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  • FIRST POST
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 26th Oct 17, 9:10 AM
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    • 57Thanks
    Hockey27
    Train Station "PenaltyCN"
    • #1
    • 26th Oct 17, 9:10 AM
    Train Station "PenaltyCN" 26th Oct 17 at 9:10 AM
    Hi all

    Thanks in advance for any help and advice on this matter

    The Driver at a South Western station yesterday, something that has been done 50+ times in the past 6 months, after parking up, collecting prepaid train tickets and heading to the platform an attempt was made to pay for parking via ringo. Major issue ensues, the company phone was being migrated to a new platform meaning there was no data service and unfortunately no time to go back to the ticket office and car before the train arrived. After a few phone calls with the office the data service was unable to be restored meaning a ticket could not be put on.

    Upon return to the car a PCN was on the windscreen (which left an awful amount of residue once removed), stating all the usual, byelaws, prosecution etc etc. Once able (the first available chance)parking was immediately paid for at the full day rate/ full charge that would have been incurred.

    Ultimately the driver is aware that they have fallen foul of the rules, but not through a deliberate act, what options are there form this point?


    - Are there extenuating circumstances regards the phone service - no data, cannot use app or internet to find phone number

    - Where the fee was paid in full has the company suffered "no material loss" therefore the fine is unwarranted

    - The contravention is "not displaying a permit or ticket", every time the car has been parked a ticket has always been paid for, so never displayed a ticket/ permit, surely if this is the offence a fine should have been issued every time

    - One major point of query, a "PENALTY Charge Notice" was issued apposed to a "PARKING Charge, having read the forums and other websites it appears as if only councils, local authorities and police can hand thee out. Is the charge unenforceable as they are none of the above?




    Thanks again all
    Last edited by Hockey27; 26-10-2017 at 10:54 AM.
Page 4
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 2nd Dec 17, 2:46 PM
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    pappa golf
    The back of the letter does give an appeals process.

    It says appeals must be received within 28 days and includes a web link and email address


    Should the letter state NTK at the top, or is it sufficient to be in the wording of the letter?
    Originally posted by Hockey27
    and to Whom does it say to appeal to ?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 2nd Dec 17, 2:53 PM
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    Umkomaas
    It doesn!!!8217;t need to state !!!8216;Notice to Keeper!!!8217;, but it is literally a (lower case) notice to the keeper, so you treat it as a NtK - first notification.

    As you!!!8217;ve got 28 days to appeal, you need to do that near to the deadline as you are looking to drag this out beyond the 6 months the TOC has to pursue through the Mags Court.

    When you come to doing the appeal, you use the blue text template appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1, and you send it by precisely the method required - as shown in the NtK.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 2nd Dec 17, 3:10 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Hockey27
    It says to appeal to Parking "Charlie Sierra Lima"

    Thanks for confirming NTK is valid as such, will send Blue appeal at 26± days and await a POPLA code!!
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 8th Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Hockey27
    Hi all

    Hope everyone had a god xmas and new year?

    An update on this one, I appealed as the "Registered Keeper" to the PPC 2-3 days prior to the deadline using the blue template, I have now received a response from the PPC declining my appeal (17 days since), excerpts from the email are below, the data protection bit was an interesting read, not sure if this is standard response or if a worrying abuse/ breach??

    One thing to note is that a POPLA code has not been offered, nor referenced in the email!

    Thank you for your communication regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
    After carefully considering the points made in your appeal, I am unable to offer you a cancellation as I am satisfied that the PCN was issued correctly.
    I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is still payable.


    My findings
    The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area. As these terms were breached on XX/XX/2017, a PCN was correctly and legitimately issued.
    The terms and conditions were broken by parking on private land without making a valid payment.


    Section 10 notice
    You have objected to our processing of your data under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998. However, you have no right to object to our doing so if:
    you have consented to the processing;
    the processing is necessary:
    in relation to a contract that the individual has entered into; or
    because the individual has asked for something to be done so they can enter into a contract;
    the processing is necessary because of a legal obligation that applies to you (other than a contractual obligation); or
    the processing is necessary to protect the individual’s “vital interests”.
    the processing does not cause unwarranted and substantial damage or distress.
    Your details were obtained from the DVLA under a reasonable cause request.
    We believe that our holding of your details on the file is correct due to the validity of the parking charge and we do not believe that our processing of your data will cause you unwarranted and substantial damage or distress. Therefore, we will not remove your details from our system.



    Separately I have received a letter from D.R.Plus, dated 6 days after I sent my appeal letter with all the usual spiel and giving me a deadline in which to pay.


    The next steps.....

    - Should I continue to ignore D.R.P?
    - Should I respond re-iterating my request for a POPLA code (and only that) in the first instance?
    - Reference the reason given (parked on private land without paying), that is untrue as a ticket was paid when the driver was able to do so? something to save for a POPLA appeal perhaps?


    Thanks in advance for any and all assistance
    Last edited by Hockey27; 08-01-2018 at 8:22 PM.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Jan 18, 7:39 PM
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    pappa golf
    thank you for your communication regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice ?
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 8th Jan 18, 8:23 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Hockey27
    Hey Pappa Golf

    Correct, they are chasing a "Penalty charge notice" for my vehicle, for allegedly parking in a railway station car park and not paying for parking
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Jan 18, 8:27 PM
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    pappa golf
    parking charge notice = civil = parking co v you

    penalty charge = legal (magistrates court) TRAIN Co v you

    why have popla adjudicated on a case that does not concurn them ?
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 8th Jan 18, 8:31 PM
    • 81 Posts
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    Hockey27
    Sorry, think there may some confusion! This is a reply from the PPC.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Jan 18, 8:35 PM
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    pappa golf
    does the land come under railway bylaws , are there sighs stating railway land or not

    in you initial post you say "Upon return to the car a PCN was on the windscreen (which left an awful amount of residue once removed), stating all the usual, byelaws, prosecution etc etc. Once able (the first available chance)parking was immediately paid for at the full day rate/ full charge that would have been incurred."


    so , the land comes under bylaws , it would be upto the train co to take you to court , within 6 mths of the incident
    Last edited by pappa golf; 08-01-2018 at 8:46 PM.
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 8th Jan 18, 9:19 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Hockey27
    Hey Pappa Golf

    Yes, the land is under byleaws, this is stated on the ticket and the signs, albeit it very small writing!

    Are you suggesting they shouldn't be chasing at all, or are they able to chase on behalf of the TOC??
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Jan 18, 9:37 PM
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    pappa golf
    look at other railway threads , ONLY the train co can take you to court ,

    the Parking Co cannot get info from the DVLA and pass it to a company that is not registered with the DVLA , the train co is not registerd with the BPA or micky mouse club (IPC)

    bide your time , play ping pong royal main , 6 mths will pass quickly

    its a game , pay us £100 and we will not tell the train company ,,,,,,,,,
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 8th Jan 18, 9:39 PM
    • 2,516 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    You!!!8217;re asking question after question until 6 months passes

    The your final question is: after 6 months have passed can any prosecution succeed?
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 8th Jan 18, 9:40 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Hockey27
    Thanks Pappa Golf, that re-enforces what my thoughts were! Although I wasn't aware that TOC's are not registered with the DVLA. Is there a list of ones that are?

    I think I shall go back to them requesting a POPLA code again, that should take up another few weeks!
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 8th Jan 18, 9:49 PM
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    pappa golf
    Thanks Pappa Golf, that re-enforces what my thoughts were! Although I wasn't aware that TOC's are not registered with the DVLA. Is there a list of ones that are?

    I think I shall go back to them requesting a POPLA code again, that should take up another few weeks!
    Originally posted by Hockey27

    micky mouse club (ipc) https://theipc.info/aos-members

    BPA http://www.britishparking.co.uk/BPA-Approved-Operators

    and a list here explaing ownership etc , and also listing number of court cases http://www.bmpa.eu/company_guide_0_to_c.html
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Jan 18, 10:24 PM
    • 17,624 Posts
    • 27,847 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Back in October I twice advised you to complain to the DVLA and the BPA. What were the outcomes of those complaints?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Jan 18, 11:33 PM
    • 7,228 Posts
    • 6,736 Thanks
    KeithP
    Back in October I twice advised you to complain to the DVLA and the BPA. What were the outcomes of those complaints?
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Ten days later he was 'preparing a letter':
    To aid with the case against these sharks I am also preparing a letter to the DVLA & BPA complaining about the operator.
    Originally posted by Hockey27
    .
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 9th Jan 18, 7:23 AM
    • 81 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Hockey27
    Umkomaas. I was waiting to hear from them first, which I have now.

    I will look at putting a letter to the DVLA and BPA citing where I believe guidelines have been breached. I will do a bit more research on the DVLA front as to what to say. I would think the PPC response regards data protection would be of interest there?!!
    • Hockey27
    • By Hockey27 18th Jan 18, 6:40 PM
    • 81 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    Hockey27
    Hi

    When I received the rejection from the PPC they gave no POPLA code, nor a reason why one was not given. I am looking to contact them in the next day or 2 before their deadline (22nd) to pay post rejection.

    Would anyone mind checking my message below to see that I'm not barking up the wrong tree, or possibly advise not to contact as they have no voluntarily provided one?

    Also, I have been putting together the POPLA appeal as well as setting information for DVLA and BPA letters. Simply, how long do these need to be, and should I wait till the conclusion to note all breaches or send something off now adding to it further down the line?


    Message to company......

    Whilst I acknowledge receipt of the below, I reject the premise and supposed outcomes. For the avoidance of doubt, I state that the appeal is by the registered keeper, no consent has been given to process data relating to me or this vehicle and I deny liability for any sum owed. No admissions will be made, and no assumptions can be drawn as to the identity of the driver.

    At this present time you have failed to adhere to mandatory POFA obligations that you are bound by, namely providing a POPLA code upon rejection of a valid and timely appeal. Therefore, at this time I offer 3 courses of action;-

    1 - Cancel the spurious charge
    2 - Provide a valid POPLA code dated from the date of your next contact, not in the past
    or
    3 - Contact the driver

    Should I receive no further contact from yourselves I must conclude that the charge has been cancelled and that no further communication will be received from yourselves, any subsidiary company or 3rd party contractor.

    I would also like to note that I will be registering a complaint with the BPA for breach of codes of practice, and the DVLA for misuse of information. I would also like to be clear that if you continue to chase me (the registered keeper) I will seek to take court action against you for unlawful processing of the keepers information and harassment


    Thanks all
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    • 18,134 Posts
    • 22,920 Thanks
    Redx
    I do not know if you are aware of this but the BPA have recently removed the POPLA option for bylaw issues pending the DoT to sort out the mess which they said they would do about 12 months ago, and havent (and neither has the Secretary of State for Transport either)

    I suspect that this is why you have no POPLA code , nor will you get one either

    a complaint to the BPA would tell you this in their reply

    you were told by Umkomaas some 2 or 3 months ago to put those complaints in

    the DVLA will probably refer you to the BPA or the DoT or whichever government department is dithering over it

    PG will no doubt copy and paste the info he has that he has posted in other bylaw threads on similar issues

    the main issue here is to get past the 6 months stage for MAGS court

    this is usually achieved by stringing it out using email tennis or postal tennis

    various posts including posts #16 and #27 and #31 told you this
    Last edited by Redx; 18-01-2018 at 7:03 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 18th Jan 18, 7:05 PM
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    pappa golf
    all; postings regarding bylaws can be found

    did the parking Co get your info from the DVLA , or did you hand it to them
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