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  • FIRST POST
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 19th Nov 17, 1:07 PM
    • 174Posts
    • 53Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    Small Claims - Refund on used car
    • #1
    • 19th Nov 17, 1:07 PM
    Small Claims - Refund on used car 19th Nov 17 at 1:07 PM
    I bought a used car in September from a dealer. It was sold with a 12 month warranty and as being subject to an 80 point pre-sale check and a service.

    Shortly after delivery I found problems with the blue-tooth module not working. Also the boot light and both parking lights were not working. On the fifth day the car overheated. They attempted to repair it.

    The car overheated again and a second repair was made.

    The car then overheated again. The RAC were called. They stated that the original repair was poor and diagnosed a head gasket leak.

    The car was returned to the garage, they stated that the fault was due to a faulty thermostat which they replaced. The car overheated again and the boot lock is now faulty.

    I visited the garage to request my money back hand delivering a complaint letter at the same time. They refused the refund and also refused to do any further repairs.

    As they failed to respond to my complaint letter in writing I sent a pre-court claim letter stating that I want a refund on the basis that:
    • The car was not fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality.
    • The repairs were not performed with reasonable skill and care.
    • The sale was subject to misrepresentation as they have not stood by the 12 month warranty and there is no evidence to show the car was subject to an 80 point check and service.
    I am now at the point of deciding if to pursue them through the small claims court. I now know the company is run by a convicted fraudster so whilst I feel I have a strong case I am wary that I may not get my money back.

    Following the issue of the claim I think it is very unlikely that they will admit the claim. Most likely they will ignore and I'll get judgement by default. The other alternative is they'll defend it and drag things out.

    So my questions are:

    1) It is not clear who I bought the car off. There is a limited company at the address but it is not clear if they are using it to trade through. My invoice just states XXXX Cars rather than XXXX Cars Ltd. Therefore should I issue the court claim against XXXX Cars? Should this limit wriggle room if he is actually trading as a sole trader.

    2)If they defend and drag it out how long could it be before the court hearing takes place?

    3)Once I have received judgement I plan to use a high court enforcement officer to recover the money and costs. My concern is how likely they are to wiggle off this, they do have assets with other vehicles for sale and it is a business address?
Page 1
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 19th Nov 17, 2:12 PM
    • 13,533 Posts
    • 8,596 Thanks
    arcon5
    • #2
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:12 PM
    • #2
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:12 PM
    How much are you talking and where's the car now?
    How long has the Ltd company been formed and has the director got a long history of diectorships?
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 19th Nov 17, 2:17 PM
    • 9,953 Posts
    • 11,228 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #3
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:17 PM
    • #3
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:17 PM
    Another point that is important is how did you pay for the car?
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 19th Nov 17, 2:31 PM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    • #4
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:31 PM
    • #4
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:31 PM
    4,500 for the car. I still have the car.


    The company was formed in June 16. The director has no prior history and appears to be acting as a shadow for the business manager who is disqualified from being a director. (think the director is the partner or wife of this disqualified individual.)


    I paid for the car by direct transfer to their bank account.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 19th Nov 17, 2:43 PM
    • 13,533 Posts
    • 8,596 Thanks
    arcon5
    • #5
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:43 PM
    • #5
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:43 PM
    How much are you talking and where's the car now?
    How long has the Ltd company been formed and has the director got a long history of diectorships?
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 19th Nov 17, 2:45 PM
    • 13,533 Posts
    • 8,596 Thanks
    arcon5
    • #6
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:45 PM
    • #6
    • 19th Nov 17, 2:45 PM
    Sorry for duplicate.

    On the face of it it could be worth pursuing

    Where's the car now and in what state
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 19th Nov 17, 3:05 PM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    • #7
    • 19th Nov 17, 3:05 PM
    • #7
    • 19th Nov 17, 3:05 PM
    The car is in my possession.



    It works but for how long I do not know. Rather than fix the leaking head gasket properly they used leak sealant which can be seen by the copper particles in the coolant and over the top of the coolant tank after it overheated. They deny using leak sealant but have also stated that they did not have the means to diagnose a head gasket leak themselves.


    Also I cannot get into the boot.
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 24th Nov 17, 7:23 PM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    • #8
    • 24th Nov 17, 7:23 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Nov 17, 7:23 PM
    I've decided to issue a claim against the dealer. Fingers crossed.
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 6th Dec 17, 7:31 PM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 7:31 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Dec 17, 7:31 PM
    The defendant has filed an "Acknowledgement of Service". The individual who has completed the document is not a director of the company and is also disqualified from being a director.

    Therefore, is the 'Acknowledgement of Service' invalid?
    And if it is invalid how do I raise this with the court service?
    • knightstyle
    • By knightstyle 6th Dec 17, 7:40 PM
    • 4,716 Posts
    • 1,751 Thanks
    knightstyle
    Can't help with the question but make sure they are still trading under the same name before you go to court and then before paying for bailiffs.
    Car dealers are well known for frequent changes to avoid paying court awarded compensation.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 6th Dec 17, 7:43 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
    • 9,615 Thanks
    unholyangel
    The defendant has filed an "Acknowledgement of Service". The individual who has completed the document is not a director of the company and is also disqualified from being a director.

    Therefore, is the 'Acknowledgement of Service' invalid?
    And if it is invalid how do I raise this with the court service?
    Originally posted by Silent Dancer
    If he is disqualified then he can't have anything at all to do with the running/managing of the company. They can still be an employee but need to be very careful about what duties they undertake/how they present themselves.

    That shouldn't affect your claim though.

    However if the disqualified director defends by himself in court/presents himself as a manager etc then I'd broach the subject at the hearing (if it gets that far).
    Last edited by unholyangel; 06-12-2017 at 7:46 PM.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 6th Dec 17, 8:11 PM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    Can't help with the question but make sure they are still trading under the same name before you go to court and then before paying for bailiffs.
    Car dealers are well known for frequent changes to avoid paying court awarded compensation.
    Originally posted by knightstyle
    This is my big concern that I will win the claim but I am unable to recover the judgement due to a slight of hand over legal entities.
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 29th Dec 17, 9:53 AM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    Went for judgement on Boxing Day as no defence had been filed. Judgement was rejected as last minute defence came in yesterday.

    Defence consists of them maintaining that the problems with the car are wear and tear and that the advertised 80 point check had taken place.

    At least they have admitted the car is subject to a 12 month warranty. I am unable to find any details of warranty. Am I able to write to them requesting they supply the terms and conditions? Can I ask for further information in support of the defence?
    • Computersaysno
    • By Computersaysno 29th Dec 17, 1:47 PM
    • 934 Posts
    • 727 Thanks
    Computersaysno
    You could do a SAR [Subject Access Request] under the ICO procedure.....but I wouldn't hold your breath for a suitable reply [although you could then complain to the ICO...but again I wouldn't hold your breath for the ICO action!!!!
    Welcome to the world of 'Protect the brand at the cost of free speech'
    • Computersaysno
    • By Computersaysno 29th Dec 17, 2:38 PM
    • 934 Posts
    • 727 Thanks
    Computersaysno
    Crack on and get your witness statement together and get them into court asap.


    You've got a great chance of winning.....now enforcement might be a different matter!!


    Never sue a 'man of straw' [ie no assets]......make sure they don't 'phoenix' the company and when you win make sure you pay the 60 to get it up to the High COurt for decent enforcement action.
    Welcome to the world of 'Protect the brand at the cost of free speech'
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 29th Dec 17, 4:50 PM
    • 4,284 Posts
    • 4,330 Thanks
    DoaM
    I paid for the car by direct transfer to their bank account.
    Originally posted by Silent Dancer
    Oh dear ... that should have been a huge warning flag. Unfortunately I think you've seen the last of your money, and the court action will ultimately be futile - the defendant will simply disappear once the claim is lost.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 29th Dec 17, 11:18 PM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    Crack on and get your witness statement together and get them into court asap.


    You've got a great chance of winning.....now enforcement might be a different matter!!


    Never sue a 'man of straw' [ie no assets]......make sure they don't 'phoenix' the company and when you win make sure you pay the 60 to get it up to the High COurt for decent enforcement action.
    Originally posted by Computersaysno
    Do you know how long it should take before we move on to the next stages? Is there any way of speeding things up?

    They are worth suing as there is no problem with assets as there are several cars on their lot to seize. I feel the risk is that they'll fold the company. If anyone now's any tips to stop this happening it would be appreciated.
    • Computersaysno
    • By Computersaysno 31st Dec 17, 12:27 PM
    • 934 Posts
    • 727 Thanks
    Computersaysno

    They are worth suing as there is no problem with assets as there are several cars on their lot to seize.
    Originally posted by Silent Dancer

    ONLY if the assets are in their name.....if they have them 'on behalf of customers' to sell or they bought them in a different name [and can prove it] then it might be harder.


    Luckily the starting point with HCEOs is that the items are presumed to be the garage's assets UNLESS the garage can prove otherwise.
    Welcome to the world of 'Protect the brand at the cost of free speech'
    • Silent Dancer
    • By Silent Dancer 2nd May 18, 7:11 PM
    • 174 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    Silent Dancer
    I now have a court date in mid June.

    One of the frustrations of the process is that the car dealer has dragged it out. He said he would he would take part in mediation but did not make himself available for an appointment and he has responded to court papers on the last possible day.

    We are shortly coming up to the point where I need to pay the court fee. I believe I have a strong case with an RAC report and letters from other customers stating how he has conned them. The only weekness I have is that I still have the car and it has been used by me to commute to work.

    The dealer has produced no evidence that he acted diligently and professionally. He has also refused to negotiate.
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