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  • FIRST POST
    • angela2011
    • By angela2011 26th Oct 17, 5:37 PM
    • 458Posts
    • 135Thanks
    angela2011
    bitcoin trading.
    • #1
    • 26th Oct 17, 5:37 PM
    bitcoin trading. 26th Oct 17 at 5:37 PM
    Thinking of investing some cash in to trade in bitcoins. Been looking at cryptoallday and was wondering if anyone had used them before.

    Any advice would be great...

    TIA...
Page 17
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 26th Jun 18, 9:48 AM
    • 4,995 Posts
    • 8,075 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Wise man say: as long as people are chasing rainbows the clever people will still make money in rainbow-chasing running shoes and anti-leprechaun spray.
    • cajef
    • By cajef 17th Jul 18, 2:51 PM
    • 4,874 Posts
    • 3,934 Thanks
    cajef
    Never a good idea to fully quote spam, I would edit your post and delete the spammy bit and put xxxxxxxxxxxx so it does not remain on the forum.
    Last edited by cajef; 17-07-2018 at 2:55 PM.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
    • msallen
    • By msallen 17th Jul 18, 3:00 PM
    • 926 Posts
    • 1,077 Thanks
    msallen
    Never a good idea to fully quote spam, I would edit your post and delete the spammy bit and put xxxxxxxxxxxx so it does not remain on the forum.
    Originally posted by cajef
    I disagree. Now when the original post is deleted but someone searches for the name of the spamming company, rather than finding nothing here, they find evidence of their "undesirable marketing practises". i.e. a negative result rather than a neutral one.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 17th Jul 18, 3:37 PM
    • 8,311 Posts
    • 15,203 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    I disagree. Now when the original post is deleted but someone searches for the name of the spamming company, rather than finding nothing here, they find evidence of their "undesirable marketing practises". i.e. a negative result rather than a neutral one.
    Originally posted by msallen
    I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that approach of preserving the spam's name for posterity.

    The problem is that most people using search engines do not follow the links to read every corner of the internet where the name comes up... so they would not follow through to this site and find that evidence that the company in question indulged in a bit of junk marketing. But the company might have a mild boost to the total number of search engine hits whenever you put its name in a search bar, due to being mentioned on more web pages. Any publicity is, as they say, good publicity.

    In other situations where for example a company shill has set up a thread innocently enquiring about some dangerously risky or outright scam 'investment opportunity'... and a savvy forum user has done some research and provided a scathing commentary on just how risky the offer is and why it carries all the hallmarks of a scam... I'm typically one of the people saying please don't mark it as spam, as it would be a great shame if the thread got deleted because then nobody searching MSE or Google is going to benefit from the research that proved it a likely scam, or would find out what sort of things you can look out for when evaluating if something's legit.

    I appreciate this sounds like a double standard but I think the difference is:

    1) if something is just blatant spam and quickly eradicated with the spam button, we should not give them the satisfaction of keeping their company name on our community pages, but

    2) if something is shown to be a scam or dangerously misleading and we have done some digging and recorded chapter and verse about why the offer is bad, risky, fraudulent etc in a sequence of posts within our community, it is very useful to keep that content 'alive' for people using the Search tools to find and be well warned, rather than us need to be on our guard that it will come around again and either we have to repeat ourselves or risk it not getting shot down so effectively the next time.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 18th Jul 18, 9:39 AM
    • 4,995 Posts
    • 8,075 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Anyone dealt with brightertrade?
    Originally posted by Juliannedix
    Almost certainly no-one here has, because

    1) It is not authorised to conduct business in the UK, or even its home country of Estonia. It's even managed the rare feat of garnering a warning from the Estonian regulator.

    2) More generally, this is a Savings and Investments forum, and people who have no savings because they blew it all trying to get rich quick with CFDs from Estonian brokers have no reason to use a Savings and Investments forum.
    • 4 Pete's Sake
    • By 4 Pete's Sake 21st Nov 18, 10:40 AM
    • 272 Posts
    • 189 Thanks
    4 Pete's Sake
    So many people have been predicting the bursting of the Cryptocurrency Bubble and now it is in full flow.

    Bitcoin: 18/12/17 $19500 - Now $7000 a 64% fall
    Ethereum: 14/1/18 $1353 - Now $676 a 59% fall
    Ripple: 5/1/18 $3.45 - Now $ 0.69 an 80% fall
    Bitcoin Cash: 21/12/17 - Now $3551 Now $907 a 75% fall

    This is just the beginning. Expect all of them to drop by at least 95% from their highs. It's Dot.com all over again and many young people are getting burnt.

    The wise will have heeded the warnings and top sliced or sold all of them already.

    I feel sorry for all those taken in by advertising over recent months, some referring to growth of 49,000% etc with no real warnings about how the price can also crash.

    I wonder if some Solicitors will see potential here to make claims of mis-selling.

    What will be next?

    Perhaps someone selling computer codes to bubbles located in black holes. They could call them "Gullibubbles".

    Checkout the latest falls here:

    https://coinranking.com/
    Originally posted by 4 Pete's Sake

    The above was posted by me on 5/2/2018


    The Stat's now are as follows:


    Bitcoin: 18/12/17 $19500 - Now $4597 a 76.5% fall
    Ethereum: 14/1/18 $1353 - Now $136 a 90% fall
    Ripple/XRP: 5/1/18 $3.45 - Now $ 0.44 an 87% fall
    Bitcoin Cash: 21/12/17 $3551 - Now $238 a 93.3% fall


    So much for Crypto Millionnaires, more like Crypto Bankrupts.



    Expect further fall in Crypto Prices.
    IF THIS POST HAS BEEN HELPFUL - PLEASE CLICK ON THANKS
    • Type 45
    • By Type 45 21st Nov 18, 10:58 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Type 45
    The prices will go back up. Those coins aren't going anywhere any time soon.




    I hope the price goes down to 1. I will buy lots of them if they do.
    • dealer wins
    • By dealer wins 21st Nov 18, 11:26 AM
    • 6,139 Posts
    • 11,973 Thanks
    dealer wins
    Why they will never take off is because they are unregulated, difficult to understand, difficult to use, subject to cyber attacks, and people can lose them all in a split second with no protection whatsoever!
    Choose life
    • Type 45
    • By Type 45 21st Nov 18, 11:44 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Type 45
    Why they will never take off is because they are unregulated, difficult to understand, difficult to use, subject to cyber attacks, and people can lose them all in a split second with no protection whatsoever!
    Originally posted by dealer wins

    They should be kept offline on a device such as a Nano S, Trezor or KeepKey. This is perfectly safe. If you keep them online you are risking theft.
    • Aegis
    • By Aegis 21st Nov 18, 12:42 PM
    • 5,008 Posts
    • 3,277 Thanks
    Aegis
    They should be kept offline on a device such as a Nano S, Trezor or KeepKey. This is perfectly safe. If you keep them online you are risking theft.
    Originally posted by Type 45
    Perfectly safe unless you lose the device...


    This of course contrasts with actual cash, which is perfectly safe to keep offline (unless you lose it) or online (where it is secure and protected by compensation arrangements).
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
    • Type 45
    • By Type 45 21st Nov 18, 1:53 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Type 45
    Perfectly safe unless you lose the device...


    This of course contrasts with actual cash, which is perfectly safe to keep offline (unless you lose it) or online (where it is secure and protected by compensation arrangements).
    Originally posted by Aegis



    If you lose the device the coins can be recovered with recovery words.
    • markj113
    • By markj113 21st Nov 18, 1:57 PM
    • 193 Posts
    • 136 Thanks
    markj113
    Perfectly safe unless you lose the device...


    This of course contrasts with actual cash, which is perfectly safe to keep offline (unless you lose it) or online (where it is secure and protected by compensation arrangements).
    Originally posted by Aegis

    If you lose the device you just buy another then use the recovery phrase to restore it.
    • Type 45
    • By Type 45 21st Nov 18, 2:17 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Type 45
    S&S, cash and crypto aren't an either/or. One can, and indeed should, diversify.


    I see crypto as being the high-risk 10%-20% of my portfolio. 80% in Vanguard Life Strategy 60/40. The rest in current accounts paying 1%+.
    • Economic
    • By Economic 21st Nov 18, 2:43 PM
    • 414 Posts
    • 437 Thanks
    Economic
    S&S, cash and crypto aren't an either/or. One can, and indeed should, diversify.


    I see crypto as being the high-risk 10%-20% of my portfolio. 80% in Vanguard Life Strategy 60/40. The rest in current accounts paying 1%+.
    Originally posted by Type 45
    One should diversify, but that does not mean that one should buy every type of asset.
    • Type 45
    • By Type 45 21st Nov 18, 2:50 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Type 45
    One should diversify, but that does not mean that one should buy every type of asset.
    Originally posted by Economic

    I'm not suggesting you should. But why not?
    • Economic
    • By Economic 21st Nov 18, 3:26 PM
    • 414 Posts
    • 437 Thanks
    Economic
    I'm not suggesting you should. But why not?
    Originally posted by Type 45
    It is best to avoid assets that are inherently worthless, such as crypto-currencies.
    • Aegis
    • By Aegis 21st Nov 18, 3:48 PM
    • 5,008 Posts
    • 3,277 Thanks
    Aegis
    If you lose the device the coins can be recovered with recovery words.
    Originally posted by Type 45

    Wans't aware of this. Doesn't it mean that the coins aren't perfectly safe from hacking though, as if you can recover your data someone else presumably can as well?


    Might be me just being naive!
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    Anything I say on the forum is for discussion purposes only and should not be construed as personal financial advice. It is vitally important to do your own research before acting on information gathered from any users on this forum.
    • Type 45
    • By Type 45 21st Nov 18, 3:56 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Type 45
    Wans't aware of this. Doesn't it mean that the coins aren't perfectly safe from hacking though, as if you can recover your data someone else presumably can as well?


    Might be me just being naive!
    Originally posted by Aegis

    Can't be hacked, apparently. You are supposed to keep the recovery words written down, not online. And the exchange doesn't have the words. Only you do. If you lose the device, and can't remember the recovery words, you have lost the coins.
    • Type 45
    • By Type 45 21st Nov 18, 3:57 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Type 45
    It is best to avoid assets that are inherently worthless, such as crypto-currencies.
    Originally posted by Economic

    You'll be using crypto one day.
    • short butt sweet
    • By short butt sweet 21st Nov 18, 9:18 PM
    • 177 Posts
    • 126 Thanks
    short butt sweet
    Can't be hacked, apparently. You are supposed to keep the recovery words written down, not online. And the exchange doesn't have the words. Only you do. If you lose the device, and can't remember the recovery words, you have lost the coins.
    Originally posted by Type 45
    i don't know the details of how these specific devices are set up. however, from the general principles of how cryptography works, it is possible to have a "secret" which is effectively available to either whoever is in possession of some physical device or somebody who knows some recovery words.

    but there are still practical difficulties ...

    first, the "recovery words" need to be cryptographically very strong, or somebody may be able to guess them. which is why you may want to write them down, rather than rely on memory. but then the paper can be lost / stolen.

    secondly, somebody who's stolen the device could use it to steal your crypto coins, if they take action before you notice your loss and use the recovery words to shift your coins to a new address.

    now, you could protect against that by requiring some further secret words to be used. in combination with the device, before it can be used to shift / steal coins. but then that secret needs to be cryptographically strong. and you may want to write it down. and that piece of paper could also be stolen. and so on.

    basically, you can, in theory, easily use cryptography to make access to a secret (and hence: control of some crypto coins) be determined be any logical combination of access to physical devices and knowledge of (not easily guessable) words. so e.g. access might require either possessing device D1 or knowing words W1, and in any case also also knowing words W2. or it might require any 3 out of 4 of: possessing D1, possessing D2, knowing W1, and knowing W2. etc.

    it's all very elegant in theory. but not especially practical, for real people to use. secret words tend to be so difficult to remember that people need to write them down (or they mess it up by using words that are guessable, compromizing security). and then it comes down to possession of some of out of a number of physical items, even if some of them are fancy devices and other are just bits of paper.

    yes, you can probably think of several different places to store those items, considering the risks of theft, fire, and so on. but that doesn't mean you'd have any chance of keeping possession of your "coins" against a really determined and well-resourced adversary. it also doesn't doesn't remove the risk of messing up, or being unlucky, so that you simply lose access to your coins by any available recovery method. basically, if you were frustrated by some aspects of traditional banking, a little knowledge of crypto banking should be enough to make you love traditional banking again
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