HELP NEEDED - URGENT - PARKING EYE APPEAL VIA POPLA DEADLINE - Pay or Not to Pay???

Umkomaas · 13 November 2017 at 5:36PM

mbronco3006 wrote: »

Yes I did that, it was still showing as being a £60 charge!

OK - just wait for the POPLA process to run its course. You will receive a copy of PE’s evidence pack - do check your junk mail to make sure it doesn’t go in there.

mbronco3006 · 13 November 2017 at 5:48PM

Will do. I am currently checking the POPLA website for the update, but as mentioned before, still showing as In Progress.
If the POPLA decision comes back in my favour. Do I need to do anything in relation to PE, or will it sort itself out?

Umkomaas · 13 November 2017 at 6:05PM

mbronco3006 wrote: »

If the POPLA decision comes back in my favour. Do I need to do anything in relation to PE, or will it sort itself out?

POPLA will tell them (and you) the result. If in your favour, all you do is get on with the rest of your life, which will include in future you reading carefully any private parking signs, they’re all different, but each has the potential to trap you.

You should also be passing the same message to your family and friends.

mbronco3006 · 15 November 2017 at 8:00PM

Well, I have finally had a response from POPLA, 1 day after the deadline for the reduced fee for the parking ticket. So now it has gone from £60 up to £100.

POPLA have not ruled in favour of myself or Parking Eye, but have instead said that I need to respond with comments.....This was their email.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dear Stuart, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Your parking charge appeal against Parking Eye Ltd.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Parking Eye Ltd has now uploaded its evidence via our portal. This is now available for you to view by clicking here.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You have seven days from the date of this correspondence to provide comments on the evidence uploaded by Parking Eye Ltd.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please note that these comments must relate to the grounds of appeal you submitted when first lodging your appeal with POPLA, we do not accept new grounds of appeal at this stage.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Any comments received after the period of seven days has ended will not be considered and we will progress your appeal for assessment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you have any issues with the evidence uploaded by Parking Eye Ltd such as being unable to view it online, please contact POPLA immediately so that we can look to rectify this as soon as possible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yours Sincerely,
POPLA Team[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now looking on the "evidence" they have attached a 52 page document with photos of all the signage, locations, my emails, their letters.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A photo of the signage doesn't say anything about Grace periods. But the car park says UP TO 2 HOURS, I put on 2 hours. but then took a total of 2hours, 11mins from driving in and out. Does that mean that a Grace period doesn't apply?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I'm not sure what other information I need to supply, when I supplied everything I had to POPLA?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Can anyone help further?
[/FONT]

mbronco3006 · 15 November 2017 at 8:02PM

POPLA details, after the 52 page attachment state that
Please provide your comments on the operator evidence.

You have 7 days from the operator evidence submission date - 15/11/2017. You will not have opportunity to edit or add further detail once you have submitted your comments.

But I have no clue what else to write!!!??

Umkomaas · 15 November 2017 at 8:11PM

This is a standard part of the process. It’s all explained in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3.

Also a standard response by PE by using a multi-page template with all sorts of ‘throw enough mud at the wall and hope some of it sticks’ rubbish.

So you need to go through it and rebut anything that you disagree with, or that is plain wrong. Where they have failed to deal with any of your POPLA appeal points, you drive that home to POPLA that by PE not addressing that point, they therefore accept it (landowner contract, where PE instead just attach some witness statement - go to town on that).

You can’t add any new evidence. You need to make your response surgical, not rambling off on long diatribes, or drifting into rants. You are restricted to 2,000 characters if using the portal reply window, but if you need more than that you can type in Word format, then convert to a .pdf file and attach to an email (with all your PCN and POPLA references) - but it’s not a licence to ‘go off on one’.

You must meet that 7-day deadline.

mbronco3006 · 15 November 2017 at 8:22PM

With reference to the Landowner reference, what do I need to say about it? As they have written these details, including all of the "evidence"

Case Detail
Site Tower Road, Newquay, TR7 1LX
Type ANPR monitored and enforced
Name Mr STUART *******
Vehicle Registration *******
Vehicle Make *******
Vehicle Model ******
Vehicle Colour *******
Date/Time In 24/09/2017 12:01:58
Date/Time Out 24/09/2017 14:13:31
Time Allowed 0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds
Time In Car Park 2 hours 11 minutes 33 seconds
Time Paid For 2 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds
Payment Options Payment Machines & PayByPhone
Number of Paid Parking Machines 5

History
24/09/2017 Date of event
System check/manual check identified breach of terms and conditions, prior to DVLA request
04/10/2017 Request queued to DVLA for keeper details
05/10/2017 DVLA response received - Success
05/10/2017 Parking Charge Letter Issued - Letter1 - Ltr01-217
14/10/2017 Parking Charge Letter Issued - Letter2 - Ltr02-217
18/10/2017 Letter Issued - Website Appeal Response
01/11/2017 Website appeal processed, please see section E
Check undertaken to locate vehicle registration on paid parking system (Evidence G)
01/11/2017 Letter Issued - Unsuccessful POPLA PP Insufficient (w/Discount to pay)

Rules and Conditions
This site is a Paid Parking car park as clearly stated on the signage (enclosed). We have included a signage plan showing that there are signs situated at the entrance, exit and throughout the car park displaying the terms and conditions of the site.

The facility to pay by phone is also available at this site on the provision of the full, correct vehicle registration and payment card details.

Evidence G
System generated print out showing that insufficient time was purchased on the date of the event.

Authority
ParkingEye can confirm that the above site is on private land, is not council owned and that we have written authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices at this site from the landowner (or landowner’s agent).

It must also be noted that any person who makes a contract in his own name without disclosing the existence of a principal, or who, though disclosing the fact that he is acting as an agent on behalf of a principal, renders himself personally liable on the contract, is entitled to enforce it against the other contracting party. (Fairlie v Fenton (1870) LR 5 Exch 169). It follows that a lawful contract between ParkingEye and the motorist will be enforceable by ParkingEye as a party to that contract.

Further Information
Grace period
ParkingEye operates a grace period on all sites which gives the motorist time to enter a car park, park, and establish whether or not they wish to be bound by the terms and conditions of parking.
There is a sufficient grace period in place at this site which is fully compliant with the BPA code of practice. All grace periods in place are a minimum of 10 minutes or more in line with the BPA Code of Practice.

The signage on site clearly sets out the terms and conditions and states that;
"By parking, waiting or otherwise remaining within this private car park, you agree to comply with these terms and conditions and are authorised to park, only if you follow these terms and conditions"

"If you fail to comply, you accept liability to pay the fee for unauthorised parking"

All signs that pertain to the general terms and conditions of parking contain text which explains that, “[…] by entering this private car park, you [each motorist] consent, for the purpose of car park management, to: the capturing of photographs of the vehicle and registration by the ANPR cameras […] and to the processing of this data […]”. In turn, consent is also provided so as to allow ParkingEye to make a request for registered keeper from the DVLA “where the Parking Contract is not adhered to”. The wording used clearly details that the Parking Contract in question commences when the motorist “enters” the car park and that the data from the ANPR system will be used to enable ParkingEye to take enforcement action against those who breach the parking terms and conditions in operation.

ParkingEye operates a grace period on all sites, which gives the motorist time to enter a car park, park, and establish whether or not they wish to be bound by the terms and conditions of parking. These grace periods are sufficient for this purpose and are fully compliant with the BPA code of practice.

Please be advised, this Parking Charge was not issued under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

Umkomaas · 15 November 2017 at 8:44PM

Although PE are not pursuing using PoFA you seem to have identified the driver, so you can’t argue no Keeper liability.

You really need to go to town on the Grace Periods issue. There is a front end GP to enter, circle, look for a parking space, read the signs, go to the ticket machine and put in your money. That’s going to take an absolute minimum of 5 minutes, but on a busy summer day in the middle of the holiday season, probably quite a bit more.

Then the BPA Code of Practice (Clause 13) also requires them to provide you (as of right) an absolute minimum of 10 minutes for your vehicle to leave the car park. So between the two, there’s 15 minutes for you (minimum). You therefore point out to POPLA that you were well within the minimum GPs provided by the BPA Code of Practice - and why on earth are PE pursuing this in breach of their ATA’s CoP? Also ask POPLA to report this breach to the BPA.

PE are likely to drop it like a hot brick when they see this. It’s just a try-on, probably encouraged by your rather weak POPLA appeal.

KeithP · 15 November 2017 at 8:45PM

Well, go to town on Grace periods.

You mentioned these in your original appeal and PE replied:

ParkingEye operates a grace period on all sites which gives the motorist time to enter a car park, park, and establish whether or not they wish to be bound by the terms and conditions of parking.
There is a sufficient grace period in place at this site which is fully compliant with the BPA code of practice. All grace periods in place are a minimum of 10 minutes or more in line with the BPA Code of Practice.

They talk about more than one grace period and say that all grace periods are "a minimum of 10 minutes or more".
learly your alleged eleven minute overstay fits here.
Explain that several minutes were taken before parking to read the terms - as PE themselves state needs to be done.
Explain about the congestion on exit both in the car park and on the road outside causing queues throughout the car park.

Go through their evidence with a fine tooth comb and challenge everything that isn't true.

For example, on a thread only yesterday the PPC supplied details of a tariff for a car park 120 miles away.

Check all their evidence.

Umkomaas · 15 November 2017 at 8:48PM

@KeithP - formation [STRIKE]dancing[/STRIKE] advising!

HELP NEEDED - URGENT - PARKING EYE APPEAL VIA POPLA DEADLINE - Pay or Not to Pay???

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