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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    • 105Posts
    • 32Thanks
    MSE Karl
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    Smart Meters 31st Oct 17 at 5:13 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 09-11-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 19
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 9th Apr 18, 9:50 PM
    • 6,840 Posts
    • 4,395 Thanks
    Hengus
    I live in shared accommodation. Would a smart meter show which room in the house is using the most electric & save this information?
    Originally posted by gf24
    Welcome to forum. No - it is nothing more than a meter that records usage which it sends to the supplier.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 9th Apr 18, 11:25 PM
    • 2,201 Posts
    • 3,113 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    Zooming in, the word "Unsubscribe" appears - in tiny grey text - which all but disappears when viewed at normal resolution. Something like this:- Unsubscribe - although MSE sensibly doesn't have a light enough grey nor small enough font to accurately represent the original.
    .
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    thanks. Found it and unsubscribed. I don't need a smart meter, particularly not a SMETS1 one, as I have my own monitor, solar panels and an awareness of what I'm using and when. The sun should come out Wednesday and I'll be setting off the washing machine!
    • mbmonty
    • By mbmonty 10th Apr 18, 12:40 AM
    • 138 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    mbmonty
    I live in shared accommodation. Would a smart meter show which room in the house is using the most electric & save this information?
    Originally posted by gf24
    No they are DUMB, all they can tell you is how much you have used in total to date.

    Being in a room will not be your only energy usage

    A DUMB meter will not tell you that the fridge freezer is using the most electricity

    A DUMB meter will not tell you that the Gas Cooker is using more than the Boiler

    You can buy meters on eBay for £6 that will tell you how much you are using on a given appliance.

    Monitor each one for a week and you will have an idea of your usage but unless you are a lodger you are probably responsible for an equal share of the bill (divided by the number of occupants).

    Friends of mine have noticed how some Landlords have made energy bills and even the TV Licence a profit centre, charging occupants more than the bill.
    Last edited by mbmonty; 10-04-2018 at 8:32 AM.
    • MalMonroe
    • By MalMonroe 10th Apr 18, 1:12 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    MalMonroe
    No. This link is helpful https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/about-smart-meters/what-is-a-smart-meter
    • Gromitt
    • By Gromitt 10th Apr 18, 12:05 PM
    • 4,981 Posts
    • 2,383 Thanks
    Gromitt
    Around 82% of people with smart meters say they now have a better idea of what they are spending on energy, with the same proportion saying they have taken steps to reduce energy waste.
    Originally posted by Michaelw
    If 82% change their energy habits and and use less energy as a result, this would mean less energy used so less profit for the energy companies which then complain and have to increase energy prices as a result to get back to profits they were used to. No one wants to educate people to make them earn less money.

    Didn't this happen in the past (years ago) in the governments last big push on reducing energy ? I'm sure my bill went down at the time, but not for long before it was hiked up again!
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 10th Apr 18, 12:10 PM
    • 6,840 Posts
    • 4,395 Thanks
    Hengus
    If 82% change their energy habits and and use less energy as a result, this would mean less energy used so less profit for the energy companies which then complain and have to increase energy prices as a result to get back to profits they were used to. No one wants to educate people to make them earn less money.

    Didn't this happen in the past (years ago) in the governments last big push on reducing energy ? I'm sure my bill went down at the time, but not for long before it was hiked up again!
    Originally posted by Gromitt
    I am not sure that I agree with you as energy use has already fallen without the ‘benefit’ of smart meters. For example, condensing gas boilers; LEDs; smart heating controls, and AAA rated appliances have all contributed to the fall.

    In the main, as energy itself now accounts for less than 40p in every £ that we pay, the reason for cost increases is down to factors out with the supplier’s control. For example, social and economic costs - WHD; FIT payments; the consumer levy etc.
    • mbmonty
    • By mbmonty 10th Apr 18, 7:09 PM
    • 138 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    mbmonty
    Around 82% of people with smart meters say they now have a better idea of what they are spending on energy, with the same proportion saying they have taken steps to reduce energy waste.
    Originally posted by Michaelw
    If 82% change their energy habits and and use less energy as a result, this would mean less energy used so less profit for the energy companies which then complain and have to increase energy prices as a result to get back to profits they were used to. No one wants to educate people to make them earn less money.

    Didn't this happen in the past (years ago) in the governments last big push on reducing energy ? I'm sure my bill went down at the time, but not for long before it was hiked up again!
    Originally posted by Gromitt
    You are right except that we must not believe this 82% nonsense, if you look at the questions they ask they are very wish washy, more aware, honestly what a load of BS. The DUMB meters do not tell you that your old fridge freezer uses more energy than chernobyl or any other appliance.

    What we have seen is that they made more profit gambling because of the increased demand caused by the snow this winter.

    You are right that they will make more and more profit, because that is the expectation of their shareholders, when we regulate them they find a way to make us pay more. They have become dependent on the billions they hold of customers money in advanced direct debt payments.

    The useless energy regulator says they have to pay that back within 28 days upon request, WHY 28 days when it is YOUR money, one customer was owed over £3600!

    When they were told to make consumers aware of how much they had on account they buried it in a load of blah on their bill. So they have had to be regulated AGAIN to make it more clear.

    In any other business if you were owed more than the next bill you could get a refund immediately.

    How many threads on here have been started where the energy company increases the direct debit unreasonably. That is why I do not pay by direct debit and never will again.

    Now they are going to allow two of the big 6 to merge, mark my words, it will make the market less competitive, they already have a stanglehold on the smaller players because they control the gambling rate of energy.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 11th Apr 18, 2:27 AM
    • 2,296 Posts
    • 3,364 Thanks
    badmemory
    Smart meters are irrelevant re your actual usage. Are you going to turn your freezer off because it is using too much. Well maybe if you have used all the food it contains. But seriously would having a smart meter convince you to dispose of your freezer?

    My usage ( not the size of the bill that is just about never going to drop) went down when I replaced my old CRT? screens for TV & computers by the newer flat screens. Then went down again when I replaced my old boiler, then again when I replaced my light bulbs with lower usage ones but ones I could actually see across the room with & didn't take so long to warm up I'd turned them back off again.

    I expect my next drop in usage to be when I replace the freezer & fridge with something which should use about a third of what they do. Yes my usage will drop but my bill - not a chance.

    These companies are going to bill £xbn per annum so that they can have profits of £ybn no matter what we do, our main focus should be preventing them from making £zbn profit.
    • mbmonty
    • By mbmonty 11th Apr 18, 5:08 PM
    • 138 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    mbmonty
    Smart meters are irrelevant re your actual usage. Are you going to turn your freezer off because it is using too much. Well maybe if you have used all the food it contains. But seriously would having a smart meter convince you to dispose of your freezer?

    My usage ( not the size of the bill that is just about never going to drop) went down when I replaced my old CRT? screens for TV & computers by the newer flat screens. Then went down again when I replaced my old boiler, then again when I replaced my light bulbs with lower usage ones but ones I could actually see across the room with & didn't take so long to warm up I'd turned them back off again.

    I expect my next drop in usage to be when I replace the freezer & fridge with something which should use about a third of what they do. Yes my usage will drop but my bill - not a chance.

    These companies are going to bill £xbn per annum so that they can have profits of £ybn no matter what we do, our main focus should be preventing them from making £zbn profit.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    My niece did actually replace her Fridge Freezer because of energy consumption but not because of a smart meter, she used a meter she saw on a YouTube video.

    You are SO right though, we all trot around like lemmings doing what we are told to save energy and the actual price we pay keeps going up.

    If you want to know why just listen to the business news and how share price is reduced when they make less money and vice versa in the alternative.

    Ironically the trading in these markets and related activities is so massive that it could fund giving us all free energy. Such gambing would not be possible without our usage, it is done on our backs.

    The simple fact is that Dumb Meters have been a con from the beginning, the billions it cost for the programme is being borne by US albeit that costs are hidden in what we pay.

    The Regulator is useless and not fit for purpose, the Politicians are just as useless, I am not a Corbyn fan but I do feel that if he got into power he would at least give this disgusting industry some comeuppance.

    Meanwhile the Dumb Meter programme should be abandonned immediately along with the standing charge and of course energy rates should be lowered by 40% across the board.
    • thor
    • By thor 11th Apr 18, 7:09 PM
    • 5,269 Posts
    • 1,887 Thanks
    thor
    Although not as effective as the government was hoping, I do believe that smart meters will overall influence people to reduce the energy they use. For example, I know of people who used to spend an age in electric showers and as they use so much electricity you can see the usage mount up in the meter display. Once they realised this they cut down their showering time to less than 10 minutes which made a massive difference to their bills. This still won't cover all the money spent on meters though.
    The thing that peeves me is that not only have the government allowed the energy companies to pass on the costs to the consumer but what about all the savings made through needing less meter readers?
    The companies will claim that they have passed on the savings to keep prices low but going by their past record, I simply do not trust them.
    • LMS123
    • By LMS123 12th Apr 18, 2:05 PM
    • 42 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    LMS123
    EON and smart meters
    So, as an EON customer, I arrived home today to find a leaflet posted through my letterbox from EON.
    It says "We called round to book an appointment to change your old meter for a free self-reading smart meter." Who is "we"? Sounds like I am being pressured in to this!
    It then listed all the usual "benefits" of a smart meter and urged me to phone them or go online to book an appointment.
    No thanks, EON. I don't want a "free" smart meter (for which I am already paying through my bills).
    I am quite happily providing regular readings so my bills aren't estimated and I have no time to rush to the smart meter and watch how much energy I use whenever I turn on an electrical appliance or the gas boiler.
    My boiler is past its best, to say the least, and I fear that it may not come on again once it has been turned off to install a new meter. Yes, am in the process of sorting a new boiler, but not yet.
    Am I now paying through my bills for someone to trail about delivering these leaflets?
    I am reminded about smart meters every time I log on to EON. I will not have a smart meter until/if they become compulsory. As far as I'm aware the 2020 government target for smart meters is that all households should have been "offered" the opportunity to change over, not that all the old meters are replaced by smart meters.
    This scheme is a joke, with the phase 1 meters' incompatability , the phase 2 meters roll out, reports of meter redundancy if you change supplier and reports of faulty meters which, by all accounts, only last 10 years at best before they need replacing.
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 12th Apr 18, 2:31 PM
    • 6,301 Posts
    • 30,236 Thanks
    pineapple
    So, as an EON customer, I arrived home today to find a leaflet posted through my letterbox from EON.
    It says "We called round to book an appointment to change your old meter for a free self-reading smart meter." Who is "we"? Sounds like I am being pressured in to this!
    Originally posted by LMS123
    You might be interested in this then
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-5367339/Energy-firm-Eon-tells-customers-NEED-smart-meter.html
    It's disingenuous at the very least for energy companies not to make it clear that smart meters are not (yet) compulsory.
    The elderly couple next door, who are also with Eon, got what sounds to be the same communication. They have booked an appointment because they don't really understand any of it and didn't realise they had a choice
    • mbmonty
    • By mbmonty 12th Apr 18, 2:51 PM
    • 138 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    mbmonty
    I would say that this IS harassment, what happens if your meters are in a communal area do they do it without your consent?

    I would be asking EON who is the company that delivered this leaflet, if it had your name on it I would do a Subject Access Request regarding your data and who they have shared it with without your permission for what is in effect a marketing exercise.

    The leaflet is advertising so an ASA complaint seems appropriate, especially if they did not advise you that it is not compulsory.

    Isn't there a law against people knocking at your door for appointments?

    Anyone who knocks at my door without a confirmed appointment usually finds themselves escorted out to the street, including charity door to door chuggers who seem to come to my area in a van and swamp the place.

    Does this not remind you of the period of time when the energy companies employed chuggers to get your name at supermarkets and then say you requested to change energy suppliers.

    For the harassment aspect I think you need to report EON to the regulator.

    It is so typical of them dumping their old not fit for purpose kit on people, did you read the posts about confusing Indian business meters being installed as smart meters.

    I would advise your neighbours that it is NOT compulsory.

    If they ever put one in my place without my permission I will short it out to make it fail then report it faulty and dangerous.

    Meanwhile from the article, contact Rebeca

    "If your energy firm is pushing you into installing a smart meter and you think it's sending misleading information, please get in touch with us at experts@thisismoney.co.uk".
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 12th Apr 18, 3:52 PM
    • 4,487 Posts
    • 6,473 Thanks
    Nick_C
    what happens if your meters are in a communal area do they do it without your consent?
    Originally posted by mbmonty
    You need to be at home when they come to change your meter. According to Ovo anyway. My meters are outside, but they came in to turn off the electricity at the consumer unit, and they checked that everything was working OK before they left.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    So, as an EON customer, I arrived home today to find a leaflet posted through my letterbox from EON.
    It says "We called round to book an appointment to change your old meter for a free self-reading smart meter." Who is "we"? Sounds like I am being pressured in to this!
    It then listed all the usual "benefits" of a smart meter and urged me to phone them or go online to book an appointment.
    No thanks, EON. I don't want a "free" smart meter (for which I am already paying through my bills).
    I am quite happily providing regular readings so my bills aren't estimated and I have no time to rush to the smart meter and watch how much energy I use whenever I turn on an electrical appliance or the gas boiler.
    My boiler is past its best, to say the least, and I fear that it may not come on again once it has been turned off to install a new meter. Yes, am in the process of sorting a new boiler, but not yet.
    Am I now paying through my bills for someone to trail about delivering these leaflets?
    I am reminded about smart meters every time I log on to EON. I will not have a smart meter until/if they become compulsory. As far as I'm aware the 2020 government target for smart meters is that all households should have been "offered" the opportunity to change over, not that all the old meters are replaced by smart meters.
    This scheme is a joke, with the phase 1 meters' incompatability , the phase 2 meters roll out, reports of meter redundancy if you change supplier and reports of faulty meters which, by all accounts, only last 10 years at best before they need replacing.
    Originally posted by LMS123
    Hello LMS123 and I'm sorry you're unhappy with the material we've left. We're using several different channels to make customers aware of our smart meter programme. One of these channels involves our meter readers. They've begun having smart related conversations with customers when they're in certain areas as part of their routine reading cycle. I suspect this is who left the leaflet.

    In these areas, our meter readers can now book appointments directly from a customer's property. Please be assured, we wouldn't fit smart meters without your permission. As you say, these meters are optional and you're free to reject our offers.

    Many thanks for continuing to send us your meter readings. It's really appreciated. The more readings we have, the greater the accuracy of bills and related information like payment arrangements. Although smart meters are one way of doing this, there are other channels including online through our website, phone app or Live Chat service, by phone or text, email or letter. Whichever suits individual customers.

    Sorry again you didn't like the leaflet LMS123.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 13th Apr 18, 2:40 PM
    • 6,840 Posts
    • 4,395 Thanks
    Hengus
    One of these channels involves our meter readers. They've begun having smart related conversations with customers when they're in certain areas as part of their routine reading cycle. I suspect this is who left the leaflet.


    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Malc

    Are you free to say whether the meter readers engaged in this promotion are being paid commission for every E.oN customer that signs up for a smart meter? I cannot see why any meter reader would want to engage in a conversation with customers that could ultimately lead to a loss of meter reader jobs unless there is a short-term financial gain.
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    You might be interested in this then
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-5367339/Energy-firm-Eon-tells-customers-NEED-smart-meter.html
    It's disingenuous at the very least for energy companies not to make it clear that smart meters are not (yet) compulsory.
    The elderly couple next door, who are also with Eon, got what sounds to be the same communication. They have booked an appointment because they don't really understand any of it and didn't realise they had a choice
    Originally posted by pineapple
    Hello pineapple.

    If your neighbours are unsure about this please ask them to contact our smart meter teams (contact details are on our website and their bills) as soon as possible. We can go through how the meters work and what they do. Should they decide they no longer want them, the appointment can be stopped. If it goes ahead, there's little we can do after the meters are fitted. It's unlikely we'll change them unless there's a fault.

    You mention your neighbours are elderly. Is it easy for them to read their existing meters? If not, smart meters might help. Although, if they're on our Priority Services Register (register of vulnerable customers), they might already be eligible for special reading visits before each scheduled bill. There's more information about this on our website.

    Thanks pineapple.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    I would say that this IS harassment, what happens if your meters are in a communal area do they do it without your consent?

    I would be asking EON who is the company that delivered this leaflet, if it had your name on it I would do a Subject Access Request regarding your data and who they have shared it with without your permission for what is in effect a marketing exercise.

    The leaflet is advertising so an ASA complaint seems appropriate, especially if they did not advise you that it is not compulsory.

    Isn't there a law against people knocking at your door for appointments?

    Anyone who knocks at my door without a confirmed appointment usually finds themselves escorted out to the street, including charity door to door chuggers who seem to come to my area in a van and swamp the place.

    Does this not remind you of the period of time when the energy companies employed chuggers to get your name at supermarkets and then say you requested to change energy suppliers.

    For the harassment aspect I think you need to report EON to the regulator.

    It is so typical of them dumping their old not fit for purpose kit on people, did you read the posts about confusing Indian business meters being installed as smart meters.

    I would advise your neighbours that it is NOT compulsory.

    If they ever put one in my place without my permission I will short it out to make it fail then report it faulty and dangerous.

    Meanwhile from the article, contact Rebeca

    "If your energy firm is pushing you into installing a smart meter and you think it's sending misleading information, please get in touch with us at experts@thisismoney.co.uk".
    Originally posted by mbmonty
    Hello mbmonty and to confirm my post above in reply to LMS123, we wouldn't fit smart meters without a customer's consent. Also, as Nick_C says, customers need to be at home before we can start the installation. The power will be off for a short time and customers need to turn off all sensitive equipment.

    As above, I suspect the leaflet was left by a meter reader during their routine reading cycle.

    We like to keep in touch with customers so we can send details about important changes to their accounts and tell them about our other products and services. We won’t, though, share personal data with other organisations, including those in the E.ON group, for marketing purposes unless we've a customer's permission to do this. We're also not involved with door to door energy sales.

    I'd encourage any of our customers who are unhappy with what we're doing to use our complaints process. If we aren't able to sort out their issue, we'll let them know how to approach the Energy Ombudsman for an independent review. There are more details about how to do this on our website.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    E.ON Smart Meters
    Malc

    Are you free to say whether the meter readers engaged in this promotion are being paid commission for every E.oN customer that signs up for a smart meter? I cannot see why any meter reader would want to engage in a conversation with customers that could ultimately lead to a loss of meter reader jobs unless there is a short-term financial gain.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    I'm afraid I don't know Hengus. To be honest, it's not the sort of thing I would be able to post on a public forum as it involves sensitive personal information.

    I do know, the aim of this project is to reduce the number of job failures and increase the rate of first time smart installs. Having someone familiar with metering carry out a site survey at the premises will help identify potential difficulties.

    Sorry I can't help with this Hengus.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 13th Apr 18, 5:04 PM
    • 6,840 Posts
    • 4,395 Thanks
    Hengus
    I'm afraid I don't know Hengus. To be honest, it's not the sort of thing I would be able to post on a public forum as it involves sensitive personal information.

    I do know, the aim of this project is to reduce the number of job failures and increase the rate of first time smart installs. Having someone familiar with metering carry out a site survey at the premises will help identify potential difficulties.

    Sorry I can't help with this Hengus.

    Malc
    Originally posted by E.ON Company Representative: Malc
    Thanks Malc. My worry here is that Ofgem states that suppliers have to 'take all reasonable steps' to get consumers to accept a smart meter by 2020. Sadly, 'reasonable steps' has not been defined and saying 'No - I do not want a smart meter' to a supplier doesn't actually mean 'No' as Ofgem has made clear to all suppliers in a recent policy letter:

    Quote: We expect suppliers to consider their approach to customer refusals and how they will address these. Suppliers should think about how they will handle both implicit refusals (for example, customers who do not respond to contact attempts) and explicit refusals (for example, customers who actively do not want a meter exchange). Such customers should be re-entered into the engagement strategy, with that strategy evolving to reflect lessons learned on consumer engagement. Unquote

    I read this paragraph as meaning that any customer who has declined to accept a smart meter as a result of Initiative 'A' is immediately re-entered into the smart meter engagement programme when a supplier comes up with Initiative B - the chatty (incentivised) meter reader; or Initiative C -............

    So in truth, consumers do not actually have the right to say "no" in the knowledge that by saying 'no' that is the end of it unless the consumer contacts the supplier. We will have to keep saying 'no' to every marketing scheme that a supplier's smart metering team comes up with.
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