TV Licence - will they get a warrant?
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Forum member..Good night , time for bed. I have work to do tomorrow, doors to knock on TV licence reminders to hand to people who do not have a TV licence and possibly are not aware that they need one .Such as yourself Nick-C. You cannot watch BBC iplayer at all if you do not have a licence. You cannot watch any BBC content at all except what they sell to Netflix etc
At the moment you can get round BBC iplayer and not have to register you possess a licence, but I expect the BBC will stop that very soon0 -
House_Martin wrote: »... TV licence reminders to hand to people who do not have a TV licence and possibly are not aware that they need one .Such as yourself Nick-C.
So you are now accusing me of breaking the law. And you wonder why people don't want the likes of you in our homes!
Get some sleep. You need it. Try to go to work with a clear head and an open mind.0 -
... not everyone who turns down a smart meter is stealing electricity.
Indeed. But this thread has also identified another compelling reason for getting a smart meter. I had no idea that meter readers were also spying on people to see what they are watching on TV!
I'm definitely writing to the ICO about this, but we should try to get a journalist to pick up this story.0 -
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Indeed. But this thread has also identified another compelling reason for getting a smart meter. I had no idea that meter readers were also spying on people to see what they are watching on TV!
I'm definitely writing to the ICO about this, but we should try to get a journalist to pick up this story.
Really? I think it's you that needs your sleep.0 -
No he's not, he's saying you don't know you need a licence to watch iplayer.House_Martin wrote: »... I have work to do tomorrow, doors to knock on TV licence reminders to hand to people who do not have a TV licence and possibly are not aware that they need one .Such as yourself Nick-C. You cannot watch BBC iplayer at all if you do not have a licence. You cannot watch any BBC content at all except what they sell to Netflix...0
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No wonder HM took offence about Crapita Goons & the like......
He is a part time £20 "TVL Doorknocker" himself, or more likely a PR employee of the same outfit.
The sooner the utterly Biased BBC is shut down, or goes to a proper subscription model the better - as the current TV Licence model is outdated & unsustainable.
So, the new lesson for the LLF person, who happens sadly to have a meter in a cupboard under the stairs (or similar) is to ensure the TV used for watching DVDs or other legal activities, is turned off when the meter reader calls. Any questions about TV by a nosy "Meter reader", should be answered by "Do the job you are here to do, then go away" (or words to that effect).
But thanks for enlightening the LLF about the low tactics used by Capita/BBC employees stoop to, in 2017 - all noted in a conformation in cross-examination.0 -
I struggle to see how a LLF household has anything to fear from allowing a Meter Reader on to their premises. It really would be very silly of BBC-TVL to treat any info gained about the presence of a TV or TV viewing as anything more than hearsay collected by someone entirely unqualified for the task. Perhaps it could raise the priority of a Capita "visit", but that's about it.
I also note that we've yet to see (in 3 or 4 outings by House Martin on these forums) a clear, consistent description of exactly what he is tasked with doing.
None of which excuses BBC/TVL/Capita/MDS from the rigours of the Data Protection Act and the Human Rights Act. It's disappointing how those who ought to know better seldom do.
My letter to the BBC will include something along these lines:-
I am aware from a flurry of activity on social media that one or more G4S (now MDS) staff are making claims about their participation in TV Licence enforcement activity. I am aware of the potential for these claims to be spurious, however since they introduce new and important questions of compliance I have decided to raise them with you.
I had previously understood that G4S/MDS were involved in hand-delivering TVL calling cards to unlicensed addresses. Whilst I do not see a legitimate purpose for this activity, it probably remains relatively innocuous in legal terms as long as MDS staff do not engage with the Public on behalf of TVL.
The claims that I have seen involve the leakage of TVL data between tasks and clients such that a Meter Reader, entering someone's home to read their meter(s) will have knowledge of that household's TV Licence status. That would appear to me to be a clear breach of data protection rules. There is a further claim that having observed an apparently illicit TV or TV viewing, the Meter Reader is able to transmit this information to TVL through his/her handheld computer. This would seem to be a breach of Article 8 of the Human Rights Act.
Please could you comment on the above, even if only to deny these claims.0 -
Cornucopia wrote: »I struggle to see how a LLF household has anything to fear from allowing a Meter Reader on to their premises. It really would be very silly of BBC-TVL to treat any info gained about the presence of a TV or TV viewing as anything more than hearsay collected by someone entirely unqualified for the task. Perhaps it could raise the priority of a Capita "visit", but that's about it.
I also note that we've yet to see (in 3 or 4 outings by House Martin on these forums) a clear, consistent description of exactly what he is tasked with doing.
None of which excuses BBC/TVL/Capita/MDS from the rigours of the Data Protection Act and the Human Rights Act. It's disappointing how those who ought to know better seldom do.
My letter to the BBC will include something along these lines:-
I am aware from a flurry of activity on social media that one or more G4S (now MDS) staff are making claims about their participation in TV Licence enforcement activity. I am aware of the potential for these claims to be spurious, however since they introduce new and important questions of compliance I have decided to raise them with you.
I had previously understood that G4S/MDS were involved in hand-delivering TVL calling cards to unlicensed addresses. Whilst I do not see a legitimate purpose for this activity, it probably remains relatively innocuous in legal terms as long as MDS staff do not engage with the Public on behalf of TVL.
The claims that I have seen involve the leakage of TVL data between tasks and clients such that a Meter Reader, entering someone's home to read their meter(s) will have knowledge of that household's TV Licence status. That would appear to me to be a clear breach of data protection rules. There is a further claim that having observed an apparently illicit TV or TV viewing, the Meter Reader is able to transmit this information to TVL through his/her handheld computer. This would seem to be a breach of Article 8 of the Human Rights Act.
Please could you comment on the above, even if only to deny these claims.
I am merely doing my job to the best of my ability. Very sorry that I observe how many of the unlicenced general public so easily defeat the BBC s Capita employees by merely taking advice available on TV advice websites.
Dont you think that the BBC have their "human rights " too by not offering a free service to any Tom !!!! or Harry
Dont forget we also go "undercover " ( no uniform or handheld data computer carried ) in order to "spy " as some posters like to call it , on such organisations as BT Sports, Sky TV and various places which should have a music licence.
To clarify what data we may or not transmit , we do have an available check list of around 7 different outcomes of our visit which we must check one of them.It is time dated.We also have a "notes " section where we can leave "additional comments ".
This is the important area. It is there I presume to alert TVL to a possible violent or abusive person at the property.
I would say that 98% of the time all meter readers select either "hand delivered " or " posted "
Recently we were instructed to "hand deliver " if possible but mostly meter readers ignore that because they do not want any confrontation.
One time I was violently thrown out of a house and was lucky to get away without injury from one person who did nt possess a licence who was happily watching live BBC The Open Golf (it was a few years ago )
This was brought about because I made a mistake in thinking I had to read his gas meter , went into the property to the rear garden but realised it was nt a gas meter read but a TV licence delivery. He then manhandled me violently and kicked me out of the back gate so I would not return past his 46 inch telly again.
I was contemplating making it a police report but in the end I put it down to experience and made sure to open up the details of why I was knocking at any door in future .
I do know his name and address tho having made a personal note for future NOT to knock on his door again
I did note this on my handheld that this violent individual was viewing live BBC at the time of my visit.This is not something I normally do I might add.
Good luck in your complaint. I will only respond to any enquiries which may come about this if I can deal with a real person, not a virtual "hidden " undercover person.
If you like Cornucopia I will post you my evidence ! In fact I will drop in at your gaffe for a little face to face chat next time I m down the Medway area, or you are welcome to drop in at my place up North for a cuppa any time you like.0 -
House_Martin wrote: »That is basically correct Cornucopia..Well done for bringing in the "Human Rights " rubbish into our little debate.You are very melodramatic. Human Rights indeed lolI am merely doing my job to the best of my ability.Very sorry that I observe how many of the unlicenced general public so easily defeat the BBC s Capita employees by merely taking advice available on TV advice websites.Dont you think that the BBC have their "human rights " too...
The key issue (IMHO) is that the BBC lacks any legislation that permits/requires it to do what it does in regards to Licence enforcement. This is a breach of a specific phrase in Article 8, which permits interference in people's homes and private lives only when it is "in accordance with the law".Dont forget we also go "undercover " ( no uniform or handheld data computer carried ) in order to "spy " as some posters like to call it , on such organisations as BT Sports, Sky TV and various places which should have a music licence.To clarify what data we may or not transmit , we do have an available check list of around 7 different outcomes of our visit which we must check one of them.It is time dated.We also have a "notes " section where we can leave "additional comments ".
This is the important area. It is there I presume to alert TVL to a possible violent or abusive person at the property.
I would say that 98% of the time all meter readers select either "hand delivered " or " posted "
Recently we were instructed to "hand deliver " if possible but mostly meter readers ignore that because they do not want any confrontation.
So... do you or don't you flag TVs and/or TV viewing on your computer?One time I was violently thrown out of a house...
Whilst I don't condone violence, I do think that this is the risk you run when you undermine people's lawful rights. I appreciate that you have been instructed to do this, and that to an extent you are required to take such instructions in good faith, but that is the dilemma you face. At least now you are aware of the issues.
From a legal POV, a householder is entitled to use reasonable force to eject trespassers from their property (under English & Welsh law). So... if you were not there under a legitimate purpose associated with the Utilities Act, you were on their property without good reason, you were trespassing and it was (sadly) legitimate to remove you using reasonable force. In a way, it's a pity that you did not make a complaint to the Police, as it would have been interesting and instructive to see how they would have handled it.
This is the downside of Managers with a vested financial interest making up the rules apparently without cogniscance of the relevant law.0
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