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  • FIRST POST
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 29th Oct 17, 1:15 PM
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    The Deep
    Matrimonial Home Rights Order
    • #1
    • 29th Oct 17, 1:15 PM
    Matrimonial Home Rights Order 29th Oct 17 at 1:15 PM
    Two days before my offer on a house was accepted in mid August, the vendor's wife placed a charge on the title deeds. The vendor would have been informed of this within five days by the Land Registry but never informed me. I only learned of this when I received a copy of the Register of Title last Friday.

    The vendor completed a property information form on 5th October which I also received last Friday in which he declared that no-one had a claim over the property.

    I have since spent over 1200 on surveys, searches, etc. this month which I would not have done if the vendor had informed me in a timely manner of this charge.

    I have asked my solicitor to make enquiries as to the vendor's wife's intentions, but foresee delays in completion and the possibility of my buyer withdrawing.

    Has anyone else been in a similar situation?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
Page 1
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 29th Oct 17, 1:20 PM
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    Thrugelmir
    • #2
    • 29th Oct 17, 1:20 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Oct 17, 1:20 PM
    Let your solicitor do their job. Little point in worrying about something which may not be an issue.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 29th Oct 17, 1:35 PM
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    G_M
    • #3
    • 29th Oct 17, 1:35 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Oct 17, 1:35 PM
    Two days before my offer on a house was accepted in mid August, the vendor's wife placed a charge

    I received a copy of the Register of Title last Friday.

    The vendor completed a property information form on 5th October which I also received last Friday in which he declared that no-one had a claim over the property.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    So in August it is likely neither you nor the vendor knew of the wife's action.

    Presumably that is when you stared incurring your costs: instructing your solicitor and surveyor and applying for your mortgage.

    On 5th October the vendor completed the PIF. At issue is whether he knew, at that time, of his wife's action. He may or may not.

    * If he did, he lied, and you may have cause for a claim for any costs you incurred after that date (I suspect most of your costs had alreay been incurred by then).

    * If he did not, then he responded on the PIF to the best of his knowledge - which is always the case.

    * so: can you prove he knew?

    Last Friday your solicitor made you aware of the issue, so he was doing the job you are paying him to do.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 29th Oct 17, 2:03 PM
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    The Deep
    • #4
    • 29th Oct 17, 2:03 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Oct 17, 2:03 PM
    So Thuglemir your advise is to stick my head in the sand. Thank you, but if you do not mind I wall pass..


    GM thank you for your reply. Legally the vendor must be informed the Land registry within five days of the order being made. I do not know whether he was aware of his wife's intentions before this. I was only made aware of it last week.


    I arranged a survey for 16 October and paid the search fees a few days before that date. Had the TA6 been sent to me as soon as it had been signed I would not have paid for either.


    I am not saying he lied, (even if I suspect he did), he could have made a simple error, but they makes little difference, if he made an error completing the TA6, he is still legally liable for his answers.


    I am no stranger to the SCC and that aspect of the transaction is not my main concern, my main worry is that this delays the move and I lose my buyer.


    If this has happened to anyone here I would like to hear how it panned out.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Dec 17, 7:42 PM
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    The Deep
    • #5
    • 14th Dec 17, 7:42 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Dec 17, 7:42 PM
    The vendor knew about the HRN on 22nd August. I am taking him to SCC for misrepresentation. He wants to sue me for stress and possibly for breach of contract.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Dec 17, 7:59 PM
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    G_M
    • #6
    • 14th Dec 17, 7:59 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Dec 17, 7:59 PM
    The vendor knew about the HRN on 22nd August. I am taking him to SCC for misrepresentation. He wants to sue me for stress and possibly for breach of contract.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Let us know how you get on. What are you claiming? All your costs related to the purchase? Or those costs incurred after the date of the PIF? Or something else?

    His counter-claim for stress will achive nothing. Can't comment on the breach of contract as it's not clear from what you've said what contract is involved or what he is claiming. Did you actually exchange contracts and then fail to Complete?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
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    The Deep
    • #7
    • 7th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Jan 18, 10:54 AM
    Update

    I have issued a claim under the tort of negligence for 1200 for a structural survey and local searches. All costs were incurred some six weeks after the Land Registry informed him of Home Rights Notice..

    He is counter claiming 1500 for Estate Agents' fees, legal expenses, and distress, presumably under Contract Law, but there are no contracts. For a dentist, he seems remarkably ignorant of the Law.

    I have asked for his counter-claim to be struck out. I am also seriously considering asking for unreasonable conduct, (CPR27.14(2)(g), costs of several hundred more pounds for his hubris.

    He has picked the wrong marine.
    Last edited by The Deep; 07-01-2018 at 4:46 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 7th Jan 18, 11:08 AM
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    deannatrois
    • #8
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:08 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:08 AM
    And you have now lost any chance of buying this house. You could have still bought the house as it was.., you don't seem to have waited to see what the implications of the charge actually would be on the sale.

    Might win the battle, definitely lost the war.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 7th Jan 18, 11:40 AM
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    unforeseen
    • #9
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:40 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Jan 18, 11:40 AM
    Why would a dentist beany more conversant in law than your average person if ithe lw in question is not within his occupational area
    • nobblyned
    • By nobblyned 7th Jan 18, 12:19 PM
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    nobblyned
    Did you ever find out if the charge going to be paid from the proceeds of the sale, or just go straight for the nuclear option?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Jan 18, 12:43 PM
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    G_M
    Update

    I have issued a claim under the tort of negligence for 1200 .......

    For a dentist, he seems remarkably ignorant of the Law.

    .
    Originally posted by The Deep
    What bemuses me is why you are here. What makes you think that random weirdos on the internet like us would know more than a dentist?

    And given you appear confidant and clued-up yourself, in what way do you think random weirdos on the internet like us could assist you?

    Let us know how you get on though.
    • patman99
    • By patman99 7th Jan 18, 1:01 PM
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    patman99
    The Deep only asked whether anyone else has had the same issue.
    Never Knowingly Understood.

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    • missprice
    • By missprice 7th Jan 18, 1:29 PM
    • 3,344 Posts
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    missprice
    Update. For a dentist, he seems remarkably ignorant of the Law.


    He has picked the wrong marine.
    Originally posted by The Deep

    Umm he is a dentist not a solicitor?
    If you had said for a solicitor he seems remarkably
    Ignorant of the law, then yeah it's a great point. But people who rummage around in one's mouth, nah.

    And just because someone put a charge on a house doesn't mean you are any worse off, or that it will take eons longer to buy.
    Unless there is more to this?
    63 mortgage payments to go.

    Zero wins 2016 !!!128549;
    • Margot123
    • By Margot123 7th Jan 18, 1:43 PM
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    Margot123
    The Deep only asked whether anyone else has had the same issue.
    Originally posted by patman99
    Phew, I was wondering when someone else would notice what the OP was actually asking in the first place.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Jan 18, 4:56 PM
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    The Deep
    Dean, you seem unfamiliar with HRNs, I could not have bought the house. His wife has legally forbidden that. As a consequence I have had to find another house.

    Unforeseen, a dentist spends up to seven years learning his profession before qualifying. During that time they learn how to research, prioritise, evaluate evidence, absorb large amounts of information, and chronicle their conclusions

    I would expect anyone wishing to embark on a court case to familiarise themselves with the basics of relevant law beforehand, he has not done so. He is claiming large sums of money for breach of a non-existent contract.

    Miss Price, see above. Of course I am worse off, he lied to me and because of this I am 1200, and several hours of my time, worse off.

    Margot/Patman, well spotted.
    Last edited by The Deep; 07-01-2018 at 5:17 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th Jan 18, 4:57 PM
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    G_M
    Phew, I was wondering when someone else would notice what the OP was actually asking in the first place.
    Originally posted by Margot123
    Ah. Sorry.

    The answer is 'Yes'.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 7th Jan 18, 6:52 PM
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    Thrugelmir
    He is counter claiming 1500 for Estate Agents' fees, legal expenses, and distress, presumably under Contract Law, but there are no contracts. For a dentist, he seems remarkably ignorant of the Law.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Perhaps your vendor sought legal advice as well. As a Marine I'm sure that you aren't trained to make presumptions.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • es5595
    • By es5595 7th Jan 18, 7:25 PM
    • 79 Posts
    • 93 Thanks
    es5595
    Did you ever find out if the charge going to be paid from the proceeds of the sale, or just go straight for the nuclear option?
    Originally posted by nobblyned
    Since the original post was over two month ago, I imagine the other options have been considered. The OP is now returning to keep his thread updated in case a similar scenario befalls someone else.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Jan 18, 7:42 PM
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    The Deep
    Nobby is talking about another thread. It goes to the Ombudsman next week, I am claiming 500 for male fides.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 7th Jan 18, 10:20 PM
    • 5,611 Posts
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    iammumtoone
    This is a classic example of why threads never get updated with the final outcome.

    In this case the OP seems to be trying to update in case it helps someone in future. but not getting much back for their efforts only extra hassle.

    I can understand why many do not bother to update which is a shame.
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