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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    • 61Posts
    • 20Thanks
    MSE Karl
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    Smart Meters 31st Oct 17 at 5:13 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven!!!8217;t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 09-11-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 14
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 9th Feb 18, 3:36 PM
    • 4,131 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    zeupater
    Do you think anybody, gov or ombudsman or whoever, would ever dare enforce that act? I can't see anyone wanting us to know how much they have actually thrown away in the last few years on this & almost all to no avail!
    Originally posted by badmemory
    Hi

    As long as the clauses make it through the process as currently worded, there's not much anyone can do to hold the process - 'shall' & 'must' are pretty compelling terms ...

    The only issue I see is that the decision to implement the powers made available by clause 5 would depend on the analysis required by clause 6(2) and how this is seen by the Secretary of State (under scrutiny of both houses) when considering changing supply licenses ...

    At worst, there's a detailed analysis & at best the shady practices linked to the smart-metering project have the bright light of transparency shone upon them! ... <shades on ready! .. >

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 9th Feb 18, 5:06 PM
    • 5,585 Posts
    • 3,426 Thanks
    Hengus
    Ofgem would have a statutory obligation to amend Standard Licence Conditions to reflect all the changes that the Government makes to The Energy Act.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 9th Feb 18, 6:57 PM
    • 4,131 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    zeupater
    Ofgem would have a statutory obligation to amend Standard Licence Conditions to reflect all the changes that the Government makes to The Energy Act.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Hi

    I agree, but that first requires the additional powers provided by clause 5 to be used ....
    This new clause would allow the Secretary of State by order to amend licence conditions so that energy suppliers are required to include the cost to the customer of the Smart Meter Programme in all customer energy bills for the period covered by the energy bill.
    ... but 'allow' suggests that the decision to amend the licence conditions is optional, therefore Ofgem don't necessarily get involved.

    Having mentioned this, I see no reasons why the Government are actively seeking the new clause 5 powers if there's no intent to utilise them!

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 9th Feb 18, 8:21 PM
    • 1,539 Posts
    • 1,966 Thanks
    badmemory
    There is no way this is actually going to be enacted for several years. No government is going to voluntarily walk into this after they have totally messed up already. Surely even the current government aren't stupid enough to walk headlong into this ****storm. I may go away and think about that last sentence.
    • LilyChilliPepper
    • By LilyChilliPepper 14th Feb 18, 7:44 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    LilyChilliPepper
    How do I 'read' a smart meter??
    Apologies if this has been raised, but I'm not sure where else to go. Wondering if anyone else has experienced this:
    A while ago I was with Flow. Changed to OVO as better deal came along. Hey presto they installed smart meters for gas and electricity. Loved my smart meters, didn't have to send readings and everything ticking along nicely. When my fix ended, OVO couldn't better new deal from my old company Flow, so I switched back.
    Now Flow have mucked up my readings- they aren't fitting smart meters yet, but have somehow merged my old account with my new one and have come up with a ludicrous charge for my electricity. I can't work out how to read my smart meter 'manually' and neither can any of the customer service people at Flow.
    What is the point of these meters if they are not compatible with a different supplier? It is once again a hassle and not worth switching with all the aggro you get with it- it seems we have gone backwards. Flow are not being very helpful with trying to rectify their mistake. Wish I had never left OVO...
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Feb 18, 8:06 PM
    • 3,749 Posts
    • 5,160 Thanks
    Nick_C
    If you Google "ovo how to read a smart meter" you will find the Web page that answers your question!
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 14th Feb 18, 8:15 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 1,067 Thanks
    House Martin
    Press button 9 on the keypad. electric meter reading is on first screen, shown as Kw, watch out for the reading on Kvarh, screen 5 I think ,which is nonsense for UK domestic electric meters and should nt be on there. There are 8 digits but only read the first 7 up to the decimal point. The reading which counts is the first 5 , eg 0001453.8 , so electric read is 01453.
    Similar for gas meter reading, button 9. Do not use the In House Display for this reading because it only gives it in gas kwhs. You want it in cubic metres, or M3 showing on the smart meter, but of course the suppliers who have chosen this meter could nt give a damn about the end user
    Most times these meters scroll through pretty quickly so may have to give it a couple of scroll rounds if you miss the reading
    Last edited by House Martin; 19-02-2018 at 11:56 AM.
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 15th Feb 18, 10:06 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Michaelw
    Half of households don!!!8217;t want a smart meter

    When asked: !!!8220;Would you get a smart meter?!!!8221; Of the 1,552 people who voted, 47% said they don!!!8217;t have a smart meter and don!!!8217;t want one.

    https://www.moneywise.co.uk/news/2018-02-15/half-households-dont-want-smart-meter

    Top four smart meter problems and how to solve them What to do if your smart meter turns dumb, or you struggle to get an energy meter reading

    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/top-four-smart-meter-problems-and-how-to-solve-them/ - Which?
    Last edited by Michaelw; 15-02-2018 at 10:08 PM.
    • roachguard
    • By roachguard 15th Feb 18, 11:08 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    roachguard
    i was told by EDF today there are no smart meters for economy 7 so don't expect one soon
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 18th Feb 18, 7:54 PM
    • 5,585 Posts
    • 3,426 Thanks
    Hengus
    And the experts remain concerned about smart meter security:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/18/smart-meters-could-leave-british-homes-vulnerable-cyber-attacks/
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 18th Feb 18, 9:48 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 1,067 Thanks
    House Martin
    i was told by EDF today there are no smart meters for economy 7 so don't expect one soon
    Originally posted by roachguard
    One wonders why the mainstream suppliers cannot enable smart Eco 7 when Secure Liberty meter suppliers users can do it ( Ovo ,Utilita etc ) and have been doing this for years.
    BG have proved they can do smart 2 rate weekend free tariff they have up and running for 2 years.
    Its completely baffling why they are hanging back
    . i have my own theories that they are afraid of the mayhem it will create from all the hundreds of thousands of Eco 7 meters who are receiving transposed billings from ancient old analogue timer switches and digital meters with clocks well out of time
    • PLYSU
    • By PLYSU 18th Feb 18, 11:56 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    PLYSU
    to save this going on on forever and ever. This is how it is.

    1. If you want one, get one.
    2. If you don't want one, decline any offer of one.

    THE END
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 19th Feb 18, 8:47 AM
    • 5,585 Posts
    • 3,426 Thanks
    Hengus
    to save this going on on forever and ever. This is how it is.

    1. If you want one, get one.
    2. If you don't want one, decline any offer of one.

    THE END
    Originally posted by PLYSU
    It will go on for some time yet I am afraid as this project is costing us £12Bn all of which is going on to our future bills. It is also the subject of an ongoing National Audit Office investigation that is due to report in the summer. The security concerns are very real as significant long term damage could be caused to the Grid if there was, say, a mass cyber hack in your Town. It doesn't follow that just because you say 'No to smart meters' that you will be protected from the consequences of the industry getting this one wrong. Cyber experts are of one voice when it comes to hacking - 'it is not a question of if, it is only a question of when'. A lot of the potential infrastructure risk could be eliminated if remote disconnection was disabled in all of the UK's smart meters.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 19th Feb 18, 11:35 AM
    • 4,514 Posts
    • 11,600 Thanks
    EachPenny
    to save this going on on forever and ever. This is how it is.

    1. If you want one, get one.
    2. If you don't want one, decline any offer of one.

    THE END
    Originally posted by PLYSU
    And what about the people being told they 'must' have one or that all homes will be fitted with a smart meter by 2020? How about 'deemed appointments' where customers are being misled into thinking they have agreed to something they haven't - do you think it is ok for the elderly and vulnerable to be 'tricked' in this way? And what about the claims smart meters save customers money?

    Does the Government and energy companies deliberately misleading consumers not concern all of us, regardless of whether or not we personally want a 'smart' meter?
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 19th Feb 18, 11:57 AM
    • 4,131 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    zeupater
    One wonders why the mainstream suppliers cannot enable smart Eco 7 when Secure Liberty meter suppliers users can do it ( Ovo ,Utilita etc ) and have been doing this for years.
    BG have proved they can do smart 2 rate weekend free tariff they have up and running for 2 years.
    Its completely baffling why they are hanging back
    . i have my own theories that they are afraid of the mayhem it will create from all the hundreds of thousands of Eco 7 meters who are receiving transposed billings from ancient old analogue timer switches and digital meters with clocks well out of time
    Originally posted by House Martin
    Hi

    If they've been installing E7 smart-meters for years then chances are that they are not compliant with SMETS2, possibly not even fully compliant with SMETS1 either ....

    Of course, the energy industry is looking to utilise the HHM (half hourly metering) capabilities of smart-meters to deliver TOU (time of use) tariffs which can be used as both carrot & stick to 'educate' consumers via their pockets (so we all know which makes them more money & the direction our bills will be going!).

    The issue here is that HHM is an inherent part of the SMETS2 standard in order to allow TOU billing, therefore special dual register E7 metering becomes redundant in theory because every compliant smart-meter has the multiple registers which are required, so why have 'special' E7 meters? ... Well, that's pretty straightforward - dedicated E7 circuits for DHW & storage heater circuits!

    Now, that raises an issue .... this is the SMETS2 standard <Link> - have a read & see that it includes dedicated circuit switching through the ESME ALCS functionality & IoT control switching ... it'll not be down to manufacturers to develop their own standards, therefore potentially making their unit non-compliant, so their complete solution will need to be fully ESME /SMETS2 compliant ... however, considering that there's only a couple of hundred fully compliant SMETS2 meters in the whole UK, it's not really something which is high on the priority list at the DCC or any of the suppliers at the moment, they just want to make their comms network & industry interfaces work! ...

    The correct technical solution involves added complexity when installing the smart-meter. Effectively the E7 circuit should be switched using the smart-metering defined IoT or ALCS as mentioned above, so obviously adding time, effort & cost to the implementation process ...

    Priority therefore will be to the 'simple' installations ... but this is a slap in the face to the entire reasoning for the Smart-metering project which is supposed to be addressing energy (electricity) awareness to customers with high electricity usage, which would obviously include those requiring electricity to provide heat ... and to do this as soon as possible! ...

    Ten years into the project, with less than 2 years to run and due to complete mismanagement we have spent £billions on millions of non-compliant meters which need rectification and only have a hand-full of compliant meters being tested in the field to ensure that the network provided by a centralised communication & interface company (which is late and massively over-budget) actually works, a box which is yet to be ticked! ... £12billion & 2020? ... not likely .... .... might as well call it what it is - a failure - and look to come clean on realistic costs & timescales, readdress the project delivery phase, or simply write it off as another complete failure due to lack of defined ownership & accountabilities ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • House Martin
    • By House Martin 19th Feb 18, 12:07 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 1,067 Thanks
    House Martin
    No they don t ! Robert Cheesewright, of Smart Energy GB is an "expert " and is quoted in that link, "smart meters are one of the safest and most secure pieces of technology in your home ".Nick Hunn is not the only "expert " having his twopenworth
    There has nt been any instances of a cyber attack anywhere in the world on a smart meter network but its not stopping YOU getting your usual tinfoil hat on to spread project fear once again as per usual.
    Puerto Rico had a problem with a smart meter fiddle using an optical reader to lower readings which can occur on non smart meters also.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 19th Feb 18, 12:26 PM
    • 5,585 Posts
    • 3,426 Thanks
    Hengus
    No they don t ! Robert Cheesewright, of Smart Energy GB is an "expert " and is quoted in that link, "smart meters are one of the safest and most secure pieces of technology in your home ".Nick Hunn is not the only "expert " having his twopenworth
    There has nt been any instances of a cyber attack anywhere in the world on a smart meter network but its not stopping YOU getting your usual tinfoil hat on to spread project fear once again as per usual.
    Puerto Rico had a problem with a smart meter fiddle using an optical reader to lower readings which can occur on non smart meters also.
    Originally posted by House Martin
    I don't doubt that he is an expert in something but not in cyber security. He is currently the Director of Policy and Communications at Smart Energy GB. Previously, he was the Hd of Smart Metering Implementation Liaison. He has also worked in The Cabinet Secretariat and the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills. He has a a BA in Politics and Philosophy and a Masters Degree in Peace Studies. (Source: Linked In)
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 19th Feb 18, 1:01 PM
    • 4,131 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    zeupater
    No they don t ! Robert Cheesewright, of Smart Energy GB is an "expert " and is quoted in that link, "smart meters are one of the safest and most secure pieces of technology in your home ".Nick Hunn is not the only "expert " having his twopenworth
    There has nt been any instances of a cyber attack anywhere in the world on a smart meter network but its not stopping YOU getting your usual tinfoil hat on to spread project fear once again as per usual.
    Puerto Rico had a problem with a smart meter fiddle using an optical reader to lower readings which can occur on non smart meters also.
    Originally posted by House Martin
    Hi

    How does an education path suited to journalists, politicians & spin doctors and a career to date linked to policy communication make anyone an 'expert' in technology or security issues? ...

    As for smart-meters being being classified as being amongst the most secure technology in a home - absolute rubbish ... by definition of 'technology' in our home, being an openly connected device it would rank somewhere in the bottom decile, probably not even performing very well within that either ...

    There are so many points of potential concern in the DCC offering that it's completely nonsensical to provide inherent functionality which could seriously impair the operation of what is critical national infrastructure ... and that's what's happened no matter what any 'expert' who works as a spin-doctor for the company which is tasked with rolling out the project may say .... just look at their record to date - they're free, they're no cost, it's on time, on budget, SMETS2 coverage & testing stats before any meters have been supplied (let-alone in volume!) ... any vested interests in playing politics here? - long grass? - big pay-cheques? .....

    The last thing that you'd expect a spin doctor communications expert to say is .... 'yes, there's a slim chance that your security concerns are well founded" ... but unless they say that then they're simply wrong, so without coming clean on something so fundamental why trust anything else that they say!?

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Montypython
    • By Montypython 20th Feb 18, 7:29 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 857 Thanks
    Montypython
    I am currently with Eon and have a Smart Meter which was installed when they first started using them a few years ago.

    When my current tariff ends I am going to move to another supplier.

    I know the Smart Meter will not function when I do that but what will still work?

    Will I be able to get the meter readings from the smart meter or will I have to take them manually from the electric and gas meters?

    Will Eon still be responsible for maintaining the house meters, ie I imagine the gas meter will run off a battery so will Eon be responsible for changing that, and would there be a charge for it?

    Thank you in advance.
    I always wanted to give stuff away.
    Jim
    • Michaelw
    • By Michaelw 20th Feb 18, 12:46 PM
    • 139 Posts
    • 44 Thanks
    Michaelw
    Its the new supplier that takes over the meter and is responsible for its maintenance,they may choose to install their own.Some suppliers have taken over the "Secure" brand smart meter.

    Given these are in effect prepayment meters that close supply in the event of a battery failure check the callout times before commiting,thats one of reasons I stayed on prepayment as it offers a four hour callout guarantee in if failure ocours.
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