Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    • 61Posts
    • 20Thanks
    MSE Karl
    Smart Meters
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 17, 5:13 PM
    Smart Meters 31st Oct 17 at 5:13 PM
    Hi!

    This is the discussion thread for the


    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven!!!8217;t already, join the forum to reply.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 09-11-2017 at 2:25 PM.
Page 12
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 5th Jan 18, 2:41 PM
    • 4,690 Posts
    • 12,205 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Do companies receive commission for getting/coercing/forcing a customer to have a smart meter fitted. I am being bombarded by phone calls morning, noon and night almost on a daily basis. All from the same number. I am with Scottish Power. I have spoken to one person so far (usually I am out) and I don't believe they are from Scottish Power as they sounded very aggressive and pretended that I had made an order so they were just phoning to arrange fitting. There was no order made by me. Also it smacked of a scam so I refused to verify my details when asked. They refused to verify my details to me so that I could ascertain if they are genuine or not. In the end there was a large sigh at the end of the phone and they hung up. Still no idea if it was a scam or not!
    Originally posted by Bern64
    There are two ways of dealing with this:-
    1) Make a written complaint to Scottish Power on the basis you have received repeated unwanted calls of a distressing nature from someone claiming to represent them. Explain that the nature of the call led you to believe it was part of a confidence trick (scam) and the person calling was unable to satisfactorily allay your concerns, leaving you feeling vulnerable and concerned. Ask them to confirm in writing whether they, or an agent working on their behalf, has been attempting to contact you in this way. (if possible quote times/dates of call(s) and the number the call came from. State that if it is them or an agent contacting you that you wish them to stop doing so in this way and that you would like compensation for the inconvenience and alarm caused.

    Alternatively,
    2) The next time the same kind of call happens, ask to be put through to the person's supervisor/line manager. Then ask for the address to write to in order to make a formal written complaint about the way in which these calls have been made. Depending on the response you get, either ask for compensation or else consider actually making the complaint as per (1).

    The prospect of having to deal with a complaint and possibly paying out compensation is often sufficient to get companies to modify their behaviour towards you
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Morker
    • By Morker 8th Jan 18, 7:54 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Morker
    Smart Water Meters - am I obliged to get one?
    Hi, A friend of mine has been told by the water company (we're in the Yorkshire Water area) that she has to make an appointment to have a smart meter fitted for her water bills. I've heard that there were issues about energy companies writing to customers implying that they have to have one fitted (when in fact they did not) and wondered if this was similar with the water companies.

    The reasons why she doesn't want one are quite complex, but one of the reasons is the cupboard where the meter is housed contains what she believes to be brown asbestos (it's an ongoing situation that is not yet resolved with the property agent) but she doesn't want the area dismantled for health reasons).

    Has anyone else been told they need to have a water meter? Are they compulsory? Regardless of what the reason is, does my friend have a right to refuse one? Does it make any difference that she is renting (i.e. do the landlords have the final say)?

    Apologies for the list of questions, but am struggling to find any conclusive information on the matter.
    • RRatchet
    • By RRatchet 22nd Jan 18, 9:23 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    RRatchet
    I originally came to this thread as I had a question I wanted to ask, but as it might have been answered already I started reading from the beginning. About page 9 I forgot what the question was by page 12 I'd almost lost the will to live. Maybe this isn't the forum for my type of question.

    Anyway just remembered. Do smart meters work with dual phase? we have 2 meters on the one supply. How far from the meters will the IHD work? The straight line distance between the kitchen and the meters is about 200m passing through 5 thick rubble stone walls (my guess is not bloomin likely). Can a wired link or wireless relays be installed? I'm also guessing that if it was possible it would be at my expense. Mobile signal at the meters is poor and being in a remote location there is nobody else's meter within range.

    I have not been offered a smart meter; don't want one but as we will all probably be forced to have one eventually I want to have an idea of what is possible.

    Reason for not wanting one:

    1. Every electrical appliance has it's own electrical signature: I don't want my electricity supplier to know what I have and be able to sell on that data.
    2. I'm suspicious of the reliability of smart meters. A neighbour had a new electronic meter (admittedly not smart) installed that "leaked". It took a good while for their supplier to admit there was a problem and replace it.
    3. Dislike the additional control that it gives the electricity company. If you're in dispute with a supplier it's much easier/cheaper for them to press a button in an office than to physically gain entry. If something is easier & cheaper to do it'll be done more quickly; hell it ould even be automated to remove the human element of discretion " computer says no".
    4. Although there is truth in saying "if you don't measure it you can't manage it" if I was that bothered I could take manual readings or install my own measuring equipment. I don't believe the cost saving claims well not for me personally anyway.
    5. My mechanical ones serve me just fine. We pay the whole ammount quarterly by DD, & the meters are read manually approx every 2 years, by a manny.


    Phew, anyway the telly is now more interesting, so I'm off.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 22nd Jan 18, 10:03 PM
    • 4,132 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    zeupater
    ... How far from the meters will the IHD work? The straight line distance between the kitchen and the meters is about 200m passing through 5 thick rubble stone walls (my guess is not bloomin likely) ...
    Originally posted by RRatchet
    Hi

    200m ... !

    I take it that the meters are in an outbuilding? ... some people are reporting IHD comms problems at 20feet!

    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 22nd Jan 18, 11:24 PM
    • 7,302 Posts
    • 3,755 Thanks
    buglawton
    To this day I'm still baffled as to why smart meters can't use home wifi as an alternative to a mobile signal.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 23rd Jan 18, 6:42 AM
    • 1,558 Posts
    • 2,007 Thanks
    badmemory
    Maybe you haven't been offered one because they know it wouldn't work. No that can't be right as it would show a degree of competence.
    Last edited by badmemory; 23-01-2018 at 7:22 AM.
    • thorganby
    • By thorganby 23rd Jan 18, 9:18 AM
    • 86 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    thorganby
    To this day I'm still baffled as to why smart meters can't use home wifi as an alternative to a mobile signal.
    Originally posted by buglawton
    Simply because it does not meet the necessary security standards. WiFi was cracked many years ago and is basically a soft encryption that is easily defeated by anyone with access to the net.
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 23rd Jan 18, 7:20 PM
    • 7,302 Posts
    • 3,755 Thanks
    buglawton
    Wifi on it's own can have security holes, and the industry fear presumably is that the consumer can modify their own router to do an equivalent of 'bypassing the meter'. However it's fairly trivial for the smart meters firmware to VPN to phone home. That'll equal or exceed any GSM/GPRS security. Truth must be that the industry just doesn't want to make the appropriate investment in security.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 23rd Jan 18, 7:56 PM
    • 3,774 Posts
    • 5,184 Thanks
    Nick_C
    To this day I'm still baffled as to why smart meters can't use home wifi as an alternative to a mobile signal.
    Originally posted by buglawton
    Would you really want your electricity supplier to have access to a device that is connected to your home network?
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 23rd Jan 18, 8:14 PM
    • 5,604 Posts
    • 3,433 Thanks
    Hengus
    To this day I'm still baffled as to why smart meters can't use home wifi as an alternative to a mobile signal.
    Originally posted by buglawton
    The Govt has invested £Ms into smart meter security. A mass hack that takes out 100s of meters in a given area could cause catastrophic damage to the Grid. Moreover, it is unlikely that any firmware fix could be rolled out quickly as smart meters are only designed to send out small bursts of data to protect battery life. As you can see from this link, the Government has involved GCHQ in the security process:

    https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/articles/smart-security-behind-gb-smart-metering-system
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 23rd Jan 18, 11:40 PM
    • 7,302 Posts
    • 3,755 Thanks
    buglawton
    Would you really want your electricity supplier to have access to a device that is connected to your home network?
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Consumers are eagerly buying IOT products, many connected with energy saving, that do exactly that.
    • ketelsuw
    • By ketelsuw 24th Jan 18, 7:30 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    ketelsuw
    Not only 'dumb' but blank
    I switched from British Gas to Eon, ie the opposite of what CJM6 did. The smart meter, installed by BG, not only cannot transmit usage etc to Eon and maybe has lost some functionalities. It is completely blank and I have no idea what my consumption is. - Have to say, while I am all supportive to the smart meter idea, it has been poorly implemented.
    • erudioed
    • By erudioed 31st Jan 18, 7:18 AM
    • 645 Posts
    • 932 Thanks
    erudioed
    Maybe i am repeating whats already been said, and if so, i am sorry for that. Anyone considering getting a smart meter should check out the documentary called Take Back Your Power about the smart meter roll out in the USA. Highlights include it increasing your bills by a third and having no way to check your usage against that increase, turning your house into a pseudo microwave oven through continual micro bursts to the provider and aggressive tactics to make you install one (i think Eon have just shown that one to be true). Like with fracking and the documentary Gasland, it is rather amazing these things have been accepted by the UK Gov when the voices about the dangers/results already exist but are not being considered at policy level. In fact with fracking, the warnings in the film Gasland were being stated as having been solved upon the targetting of the UK. The reality is though that nothing has changed that will stop any area with such a well being uninhabitable after the operation has started.
    Anyway, for this thread, anyone considering getting a smart meter should check out that the documentary before making a final decision, and anyone with one already in their home should give it a viewing to make sure they are happy with having one in their house (and endangering their neighbours if the meter is positioned accordingly).
    Last edited by erudioed; 31-01-2018 at 7:20 AM.
    • pineapple
    • By pineapple 31st Jan 18, 7:55 AM
    • 6,160 Posts
    • 29,561 Thanks
    pineapple
    I think ultimately most people will end up with smart meters though I will hang out to the bitter end on this one.
    Technology is racing ahead. The cashless future is coming, transport that drives itself etc etc... People happily wave their smart phones around to pay for something - what's not to love? Most don't care or understand where this is heading. We get more and more deskilled with each generation. Pretty soon we will hardly have to engage our brains (you can already see it in young sales assistants who can't do a simple sum if the computer breaks down) and all the power will be elsewhere. Sorry, rant over!
    Last edited by pineapple; 31-01-2018 at 8:02 AM.
    • erudioed
    • By erudioed 31st Jan 18, 9:57 AM
    • 645 Posts
    • 932 Thanks
    erudioed
    I hear you pineapple. I dont think the future coming should mean accepting unproven and unsafe technologies that ONLY work in the favour of big buisnesses, helping them cut staff in ever more ingenious ways and increase prices in ever increasingly covert ways. Then they have the audacity to sell it as being of benefit to the consumer. I think we should be worried only a few people even have a problem or question this technology.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 31st Jan 18, 10:56 AM
    • 5,604 Posts
    • 3,433 Thanks
    Hengus
    I hear you pineapple. I dont think the future coming should mean accepting unproven and unsafe technologies that ONLY work in the favour of big buisnesses, helping them cut staff in ever more ingenious ways and increase prices in ever increasingly covert ways. Then they have the audacity to sell it as being of benefit to the consumer. I think we should be worried only a few people even have a problem or question this technology.
    Originally posted by erudioed
    You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I agree that the smart meter rollout programme has been a disaster of the Government’s - not the suppliers - own making. That said, domestic smart meters are but a small part of the need to balance energy supply with demand negating the need for us all to pay for standby power on a ‘just in case’ basis. I suggest that you Google ‘Smart Grid’ to see what other benefits a Smart Grid will bring including, for example, identifying potential faults before they lead to a supply failure.

    The technology behind smart metering is sound (and safe) and it has been introduced successfully in a number of other countries.

    As far as change is concerned, I am sure that many people were worried about the Industrial Revolution. Their fears were never realised. People adapt to change.

    Will smart meters become mandatory? My view is ‘yes they will’. It only requires a line in a future manifesto and an enabling Law.
    • erudioed
    • By erudioed 31st Jan 18, 11:54 AM
    • 645 Posts
    • 932 Thanks
    erudioed
    The technology behind smart metering is sound (and safe) and it has been introduced successfully in a number of other countries.
    Originally posted by Hengus

    Sure, opinions are what makes the world spin! And i understand your notions of the positives. My opinion has nothing to do with fear of change but of change today being a continual flouting of ideas we used to hold dear, such as breathing clean air, drinking clean water etc, none of which exist today and in fact are getting increasingly more toxic. Who can argue for a change for the better (when it appears)? My argument isnt with the rather superficial government/companies fault loop these companies are happy for you to air to distract you from the real issues but of whether the technology/reality is what it is stated to be.
    I am sure you would say it has been successfully introduced in the USA. OK, then watch that documentary i mentioned which goes into the whole issue in much more depth (based on the US experience) than anything you will have seen before and see what you think after watching it. Having a fuller picture can only help back up or maybe change your opinion on the information you have to hand. And most of the issues the doc raises are more fundamentally important issues that who is to blame.

    In fact, here is the link to the film if you find time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uMfx-FsJiE
    Last edited by erudioed; 31-01-2018 at 4:39 PM.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 31st Jan 18, 12:42 PM
    • 4,132 Posts
    • 5,350 Thanks
    zeupater
    ... The technology behind smart metering is sound (and safe) and it has been introduced successfully in a number of other countries.

    As far as change is concerned, I am sure that many people were worried about the Industrial Revolution. Their fears were never realised. People adapt to change.

    Will smart meters become mandatory? My view is ‘yes they will’. It only requires a line in a future manifesto and an enabling Law.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Hi

    My view is that the government have been bounced into the project from two fronts, the EU & the energy sector, but risking being classed a wearer of Faraday cage foil-hats, I'd be prepared to go a step further and introduce the concept of energy sector lobbying in Brussels on environmental grounds, then in Westminster on project & technical grounds as being the root cause of the mess we find ourselves in!

    I have no problem with the technology, other than the fact that it likely wont work where we are, it's purely the cost of attempting to 'bulldoze' a project through at great expense when it could have been managed much more successfully at a fraction of the cost, with both little impact on the overall project timescale and a faster delivery of project goals - after-all, the project goal is environmental, not an installation count ...

    Adapting to change? ... change happens for a reason - if that change provides a benefit, it survives, if not it soon fades ... after-all that's what natural selection describes. In terms of smart-metering, the technology is still being 'sold' on a basis which may have been valid 10-15 years ago, but the world has moved on from a centralised electricity generation model to one which is fast becoming distributed, even down to individual properties ... I've yet to see a valid argument of how what is effectively a 20th century technology centralised management concept operates within the kind of decentralised energy generation infrastructure which is developing in the 21st century ...

    Mandatory Smart-meters .... well as mentioned earlier, even if they are, there will be pockets of properties where the technology isn't going to work without wasting ridiculous sums on the DCC comms infrastructure ( Smart-meter history & comms description here ) ... but I do agree that the definitions of smart, advanced & dumb meters will eventually merge, thus removing the option of consumer refusal. Hopefully, by that time, Ofgem will have a better understanding of how the energy sector are leveraging smart-meter capabilities for the purpose of margin improvement and will be monitoring and curtailing any 'unnecessary' practices.

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 31st Jan 18, 1:51 PM
    • 5,604 Posts
    • 3,433 Thanks
    Hengus
    Smart Meters - nothing to worry about here then:

    www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42885211

    Then again:

    Smart DCC Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Capita plc

    Of more concern is that Capita also handles my pension payments.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 31st Jan 18, 2:27 PM
    • 3,774 Posts
    • 5,184 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Smart Meters - nothing to worry about here then:

    www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42885211

    Then again:

    Smart DCC Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Capita plc

    Of more concern is that Capita also handles my pension payments.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Isn't there? That's good to know!

    If you can't be bothered summarising the story you are referring to, then I can't be bothered following the link.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

9Posts Today

3,353Users online

Martin's Twitter