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  • FIRST POST
    • angela2011
    • By angela2011 26th Oct 17, 5:37 PM
    • 455Posts
    • 132Thanks
    angela2011
    bitcoin trading.
    • #1
    • 26th Oct 17, 5:37 PM
    bitcoin trading. 26th Oct 17 at 5:37 PM
    Thinking of investing some cash in to trade in bitcoins. Been looking at cryptoallday and was wondering if anyone had used them before.

    Any advice would be great...

    TIA...
Page 6
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 27th Dec 17, 11:32 PM
    • 165 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    My router seems to be made of plastic. I don't think I've ever come across one made of onions. Is that the sort of thing you can buy with bitcoins?
    • 4 Pete's Sake
    • By 4 Pete's Sake 27th Dec 17, 11:59 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    4 Pete's Sake
    Whether it be a speculative Share or Bitcoin, when the herd arrive, sensible people take advantage of the spike that this causes and realise their profits. This year the herd have arrived at Bitcoin and the herd are in the main young gamblers who only see a "Get rich quick" scheme. The wise will get out with their profits, the foolish will hold and make big losses. Those who got spiked at $19.5K look like making some very big losses.
    IF THIS POST HAS BEEN HELPFUL - PLEASE CLICK ON THANKS
    • adindas
    • By adindas 28th Dec 17, 1:07 AM
    • 3,559 Posts
    • 2,207 Thanks
    adindas
    I don't really get bitcoin. It's difficult to buy and sell, or so it seems; you need to set up some sort of online wallet account or a special hard drive, you need to keep a record of the security keys, there are large spreads, and its apparent value drops and rises by as much as 20% in a single day. Also, most shops don't seem to accept it as a form of payment. I'm baffled by its meteoric rise in price and popularity.
    Originally posted by ivormonee
    If you want to learn how to buy BTC you could start reading it from here:
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-to-buy-bitcoin-using-coinbase-2017-2/#i-happen-to-be-one-of-the-many-who-have-never-traded-bitcoin-before-theres-a-certain-level-of-wariness-in-buying-into-the-cryptocurrency-world-3

    and here
    https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/

    There are various type of wallets available:
    https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/wallets/

    But many people recommend to use Hardware wallets such as
    Ledger Nano S (LNS), Trezor, KeepKey, etc
    The cheapest one is Ledger Nano S
    https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/wallets/#hardware-wallets

    Here is the explanatin of LNS
    https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/wallets/ledger-nano-s/

    My router seems to be made of plastic. I don't think I've ever come across one made of onions. Is that the sort of thing you can buy with bitcoins?
    Originally posted by ivormonee
    You can not buy something which does not exist. So nope, you can not buy router made of onions.

    But you will never know, someday you might be able to buy metallic router using BTC in many shops.
    Last edited by adindas; 28-12-2017 at 1:18 AM.
    • BananaRepublic
    • By BananaRepublic 28th Dec 17, 8:24 AM
    • 1,192 Posts
    • 874 Thanks
    BananaRepublic
    Why have you quoted my post and started talking about tor and the dark web? I haven't said anything about either of those things, nor do I use them, though I am generally supportive of the principle of onion routers. However, decentralised privacy against snooping by our political masters and their lackeys at GCHQ is not a subject for the savings section of the board.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    You talking to me?

    My comments were relevant because you canít realistically use this stuff as currency, the vast majority of buyers being speculators. The only people who need to use it are dark web users. As to GCHQ, thatís just paranoid nonsense.

    Incidentally most Bitcoin buyers are said to be in the Far East where it is booming as a way to invest money.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 28th Dec 17, 10:04 AM
    • 3,559 Posts
    • 2,207 Thanks
    adindas
    You talking to me?
    My comments were relevant because you can!!!8217;t realistically use this stuff as currency, the vast majority of buyers being speculators. The only people who need to use it are dark web users.
    Originally posted by BananaRepublic
    Digital currency like BTC can!!!8217;t be realistically used like like a normal currency but their acceptance rate is increasing. You will never know what will happen in the next few decades. The demand is not just coming just from speculators because there is always demand coming from darkweb, money launderers. This currency fit for their purpose which can not be replaced by traditional currency.

    Also currently over 100,000 merchants have accepted it.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/07/heres-how-you-can-and-cant-spend-bitcoin.html

    "Over 100,000 merchants worldwide accept bitcoin. Notable ones include Microsoft and Expedia, as well as the online electronics retailer Newegg.

    Considering that bitcoin is a digital currency, it's more rare for actual stores to accept it as a payment method. But, as CoinDesk points out, some business are beginning to, such as REEDS Jewelers, which has over 60 retail locations in eastern U.S
    ."
    Last edited by adindas; 28-12-2017 at 11:29 AM.
    • 4 Pete's Sake
    • By 4 Pete's Sake 28th Dec 17, 11:44 AM
    • 270 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    4 Pete's Sake
    It is probably helpful to view the 1 year chart showing Bitcoin's value. You can do this as https://www.coindesk.com/price/ or on many other sites. Viewing the 1 year chart helps to appreciate the extent of the recent spike in Bitcoin's value.
    IF THIS POST HAS BEEN HELPFUL - PLEASE CLICK ON THANKS
    • planteria
    • By planteria 30th Dec 17, 7:12 PM
    • 5,000 Posts
    • 1,110 Thanks
    planteria
    and arguably illustrates that Bitcoin is 'good value' now [helmet on].
    • 4 Pete's Sake
    • By 4 Pete's Sake 13th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    4 Pete's Sake
    Bitcoin's competitors.
    Bitcoin now appears to be stagnating as other Cryptocurrencies are being explored. Ethereum now seems to be the one with a rocket under it. Does anyone here actually invest in either of these?
    Price now of the 2 currencies:
    Bitcoin - $14168
    Ethereum - $1406
    Therefore Bitcoin is currently worth 10 times more than Ethereum. I've no idea what their values will be at the end of this year but I'm sure the Bitcoin will not be as much as 10 times the value of Etherium, perhaps more like 5 times???
    IF THIS POST HAS BEEN HELPFUL - PLEASE CLICK ON THANKS
    • Bonnie151
    • By Bonnie151 13th Jan 18, 10:19 PM
    • 273 Posts
    • 16,014 Thanks
    Bonnie151
    Bitcoin now appears to be stagnating as other Cryptocurrencies are being explored. Ethereum now seems to be the one with a rocket under it. Does anyone here actually invest in either of these?
    Originally posted by 4 Pete's Sake
    I own (I refuse to call it investing) Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin and a bit of Doge.
    Hmmmm, need new siggie
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 13th Jan 18, 10:26 PM
    • 165 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    Bitcoin - $14168
    Ethereum - $1406
    Therefore Bitcoin is currently worth 10 times more than Ethereum.
    Originally posted by 4 Pete's Sake
    I don't think worth (or value) can be measured by looking at the price of an individual item, such as a coin in this case. If there are twenty times more Etherium in circulation then that would make it twice as valuable as Bitcoin - you need to, as a starting point, look at the market capitalisation of the two coins to begin making a like-for-like comparison.

    The actual market caps on these are: Bitcoin $241t and Etherium $138t, so Bitcoin is valued at nearly twice as much as Etherium using this metric.

    Then there are other factors such as how many coins can be "mined" and indeed the business related information of the two coins.
    • planteria
    • By planteria 14th Jan 18, 10:33 AM
    • 5,000 Posts
    • 1,110 Thanks
    planteria
    Price now of the 2 currencies:
    Bitcoin - $14168
    Ethereum - $1406
    Originally posted by 4 Pete's Sake
    i was looking to buy some Ethereum and couldn't get set up quickly enough.. they were c$685 then, and i had a plan in mind
    • adindas
    • By adindas 14th Jan 18, 11:55 AM
    • 3,559 Posts
    • 2,207 Thanks
    adindas
    My conclusion from small resarch on YouTube, the best way to save your CC is to use Hardware Wallet Ledger Nano S. Because it matches the performance of Trezor (its predecessor) but you could get it at a lower price. During Black Friday amazon used to sell it for around £63 while Trezor it is around £90 or more.

    I fully believe that those who are buying CC and doing their own deskwork fully aware that they are speculating instead of investing, therefore fully aware about the risk associated with it. So please no comment on the risk.

    Has anyone found a better value to save your CC ??

    thanks
    Last edited by adindas; 14-01-2018 at 12:01 PM.
    • BananaRepublic
    • By BananaRepublic 14th Jan 18, 12:15 PM
    • 1,192 Posts
    • 874 Thanks
    BananaRepublic
    I own (I refuse to call it investing) Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin and a bit of Doge.
    Originally posted by Bonnie151
    Quite right, itís not investing, itís speculating.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 14th Jan 18, 12:54 PM
    • 3,559 Posts
    • 2,207 Thanks
    adindas
    CC has value
    BTC definitely has value. The value comes from:

    1. How the Dark web & Money Launderer value the BTC anonymity and thus prepare to pay the premium price over traditional currency. So as long long as these group keep buying the CC there is always be a demand.

    2. The value comes from efficiency over the traditional currency. No control from a country central bank, fewer middle man, etc.
    • Aegis
    • By Aegis 14th Jan 18, 1:09 PM
    • 4,918 Posts
    • 3,137 Thanks
    Aegis
    BTC definitely has value. The value comes from:

    1. How the Dark web & Money Launderer value the BTC anonymity and thus prepare to pay the premium price over traditional currency. So as long long as these group keep buying the CC there is always be a demand.

    2. The value comes from efficiency over the traditional currency. No control from a country central bank, fewer middle man, etc.
    Originally posted by adindas
    I don't know how much value support comes from criminality, but I wouldn't like to invest in an asset simply because its value was propped up by criminals. That strikes me as both highly immoral and extremely dangerous given how often laws are brought in to counter criminal behaviour.

    As to the second point, from what I've seen the bitcoin network is far less efficient than normal currency. Comparing it to sterling:
    • Average clearing time: Same day (usually instant) for most sterling transfers, 1.6 day average for most bitcoin transactions (with apparently about a 30% failure rate at the moment?).
    • Payment methods: In sterling I can use credit and debit cards, physical cash, cheques or bank transfers. With bitcoin, it's pretty much just the transfer option.
    • Actually spending it: With sterling, using the payment methods above, I can pretty much buy anything I like from any retailer in the UK and most internationally, albeit subject to spot currency conversion costs (which I mitigate by using prepaid cards in that currency). Spending bitcoin means either transferring it into sterling and then spending sterling or finding a retailer that actually accepts bitcoin and transferring to them.
    • Holding it: With sterling I have bank accounts which I can access from anywhere and which are subject to a statutory compensation scheme in the event of loss. With bitcoin, I have to maintain a private key somewhere, and if I lose that I lose everything. If bitcoin is stolen from an exchange I'm using, I lose everything. If someone obtains my key somehow, I lose everything.
    There's just no competition. Sterling beats bitcoin hands down in terms of efficiency.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 14th Jan 18, 1:45 PM
    • 3,559 Posts
    • 2,207 Thanks
    adindas
    I don't know how much value support comes from criminality, but I wouldn't like to invest in an asset simply because its value was propped up by criminals. That strikes me as both highly immoral and extremely dangerous given how often laws are brought in to counter criminal behaviour.

    As to the second point, from what I've seen the bitcoin network is far less efficient than normal currency. Comparing it to sterling:
    • Average clearing time: Same day (usually instant) for most sterling transfers, 1.6 day average for most bitcoin transactions (with apparently about a 30% failure rate at the moment?).
    • Payment methods: In sterling I can use credit and debit cards, physical cash, cheques or bank transfers. With bitcoin, it's pretty much just the transfer option.
    • Actually spending it: With sterling, using the payment methods above, I can pretty much buy anything I like from any retailer in the UK and most internationally, albeit subject to spot currency conversion costs (which I mitigate by using prepaid cards in that currency). Spending bitcoin means either transferring it into sterling and then spending sterling or finding a retailer that actually accepts bitcoin and transferring to them.
    • Holding it: With sterling I have bank accounts which I can access from anywhere and which are subject to a statutory compensation scheme in the event of loss. With bitcoin, I have to maintain a private key somewhere, and if I lose that I lose everything. If bitcoin is stolen from an exchange I'm using, I lose everything. If someone obtains my key somehow, I lose everything.
    There's just no competition. Sterling beats bitcoin hands down in terms of efficiency.
    Originally posted by Aegis
    Keep in mind buying CC is not illegal here in the UK. So tere is not any illegal activity here.

    Regarding efficiancy, this is because their popularity and acceptability has not reached the same level with traditional.

    At the moment currently over 100,000 merchants have accepted it. But keep increasing.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/07/heres-how-you-can-and-cant-spend-bitcoin.html

    "Over 100,000 merchants worldwide accept bitcoin. Notable ones include Microsoft and Expedia, as well as the online electronics retailer Newegg.

    Considering that bitcoin is a digital currency, it's more rare for actual stores to accept it as a payment method. But, as CoinDesk points out, some business are beginning to, such as REEDS Jewelers, which has over 60 retail locations in eastern U.S
    ."
    Last edited by adindas; 14-01-2018 at 1:47 PM.
    • pennystretcher
    • By pennystretcher 14th Jan 18, 2:36 PM
    • 389 Posts
    • 1,449 Thanks
    pennystretcher
    Worth reading what Warren Buffett said about bitcoin. (News articles dated this week) I'm tempted, but hesitant as there seem to be so many indicators that a crash is possible. I wish I was one of the lucky ones who bought some a few years' back
    Mortgage free
    • adindas
    • By adindas 14th Jan 18, 3:43 PM
    • 3,559 Posts
    • 2,207 Thanks
    adindas
    Worth reading what Warren Buffett said about bitcoin. (News articles dated this week) I'm tempted, but hesitant as there seem to be so many indicators that a crash is possible. I wish I was one of the lucky ones who bought some a few years' back
    Originally posted by pennystretcher
    There are a lot of Vidoes on you tube regarding what the people like, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Richard Branson, Elon Musk are saying about Crypto Currency.

    About the probability of bubble burst / crash will hapen at some point in the future, well any person who is speculating in CC should already aware about this. Otherwise they should not get involved in CC from the first instance.

    Even in business bubble burst / crash did happen. Remember about Dot-Com bubble burst around 1997 - 2001. If it did happen in business which arguably have more value than CC let alone CC it self.
    • sstjc
    • By sstjc 15th Jan 18, 7:41 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    sstjc
    I decided you got to be in it to win it... or lose of course.
    I'm keeping a record on my blog https://ineptinvestor.blogspot.co.uk/
    Theres a lot of very good but conflicting info on this thread so I decided the only way is to give it a go. Be interesting to see if Ethereum takes a bumpy ride south like Bitcoin and Litecoin or keeps on climbing. I'm holding back on it at the moment because I think it will drop.... but then again :-D
    • 4 Pete's Sake
    • By 4 Pete's Sake 16th Jan 18, 12:08 PM
    • 270 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    4 Pete's Sake
    I apologise for using the term "invest" in the same sentence as a CC. It is off course a complete gamble and just like the dotcom boom it is a bubble that already seems to have an unrepairable puncture. Both ETH and BIT down another 10% today even on high volume.
    BIT - $12200
    ETH - $1150
    IF THIS POST HAS BEEN HELPFUL - PLEASE CLICK ON THANKS
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