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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    • 97Posts
    • 31Thanks
    MSE Karl
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    Smart Meters 31st Oct 17 at 5:13 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 09-11-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 28
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 9th Jun 18, 6:55 PM
    • 4,314 Posts
    • 6,099 Thanks
    Nick_C
    People are being naive about 'smart meters'. Bizarrely they get hot under collar about data privacy and intrusion but then happily install a 'snooper meter' into their house. This technology will allow big business and ultimately the govt agencies to know when you're home, what you're using, your profile and how much you're using. .
    Originally posted by doberryfirkin
    You are absolutely right of course. Big Brother is watching us.

    I refuse to use the internet for these same reasons.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 9th Jun 18, 7:03 PM
    • 6,342 Posts
    • 4,070 Thanks
    Hengus
    Are you saying that the article is telling a deliberate lie? It's a pity that there isn't a contact email for the author of the article - Mike Pattenden "Technology Journalist".
    Originally posted by JohnB47
    That!!!8217;s for you to judge:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/706853/Consultation_on_enrolment_of_SMETS1_cohorts_with_t he_DCC.pdf

    Have a read of paragraph 9. This is all about SMETS1 meter adoption. The SMETS2 document runs to over 800 pages of technical requirements.

    You may need to copy and paste the link as it is proving problematical. Another telling paragraph from the document:

    fourteen energy suppliers put forward around 12.6 million SMETS1 meters for enrolment, to reflect their plans for SMETS1 installations in the period prior to the SMETS1 end-date.14 However, the voluntary nature of SMETS1 enrolment presents a risk that the DCC solution is not used in a timely manner (or at all), which would delay the point at which consumers receive an interoperable SMETS1 service and result in potentially nugatory costs being incurred, as suppliers do not have to operate gained SMETS1 meters15 which are not enrolled in the DCC as smart until 2021 at domestic premises.
    Last edited by Hengus; 09-06-2018 at 7:17 PM. Reason: Format error
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 9th Jun 18, 7:37 PM
    • 7,681 Posts
    • 6,239 Thanks
    daveyjp
    Are you saying that the article is telling a deliberate lie? It's a pity that there isn't a contact email for the author of the article - Mike Pattenden "Technology Journalist".
    Originally posted by JohnB47
    I saw this two pages of wasted trees and as soon as I saw it was an advertorial ignored it.

    Bending the truth is what advertising is all about. To me it was a sign of desperation.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 10th Jun 18, 5:59 PM
    • 3,137 Posts
    • 1,372 Thanks
    Xbigman
    I saw this two pages of wasted trees and as soon as I saw it was an advertorial ignored it.

    Bending the truth is what advertising is all about. To me it was a sign of desperation.
    Originally posted by daveyjp
    It could be a sign we have too many tree's?





    Darren (in a mischievous mood)
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • Sosumi
    • By Sosumi 11th Jun 18, 5:19 PM
    • 193 Posts
    • 183 Thanks
    Sosumi

    It could be a sign we have too many tree's?
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    Which is better than having too many apostrophes.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 12th Jun 18, 1:18 AM
    • 3,137 Posts
    • 1,372 Thanks
    Xbigman
    My speeling checker was fine with that many!!!


    Darren!!!
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 12th Jun 18, 7:43 AM
    • 3,787 Posts
    • 2,388 Thanks
    matelodave
    You are absolutely right of course. Big Brother is watching us.

    I refuse to use the internet for these same reasons.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    You are on this forum so already being tracked. Do you have a mobile phone? if so you are being tracked.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 18th Jun 18, 4:57 PM
    • 166 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Michaelw
    There has been reports of batteries failing again.Here the engineer had to fit a standard meter that later had to be replaced with a smart meter.

    After talking to OVO they thought it was almost certainly a battery failure and sent out an engineer for a fix.

    Turns out he had to install a traditional meter because it was out of hours for OVO to give codes for a new smart one.

    This means that we have to yet another visit to have a new smart meter installed

    https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-meter-booking-and-installations-66/smart-gas-meter-battery-failure-why-isn-t-it-easy-to-replace-it-1418
    • Fluffy2
    • By Fluffy2 20th Jun 18, 12:38 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Fluffy2
    Smart meters are not safe
    Hi all,
    I would implore you not to get a smart meter. The hype and advertising around them is to get rid off an ineffective product with all sorts far featched claims of how it will save you money. Instead of installing one, you can work out what each appliance is costing you by a mathematical equation based on its watts etc.

    Smart meters use EMF waves which are on the same level as normal brain waves. Therefore they can interfere with sleep and mental wellbeing. The effects can be subtle or some people can experience more distressing symptoms. They can cause insomnia anxiety, low mood and irritability. It can also cause you to feel extremely unwell. They have been shown to interfere with implanted electrical devices such as cochlear implants and deep brain stimulation, such as being developed to treat parkinsons disease. Those especially at risk are those with autoimmune disease e.g. M.E. fibromyalgia, cancers, some arthritis, chrohn's disease etc. Please do a search on EMF and smart meters and harmful effects.

    The more people that have them the greater density of the EMF smog created. This is invisible, it means that between every millisecond and up to every 2 seconds 24 hrs a day these waves pass through your body and have an effect on your nervous system and brain waves.

    I know that some people also object to their privacy invasion. This is because, potentially, any organisation that has access to the data transmitted can tell on aggregated interpretation how many people are in the property, what times the property is empty etc, building up an accurate pattern of routine and movement. Whilst this is genuinely concerning I am more focused on the health risks.
    • silverspell
    • By silverspell 30th Jul 18, 9:02 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    silverspell
    mr
    They are a rip off avoid use these tips below


    1. Refuse a smart meter on the grounds its unsafe and you are concerned about your personal data being hacked
    !!!8203;
    2, Make it known that you have great reservations about the squandering of 11 billion pounds on a device that will be obsolete in 5 years time.
    !!!8203;
    3. Let your MP know that local front line services that are currently being decimated by government cuts need to be a priority over and above a new type of meter .

    4. Don't be a willing participant in your own misfortune . These meters interfere with home broadband router signals, your details are collected and in the future that database will be sold on to marketing / junk mail firms . Your energy supplier will have at his fingertips a wealth of knowledge about your appliance usage, loads , payment details , debt , and all this is transmitted to them over the airwaves.
    !!!8203;
    5 Keep safe and dont install have one of! these spy ware enabled devices
    !!!8203;
    6. Five thousand meter readers , many!semi retired people earning a living will all lose their jobs.
    !!!8203;
    7. You take issue with being intimidated by letters and door knockers out to convince you to have a spy meter fitted and warnings that if you switch supplier your meter wont work.

    They are a rip off avoid use these tips below and please support the cause and sign our petition at
    and ....consider supporting our funding effort to mount a counter campaign to the brainwashing ongoing media blitz for smart meters
    • jcontest
    • By jcontest 30th Jul 18, 11:12 PM
    • 92 Posts
    • 551 Thanks
    jcontest
    They are a rip off avoid use these tips below


    1. Refuse a smart meter on the grounds its unsafe and you are concerned about your personal data being hacked
    !!!8203;
    2, Make it known that you have great reservations about the squandering of 11 billion pounds on a device that will be obsolete in 5 years time.
    !!!8203;
    3. Let your MP know that local front line services that are currently being decimated by government cuts need to be a priority over and above a new type of meter .

    4. Don't be a willing participant in your own misfortune . These meters interfere with home broadband router signals, your details are collected and in the future that database will be sold on to marketing / junk mail firms . Your energy supplier will have at his fingertips a wealth of knowledge about your appliance usage, loads , payment details , debt , and all this is transmitted to them over the airwaves.
    !!!8203;
    5 Keep safe and dont install have one of! these spy ware enabled devices
    !!!8203;
    6. Five thousand meter readers , many!semi retired people earning a living will all lose their jobs.
    !!!8203;
    7. You take issue with being intimidated by letters and door knockers out to convince you to have a spy meter fitted and warnings that if you switch supplier your meter wont work.

    They are a rip off avoid use these tips below and please support the cause and sign our petition at
    and ....consider supporting our funding effort to mount a counter campaign to the brainwashing ongoing media blitz for smart meters
    Originally posted by silverspell

    1) Your personal data is not held by the meter, Nor should the DCC have it, Capita has so many contracts with private and public sectors that I can assure you they know everything as it is.
    2) While squandering 11 billion pounds is bad, the actual cost is looking to be closer to 20 billion pounds. Your energy supplier really isnt going to care about this because if they dont install them (or at least, try to) then the penalty for them failing can be high enough to bankrupt them. Your basically try to tell a private company to go bust so they can save the public money.
    3) I agree you should complain to your MP about this, but all wasted money will be paid for by consumers, so it shouldn't impact your public services (don't argue it on that point).
    4) The 2.4ghz spectrum is shared by more than WiFi and ZigBee. It shouldn't have an impact that is noticeable, that said, only time will tell after deployment IF it does really cause a lot of issues.
    5) It's not Spyware, You know it is there thus its not spying. You could make an argument that you only want it to export values for a read of a day/week/month/quarter and not constant usage. It could possibly be used to say when someone is at home or not at home and I agree that is a bad thing.
    6) Estimated bills and online reading submissions was doing away with these people having a role to play anyhow. You could counter-argue that the 2 billion cost of installation will provide high-tech installers jobs opportunity that wouldn't be there otherwise. So do you feel bad for the young tech-trained installer, or the old retired person?
    7) I have never had anyone knock on my door, I have been asked once and said "No" and that was the end of that.


    Here is the thing.
    If you don't want it then when your supplier ask, tell them "No", If they ask again, then move suppliers citing that as a reason.


    http://www.nickhunn.com/british-smart-meters-cost-28-million-each/ is interesting reading.
    I will not be giving any group money to fight smart meters. Overall they are a good direction we should be moving towards, sadly the UK Gov decided it would be more about brown-envelope negotiations and consumers who wouldn't benefit.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 31st Jul 18, 5:09 PM
    • 4,349 Posts
    • 5,792 Thanks
    zeupater
    ... Overall they are a good direction we should be moving towards, sadly the UK Gov decided it would be more about brown-envelope negotiations and consumers who wouldn't benefit.
    Originally posted by jcontest
    Hi

    The main issue is that the government got too deeply involved & our Civil Service pushed them there ... they should simply facilitated the establishment of the DCC, ensured that suitable standards were in place & left the industry to get on with replacing meters with smart-meters according to their own rolling plan (with some additional targetting to assist the highest users!), that way there'd be no significant additional cost apart from the DCC element which the industry could offset & amortise against reduced administration ...

    It's not rocket science & it doesn't take rocket scientists, but it absolutely exposes the failings of the Civil Service in misguiding government strategy & running yet another project into the ground through inept project control and not understanding something so basic .... heads should roll, but they won't, they'll be promoted because they've ticked another box on their career 'learning curve' ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 10th Aug 18, 9:01 AM
    • 7,681 Posts
    • 6,239 Thanks
    daveyjp
    BBC Breakfast covering it this morning. Lots of complaints about the system not being fit for purpose, especially on switching.

    They policy director for this mess was on and I'm afraid he came across as someone who agreed with what was being said, but as his mortgage depended on him disagreeing he had to be rather economical with the truth.

    Asked a question: should there be a three year delay of roll out deadline? Responded with a pre prepared statement about how wonderful this system was and how many millions of pounds it will save us and how life changing it had been for so many people (!).

    He stated the problem with loss of communication on switching provider only applies to 7% of users. That figure means nothing, but as usual with BBC the figure wasn't challenged.

    Nice try, but you failed in convincing me.
    Last edited by daveyjp; 10-08-2018 at 9:05 AM.
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 10th Aug 18, 1:27 PM
    • 7,731 Posts
    • 4,383 Thanks
    buglawton
    Hi

    The main issue is that the government got too deeply involved & our Civil Service pushed them there ... they should simply facilitated the establishment of the DCC, ensured that suitable standards were in place & left the industry to get on with replacing meters with smart-meters according to their own rolling plan (with some additional targetting to assist the highest users!), that way there'd be no significant additional cost apart from the DCC element which the industry could offset & amortise against reduced administration ...

    It's not rocket science & it doesn't take rocket scientists, but it absolutely exposes the failings of the Civil Service in misguiding government strategy & running yet another project into the ground through inept project control and not understanding something so basic .... heads should roll, but they won't, they'll be promoted because they've ticked another box on their career 'learning curve' ...

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    The Telegraph had an article comparing the reasonably successful regional Italian rollout. Big difference was that it was the grid provider that did the project. Here in the UK against best advice the individual suppliers were handed it. The article concluded that this was just one of an endless series of UK infrastructure blunders and put the root cause as being ideological first-past-the-post elected British governments that refuse to listen to their own select committees.

    And just to add: There was a book written to catalogue these blunders and already by 2010 the estimated waste, paid for by the taxpayer, was around 100Bn.

    The Blunders of our Governments
    (why the British political system is so prone to appalling mistakes)
    http://amzn.eu/6aaLp7F
    Last edited by buglawton; 10-08-2018 at 1:40 PM.
    • cmotd
    • By cmotd 18th Aug 18, 2:39 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    cmotd
    Eon is getting desperate. Had an email from them saying 'they needed to change my meter' to a smart one and to ring them if I didn't want one. Ignored it so they phoned me two days later and tried to 'encourage' me to have one. I told them I would have one when the smets2 version was available and that they could prove that led lights wouldn't give false readings up to six times too high (see Daily Telegraph article from last March).
    Today I had another email about my fixed tariff which ends soon and offering their best tariff which - Surprise! Surprise! - is only available if you agree to have a smart meter. Compulsion by the back door? Is this legal?
    Last edited by cmotd; 18-08-2018 at 2:42 PM.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 18th Aug 18, 2:55 PM
    • 4,423 Posts
    • 5,812 Thanks
    waamo
    Eon is getting desperate. Had an email from them saying 'they needed to change my meter' to a smart one and to ring them if I didn't want one. Ignored it so they phoned me two days later and tried to 'encourage' me to have one. I told them I would have one when the smets2 version was available and that they could prove that led lights wouldn't give false readings up to six times too high (see Daily Telegraph article from last March).
    Today I had another email about my fixed tariff which ends soon and offering their best tariff which - Surprise! Surprise! - is only available if you agree to have a smart meter. Compulsion by the back door? Is this legal?
    Originally posted by cmotd
    Shop around for a cheaper deal. Odds are you can get one.
    This space for hire.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 18th Aug 18, 3:12 PM
    • 4,314 Posts
    • 6,099 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Is this legal?
    Originally posted by cmotd
    Yes.......
    • Houbara
    • By Houbara 18th Aug 18, 4:33 PM
    • 3,925 Posts
    • 2,550 Thanks
    Houbara
    Hi all,
    I would implore you not to get a smart meter. The hype and advertising around them is to get rid off an ineffective product with all sorts far featched claims of how it will save you money. Instead of installing one, you can work out what each appliance is costing you by a mathematical equation based on its watts etc.

    Smart meters use EMF waves which are on the same level as normal brain waves. Therefore they can interfere with sleep and mental wellbeing. The effects can be subtle or some people can experience more distressing symptoms. They can cause insomnia anxiety, low mood and irritability. It can also cause you to feel extremely unwell. They have been shown to interfere with implanted electrical devices such as cochlear implants and deep brain stimulation, such as being developed to treat parkinsons disease. Those especially at risk are those with autoimmune disease e.g. M.E. fibromyalgia, cancers, some arthritis, chrohn's disease etc. Please do a search on EMF and smart meters and harmful effects.

    The more people that have them the greater density of the EMF smog created. This is invisible, it means that between every millisecond and up to every 2 seconds 24 hrs a day these waves pass through your body and have an effect on your nervous system and brain waves.

    I know that some people also object to their privacy invasion. This is because, potentially, any organisation that has access to the data transmitted can tell on aggregated interpretation how many people are in the property, what times the property is empty etc, building up an accurate pattern of routine and movement. Whilst this is genuinely concerning I am more focused on the health risks.
    Originally posted by Fluffy2
    You lost me when you started going on about ridiculous EMF waves upsetting the brain. Have you been watching "Better Call Saul " ? ( the prequel to Breaking Bad ) whos brother the top lawyer Chuck. elder bro of Jimmy Mcgill, was so bonkers he thought electricity was killing him. Great Netflix prog though
    Its a ludicrous claim.. I thought we d heard the last of the electromagnetic sensitivity nonsense on here when it started a few years ago.
    That was one of the main claims of Stop Smart Meters..co uk
    Last edited by Houbara; 18-08-2018 at 8:39 PM.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 18th Aug 18, 5:24 PM
    • 19,430 Posts
    • 13,628 Thanks
    molerat
    you lost me when you started going on about ridiculous EMF waves upsetting the brain. Have you been watching "Better Call Saul " whos brother Chuck was so bonkers he thought electricity was killing him. Great Netflix prog though
    Ludicrous.. I thought we d heard the last of the electromagnetic sensitivity nonsense on here.
    That was one of the main claims of Stop Smart Meters..co uk
    Originally posted by Houbara
    I won't have one because it might fry my brain, now to contact my supplier to tell them - should I call them on my mobile or send an e-mail over my wi-fi
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 18th Aug 18, 6:12 PM
    • 3,787 Posts
    • 2,388 Thanks
    matelodave
    I won't have one because it might fry my brain, now to contact my supplier to tell them - should I call them on my mobile or send an e-mail over my wi-fi
    Originally posted by molerat
    You could send them a text, which might save your brain a bit but please don't put your mobile into your pockets - you just don't know what havoc is being created down there.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
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