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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    • 68Posts
    • 20Thanks
    MSE Karl
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    Smart Meters 31st Oct 17 at 5:13 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven!!!8217;t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 09-11-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 22
    • MeterMan
    • By MeterMan 26th Apr 18, 7:58 PM
    • 302 Posts
    • 170 Thanks
    MeterMan

    Applying a large DC voltage might fry it but I am not recommending that of course!!
    Originally posted by RandomQ
    What a ridiculous thing to suggest, what if someone applies some voltage to a smart gas meter. You should think before you type.
    • RandomQ
    • By RandomQ 26th Apr 18, 9:09 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    RandomQ
    What a ridiculous thing to suggest, what if someone applies some voltage to a smart gas meter. You should think before you type.

    Applying a large DC voltage might fry it but I am not recommending that of course!!
    Originally posted by RandomQ
    Originally posted by MeterMan
    Really! What If!

    Honestly, firstly I made it clear that I was not recommending that and I put exclamation marks, it is a bit bleeding obvious that I was not serious, but in case it makes you sleep better

    WARNING: "frying" a gas meter, or applying any large voltage is not only silly but might result in an explosion or other unintended result. Please do not do it!!
    • Delboytoo
    • By Delboytoo 30th Apr 18, 12:56 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Delboytoo
    Calibration
    I was asked and said No, the reason being that I cannot ger the calibration period of the meter or monitor.

    It the system is designed to set the amount taken from my bank I want to know.

    If it there are errors ocurring and errant reading (similar to that I read in Holland) being sent I want to know.

    It is a secret.
    • Delboytoo
    • By Delboytoo 30th Apr 18, 1:13 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Delboytoo
    I was asked and said No, the reason being that I cannot ger the calibration period of the meter or monitor.

    It the system is designed to set the amount taken from my bank I want to know.

    If it there are errors ocurring and errant reading (similar to that I read in Holland) being sent I want to know.

    It is a secret.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 30th Apr 18, 1:47 PM
    • 5,729 Posts
    • 3,514 Thanks
    Hengus
    I was asked and said No, the reason being that I cannot ger the calibration period of the meter or monitor.

    It the system is designed to set the amount taken from my bank I want to know.

    If it there are errors ocurring and errant reading (similar to that I read in Holland) being sent I want to know.

    It is a secret.
    Originally posted by Delboytoo
    Suppliers can only take money out of your Bank account if you have agreed to, and set up, a variable Direct Debit. Under Direct Debit rules, they also have to inform you of the amount being taken. Smart meters are nothing more than a meter that records your usage. It is smart because it communicates either directly with your supplier or The Data Communications Company.

    I am not sure what you mean by calibration period? All meters - dumb or smart - are calibrated by the manufacturer before they are fitted.
    • joanie3
    • By joanie3 16th May 18, 8:05 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    joanie3
    Smart meter & Direct Debits
    I'd like a bit of advice please.
    Can I ask about how the Direct debits work should you choose to have a smart meter?
    My Dad is a pensioner on a fixed income and likes to budget roughly how much goes from his account each month for essential bills like the heating, water, council tax, insurance etc & has direct debits for a set amount each month.
    So what he wants to know is how (if they are constantly monitoring usage via Smart meter) they maintain taking the same amount out of his account each month?

    He had an issue a couple of years ago when they returned money to him as he was in credit, then lower his DDs, but several months later said he owed them a few hundred quid. So his DDs were increased to almost double what they had been originally. I stepped in to tell them they would get their money and explain if they'd left things alone he would have been on track, but they were not increase payments cos of their policy (they explained when people were in credit they give it back).

    I thought direct debits meant you paid X each month not Y, the Z on differing months.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 16th May 18, 8:19 AM
    • 3,808 Posts
    • 5,234 Thanks
    Nick_C
    I'd like a bit of advice please.
    Can I ask about how the Direct debits work should you choose to have a smart meter?
    My Dad is a pensioner on a fixed income and likes to budget roughly how much goes from his account each month for essential bills like the heating, water, council tax, insurance etc & has direct debits for a set amount each month.
    So what he wants to know is how (if they are constantly monitoring usage via Smart meter) they maintain taking the same amount out of his account each month?

    He had an issue a couple of years ago when they returned money to him as he was in credit, then lower his DDs, but several months later said he owed them a few hundred quid. So his DDs were increased to almost double what they had been originally. I stepped in to tell them they would get their money and explain if they'd left things alone he would have been on track, but they were not increase payments cos of their policy (they explained when people were in credit they give it back).

    I thought direct debits meant you paid X each month not Y, the Z on differing months.
    Originally posted by joanie3
    Smart meters shouldn't affect the amount you pay. They should mean the DD can be set more accurately, but IME the energy companies systems for estimating annual costs are not intelligent enough.

    Work out your dad's annual usage based on previous bills for a year or more and how much the annual bill should be.

    Although energy companies will tell you how much they want to take, they will usually vary it within reasonable limits.

    Some companies give you a credit if your account is in credit. I'm with Ovo, and they pay 3% on credit balances, which is better than most savings accounts, so I am quite happy to overpay them
    • Tiexen
    • By Tiexen 16th May 18, 8:42 AM
    • 517 Posts
    • 253 Thanks
    Tiexen
    I'd like a bit of advice please.
    Can I ask about how the Direct debits work should you choose to have a smart meter?
    My Dad is a pensioner on a fixed income and likes to budget roughly how much goes from his account each month for essential bills like the heating, water, council tax, insurance etc & has direct debits for a set amount each month.
    So what he wants to know is how (if they are constantly monitoring usage via Smart meter) they maintain taking the same amount out of his account each month?

    He had an issue a couple of years ago when they returned money to him as he was in credit, then lower his DDs, but several months later said he owed them a few hundred quid. So his DDs were increased to almost double what they had been originally. I stepped in to tell them they would get their money and explain if they'd left things alone he would have been on track, but they were not increase payments cos of their policy (they explained when people were in credit they give it back).

    I thought direct debits meant you paid X each month not Y, the Z on differing months.
    Originally posted by joanie3

    I had smart meters fitted last year they take reading every 1/2 hour but only do DD changes every 3 months, my last review I was only 50p out.
    • mbmonty
    • By mbmonty 16th May 18, 10:16 AM
    • 110 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    mbmonty
    I'd like a bit of advice please.
    Can I ask about how the Direct debits work should you choose to have a smart meter?
    My Dad is a pensioner on a fixed income and likes to budget roughly how much goes from his account each month for essential bills like the heating, water, council tax, insurance etc & has direct debits for a set amount each month.
    So what he wants to know is how (if they are constantly monitoring usage via Smart meter) they maintain taking the same amount out of his account each month?

    He had an issue a couple of years ago when they returned money to him as he was in credit, then lower his DDs, but several months later said he owed them a few hundred quid. So his DDs were increased to almost double what they had been originally. I stepped in to tell them they would get their money and explain if they'd left things alone he would have been on track, but they were not increase payments cos of their policy (they explained when people were in credit they give it back).

    I thought direct debits meant you paid X each month not Y, the Z on differing months.
    Originally posted by joanie3

    I do not trust energy companies, they have billions of our money from over charging.

    I pay in quarterly bills but I pay money into second account every month so once the bill arrives I can pay it.

    The regulator is or has brought in new rule making credit more visible, some people have thousands and they can apparently take up to 28 days to pay you back your own money,

    I think elderly particularly at risk.

    One of the so called benefits of smart meters was that you would only be charged for what you used.

    Their goal is to move us all to monthly billing.
    • harrym1byt
    • By harrym1byt 16th May 18, 4:05 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    harrym1byt
    I find the usefulness of SM's varies considerably, not on the actual SM installed, but on the companies ability to use the information and present it in a useful way to the consumer.

    I have been with E.On, then OVO, then First Utility and now Bristol Energy - for E & G and changing supplier as I have found cheaper. OVO installed our first SM, replaced when we moved to FU, then replaced again when we moved to BE.

    OVO, then FU were able to accept and present the 30 minute derived data in a usable format, on our account page on their website. I was able to see what my recorded consumption was down to half an hour.

    Bristol Energy are now using the meters, agreed to 30min data, but I have no means at all to look at the data. In fact (very annoying) they only read the meters weekly and only produce a rough bar graph for the months consumption, compared to one year ago.

    Each time we have changed supplier, there has been an up to 6 month delay between the switch and them replacing the meters during which I have had to go out and manually read them.

    SM's have a long way to go yet before they become a sensible option, they should never have been pushed onto the public in this state of development..

    I use the variable DD method of paying monthly, which I much prefer. The DD amount is based on spreading the predicted energy cost over the full 12 months, no large bills in the winter, no small ones in the summer period. The prediction of course can never be entirely accurate, it was a long drawn out winter, so we used a little more energy than normal, so the DD amount had to be increased to compensate.
    • PhilE
    • By PhilE 16th May 18, 6:48 PM
    • 302 Posts
    • 189 Thanks
    PhilE
    Everyone has their own opinion, if the public get the chance to look into the evidence for and against the use of smart meters, they could then make their own informed decision on whether its right for them and the environment . At the moment I don't think people are getting the option.
    Originally posted by sparrowhawk123
    There's been evidence that increased electronic pollution from mobile internet is detrimental to health, the smart meters are using mobile internet technology.

    Its well known that companies and governments, cannot resist but take additional data from us without are full knowledge.

    There's absolutely no good reason to have a smart meter. In fact, they already have been over charging customers and causing problems the old meters were not.
    • harrym1byt
    • By harrym1byt 16th May 18, 7:15 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    harrym1byt
    There's been evidence that increased electronic pollution from mobile internet is detrimental to health, the smart meters are using mobile internet technology.

    Its well known that companies and governments, cannot resist but take additional data from us without are full knowledge.

    There's absolutely no good reason to have a smart meter. In fact, they already have been over charging customers and causing problems the old meters were not.
    Originally posted by PhilE
    The meters try to transmit once per day at around midnight, at similar output power to a mobile phone. The likelihood is that you will be no where near the meter, when it does transmit its brief burst of data. Risk from such transmissions declines following the inverse square law - double the distance one quarter the power/risk.

    Contrast that with a mobile phone, using similar output power, but a fraction of an inch from your brain and transmitting for many minutes during a call.

    I have seen no valid data that supports any smart meter having over charged a customer in normal circumstances. I have seen a report that under very special circumstances, with an abnormal load, a smart meter could mis-record the consumption, but that is also true of the old mechanical meters.
    Last edited by harrym1byt; 16-05-2018 at 7:23 PM.
    • jaybeetoo
    • By jaybeetoo 16th May 18, 7:42 PM
    • 586 Posts
    • 278 Thanks
    jaybeetoo
    My smart meter is now an unsmart meter since I moved supplier.

    Whoever designed this smart reader rollout needs to be fired.

    What a waste of money and it is us consumers paying for it.
    • harrym1byt
    • By harrym1byt 17th May 18, 7:11 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    harrym1byt
    My smart meter is now an unsmart meter since I moved supplier.

    Whoever designed this smart reader rollout needs to be fired.

    What a waste of money and it is us consumers paying for it.
    Originally posted by jaybeetoo
    That, I absolutely agree with, it is a complete shambles.
    • mac.d
    • By mac.d 17th May 18, 10:08 AM
    • 638 Posts
    • 514 Thanks
    mac.d
    The meters try to transmit once per day at around midnight, at similar output power to a mobile phone.
    Originally posted by harrym1byt
    Ignoring the possible health issues, this isn't correct. You can change the frequency of how often your smart meter sends readings to the supplier (usually half-hourly, daily or monthly), but I'm pretty sure they are usually automatically set for half-hourly readings.

    For example, EDF states:

    Why is it best for my smart meter to send readings every half hour?

    - When your meter sends readings every half hour, your display monitor shows you how much energy you're using every half hour (you can also see this information in a helpful chart by clicking on 'My energy graphs' in MyAccount)
    - With such an accurate picture, you can see where you might be able to save energy, and cut your energy bills
    - Half-hourly reads also mean you avoid estimated bills (unless in the rare event your smart meter loses connection)
    • harrym1byt
    • By harrym1byt 17th May 18, 10:44 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    harrym1byt
    Ignoring the possible health issues, this isn't correct. You can change the frequency of how often your smart meter sends readings to the supplier (usually half-hourly, daily or monthly), but I'm pretty sure they are usually automatically set for half-hourly readings.

    For example, EDF states:
    Originally posted by mac.d
    Sorry, but you are wrong....

    The meter logs the values every 30 minutes, but the logged readings are only uploaded/transmitted once per day at around midnight in a batch, via the mobile phone network.

    Experience of my last three sets of SM's, suggests the default setting is for a weekly reading to be uploaded, I had to ask for the 30 minute data and it took a while to appear..

    The indoor display system, is entirely separate from the frequency that data is uploaded and stored by your energy supplier sent using the mobile phone data system. The indoor display receives updates every few seconds for electricity consumption and roughly every two minutes for gas consumption. That occurs via a system similar to you home wireless LAN for your internet. I would assume the less frequent updates for the gas consumption, is the result of the gas meter operating entirely on a battery and the electric meter having a near constant mains supply available to it.

    Also the reason why the the gas meter just reports its value to the electric meter, then the electric meter reports both values back to the supplier. Also the reason why you cannot have a smart gas meter, without having a smart electric meter. Also the reason why if the gas meter is unable due to separation distance between the two meters to communicate, that they cannot install SM's.
    Last edited by harrym1byt; 17-05-2018 at 11:05 AM.
    • larrywalker
    • By larrywalker 17th May 18, 11:57 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    larrywalker
    Smart Meters - Roll Out
    I am currently with Ecotricity as I run a Nissan LEAF all electric car.
    I like to be a loyal customer but times are changing.
    I have asked them to install a smart meter but they can't because my gas and electric meters are 60 cm apart and new rules dictate that meters should be 2m apart.
    That being the case I cannot see how the smart meter roll out can be achieved. I would think that most meters in homes are close together under the stairs.
    Consequently the smart meter roll out is not achievable and I have not seen any reference to this. However I do know that someone who is a Scottish Power customer had a smart meter installed where the existing meters were close together - so why the discrepancies?
    Smart Energy GB are responsible for the roll out and state that by the end of 2020, around 53 million smart meters will be fitted in over 30 million premises (households and businesses) across Wales, Scotland and England. ( smart energy gborg)
    How can this be? Who is policing this?
    Has anyone else had this problem/come across this??
    Last edited by larrywalker; 17-05-2018 at 12:11 PM. Reason: incomplete sentence
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 17th May 18, 12:03 PM
    • 5,729 Posts
    • 3,514 Thanks
    Hengus
    There's been evidence that increased electronic pollution from mobile internet is detrimental to health, the smart meters are using mobile internet technology.
    Originally posted by PhilE
    Evidence?

    Quote: Despite statements from groups such as Health Canada, Public Health England and the American Cancer Society that say smart meters don't pose any health risks, anti-smart meter advocates claim the radiofrequency (RF) energy emitted by the devices can cause a host of health conditions, like cancer, autism and Parkinson's disease.

    Like all wireless devices, smart meters emit RF energy.

    "The amount of energy absorbed depends largely on how close your body is to a smart meter," reads Health Canada's website. "Unlike cellular phones, where the transmitter is held close to the head and much of the RF energy that is absorbed is localized to one specific area, RF energy from smart meters is typically transmitted at a much greater distance from the human body.

    "This results in very low RF exposure levels across the entire body, much like exposure to AM or FM radio broadcast signals."

    In other words, if you're really concerned about smart meters, you probably shouldn't use a cellphone. Unquote

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/smart-meter-myth-busting-nova-scotia-1.4594681

    PS: My router is currently picking up 38 nearby wifi networks and I live in a rural area. I think that this particular horse has bolted. I dread to think how many networks I would see in my router log if I lived in central London.
    • harrym1byt
    • By harrym1byt 17th May 18, 12:18 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    harrym1byt
    I am currently with Ecotricity as I run a Nissan LEAF all electric car.
    I like to be a loyal customer but times are changing.
    I have asked them to install a smart meter but they can't because my gas and electric meters are 60 cm apart and new rules dictate that meters should be 2m apart.
    That being the case I cannot see how the smart meter roll out can be achieved. I would think that most meters in homes are close together under the stairs.
    Consequently the smart meter roll out is not achievable and I have not seen any reference to this. However I do know that someone who is a Scottish Power customer had a smart meter installed so why the discrepancies?
    Smart Energy GB are responsible for the roll out and state that by the end of 2020, around 53 million smart meters will be fitted in over 30 million premises (households and businesses) across Wales, Scotland and England. ( smart energy gborg)
    How can this be? Who is policing this?
    Has anyone else had this problem/come across this??
    Originally posted by larrywalker
    I must admit I haven't heard of that rule and it makes absolutely no sense anyway. Might somebody be making up excuses? A local friend with BG had them installed and his two meters were back to back with each other, no more than 1 foot apart.

    The only ones which I heard they were unable to install, was where there was inadequate mobile signal, of the two meters so far apart that the could not communicate between them.

    My own meters are adjacent to each other, in two of those outdoor cupboards - rather less than 2m apart.
    • mbmonty
    • By mbmonty 17th May 18, 2:01 PM
    • 110 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    mbmonty
    I think these dumb meters are for lazy people and the whole project is a massive waste of billions BUT as they are going to steam roller us into these crap devices, who is the best company to be with come October when they have to install the Smet2 meters.

    Looking at the in home display the British Gas seems the easiest to use, I wonder do they all have option run on batteries?

    Some look really dire.

    What other the other considerations, such as online portal, access to historical data, do any have their own App?

    I guess should also be asking which are the 5 worst companies when it comes to smart meters?
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