will get much of an award based on what you have said so far.
    • smdabs
    • By smdabs 27th Dec 17, 3:35 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    smdabs
    I had the same (if not worse) issue with my previous landlords/agency. I provided the pictures and explanations and I got the full deposit back. The deposit scheme is actually in place to protect tenants, NOT landlords as it so often happens that they think they are just entitled to a tenants deposit and seem to think of it as 'easy money'. They depend on the fact that many people would not actually dispute it, or at least not formally -maybe because they see it as a long and drawn out process and/or they think that the scheme is bias towards landlords.


    Given what you've said so far, I am almost sure you'll be getting most if not all your deposit back. Like you've said, cleaning can be a very subjective requirement at the end of the tenancy but if you have pictures that show it is of the same (or better) condition than when you went in - even the fee for cleaning should be waived!


    Good luck!
    • anselld
    • By anselld 27th Dec 17, 4:14 PM
    • 5,720 Posts
    • 5,384 Thanks
    anselld
    My argument will be that the sofa (15 years old) was wear and tear, and not intentionally damaged, but this will be difficult to argue? I mean, what is the average life of a sofa?
    Originally posted by eeetee
    Intention is not the issue, it is your responsibility even if the damage was accidental. However the L must allow for age and expected life so you will me able to defend most of the sofa deduction on these grounds alone.
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