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  • FIRST POST
    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 25th Oct 17, 11:59 PM
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    milzy246
    Parking Fine Query
    • #1
    • 25th Oct 17, 11:59 PM
    Parking Fine Query 25th Oct 17 at 11:59 PM
    Hi, I am new here, and have a quick question. a parking fine from UKPC was issued in a retail car park. The ticket was posted on my vehicle windscreen, however the last letter of my vehicle registration number is incorrect. I have checked on their website with the penalty reference and the incorrect registration details on the ticket, it shows pictures of my vehicle-obviously with the correct reg number.

    Having gone through the information provided on this site, I have seen that I should wait for the NTK from the company. My question is, as the information on the ticket does not actually match my vehicle-would that be a solid reason to appeal and have the ticket cancelled? I was able to find some information about this, but it wasn't completely clear....and is the reason why I'm asking for clarification. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by milzy246; 09-01-2018 at 5:44 PM.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Oct 17, 12:44 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:44 AM
    • #2
    • 26th Oct 17, 12:44 AM
    Personally, as you can see the PCN details and photos on UKPC's webpage, I would appeal as normal on day 26, without pointing out the error, just using the usual BPA template appeal you've seen in the NEWBIES thread.

    This is likely to mean UKPC will probably omit to serve any NTK. This is a far better position at POPLA, for winning, than a more complicated appeal that has to show POPLA that the NTK (that will inevitably come, with an altered VRN if you do nothing) doesn't match the PCN.

    So, I would follow the usual route and not wait, because it is UKPC and because you can see the case is on their system, so you know at some point they'll change the error and send an altered NTK. I've seen them. Avoid that, do the usual appeal on day 26.

    Another poster says that UKPC's appeals page isn't working now, but I assume you are not yet at day 26 from parking event?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 26th Oct 17, 7:47 AM
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    fisherjim
    • #3
    • 26th Oct 17, 7:47 AM
    • #3
    • 26th Oct 17, 7:47 AM
    Sorry to be blunt but you need to read the advice on here better than you have so far:

    It's not a "fine"
    It's not a "penalty notice"
    PPC's often put in the wrong vrn to trap the driver into appealing and outing themselves early on.

    You are dealing with lying scammers, and this lot have even been caught falsifying photos to further their ill gotten gains.
    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 9th Jan 18, 12:24 AM
    • 10 Posts
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    milzy246
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 12:24 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 12:24 AM
    So following on from this, I appealed using the template on this site. I received a letter back from UKPC requested a copy of the blue disabled badge and the details of the driver of my vehicle. The notice given was because my vehicle was parked in a disabled spot without displaying a badge. Following on from the response to my appeal, I also received the NTK. At this stage do I provide a copy of the disabled badge? Would this be enough for them to cancel the ticket? Do I respond to the NTK or do I proceed with the next stage? TIA
    Last edited by milzy246; 09-01-2018 at 5:38 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jan 18, 1:31 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:31 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:31 AM
    What's the gap in days, between parking event and NTK?

    At this stage do I provide a copy of the disabled badge? Would this be enough for them to cancel the ticket?
    No, it won't.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 9th Jan 18, 6:46 AM
    • 10 Posts
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    milzy246
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:46 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:46 AM
    The parking event was 14/10/17 & the NTK is dated 20/12/17
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jan 18, 9:26 AM
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    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 9:26 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 9:26 AM
    The parking event was 14/10/17 & the NTK is dated 20/12/17
    Originally posted by milzy246
    Theyíre out of time to invoke Keeper Liability - thatís 68 days (date to date), when they needed to serve the NtK between days 28 and 56 following the parking event. So as long as the driver hasnít been identified, an easy win at POPLA.

    But Iím concerned about what you said to them in your initial appeal - because you have certainly identified the driver in your posts here, which urgently need editing!

    Have they given you a POPLA Code?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 9th Jan 18, 6:29 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    milzy246
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:29 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 18, 6:29 PM
    I have edited the post (Thank you). For the initial appeal, I appealed as the registered keeper of the vehicle and used the template from this site. The letter I received in response to the appeal was the request for a copy of the disabled badge and the driver's details in order for them to make a final decision. If this information was not provided, then they would make their final decision based on what they have (which is just the template I sent them) at which stage they will provide me with a POPLA code.
    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 10th Jan 18, 10:51 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    milzy246
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:51 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 10:51 PM
    Just wondering if anyone can offer any advise on the appeal reply I received from UKPC
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jan 18, 10:55 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    The parking event was 14/10/17 & the NTK is dated 20/12/17
    Originally posted by milzy246
    Good, they are too late then. I would have some fun and email:

    appealmoreinfo@ukparkingcontrol.com

    and tell them:

    Dear Shirley,

    Here is a copy of the Blue Badge of an occupant of the car on the day. The driver will not be named and since the NTK arrived over two months after the parking event, UKPC will be unable to hold the keeper liable. You know this, I know this, so don't insult me by begging for £15 'admin fee' because we will not be paying the likes of UKPC, given your firm's dreadful reputation and the fact you cannot now win at POPLA.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 17th Jan 18, 10:01 PM
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    milzy246
    I emailed them the message as you suggested and at first I didn't understand the £15 admin fee reference..but I received a letter today stating I could pay the 'reduced rate of £15 as a gesture of goodwill'....now it makes sense!

    So as well as the 'gesture of goodwill' amount, they have also provided a POPLA reference number. Do I now lodge an appeal with POPLA?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Jan 18, 10:08 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes, draft a POPLA appeal & show us first, unless you want to pay them £15.

    You can tell we've seen this umpteen dozen times before! Knew they'd do that!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 17th Jan 18, 10:12 PM
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    • 4,611 Thanks
    fisherjim
    I emailed them the message as you suggested and at first I didn't understand the £15 admin fee reference..but I received a letter today stating I could pay the 'reduced rate of £15 as a gesture of goodwill'....now it makes sense!

    So as well as the 'gesture of goodwill' amount, they have also provided a POPLA reference number. Do I now lodge an appeal with POPLA?
    Originally posted by milzy246
    They have offered the "goodwill" gesture because they know they will loose a well informed POPLA appeal.
    The £15 is a figure they hope will make you cave in so they get at least something out of you.

    Use your POPLA appeal and cost the scammers money instead but let the regulars see it first on here>
    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 17th Jan 18, 10:45 PM
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    milzy246
    Nope-I won't be paying! Definitely will be appealing! I'll write up my appeal and post here! Thanks so much for your help thus far!
    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 31st Jan 18, 10:58 PM
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    • 7 Thanks
    milzy246
    I found this appeal wording that seemed to fit my situation with the late issuing of the NTK;

    This operator has not fulfilled the 'second condition' for keeper liability as defined in Schedule 4 and as a result, they have no lawful authority to pursue any parking charge from myself, as a registered keeper appellant. There is no discretion on this matter. If Schedule 4 mandatory documents are not served at all, or in time (or if the document omits any prescribed wording) then keeper liability simply does not apply.

    The wording in the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 is as follows:

    ''Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle:
    4(1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle. (2) The right under this paragraph applies only if

    (a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6*, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met;

    *Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4:
    6(1) ''The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)!!!8212; (a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8. This is re-iterated further !!!8216;If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper MUST be given in accordance with paragraph 8.!!!8217;

    The NTK must have been delivered to the registered keeper!!!8217;s address within the !!!8216;relevant period!!!8217; which is highlighted as a total of 56 days beginning with the day after that on which any notice to driver was given. As this operator has evidently failed to serve a NTK within this time, not only have they chosen to flout the strict requirements set out in PoFA 2012, but they have consequently failed to meet the second condition for keeper liability. Clearly I cannot be held liable to pay this charge as the mandatory series of parking charge documents were not properly given.



    Do I need to mention that I provided a copy of the disabled badge that UKPC requested?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Feb 18, 12:55 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    No, you do not want to imply who was driving so no Blue Badge for POPLA, which you will do online by clicking 'OTHER' and attaching your entire (long) POPLA appeal PDF (3 or 4 template appeal points).

    The above is ONE of those points, but you need more. As per post #3 of the NEWBIES thread.

    A POPLA code only lasts about 30 days so don't leave it too late to submit to POPLA, and DON'T post it.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 5th Feb 18, 1:09 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    milzy246
    I also intend to include the poor signage, and failure to identify the driver-I tried to copy and paste it here, but it wouldn't let me. I will obtain a picture of the sign to include-is this enough-or do I still need to find more?

    Sorry-I'm feeling a little like a fish out of water! I'm truly overwhelmed with the amount of information I'm coming across, and trying to understand it all to know what applies to me and which doesn't
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Feb 18, 1:54 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Just read post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, they all apply to you...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • milzy246
    • By milzy246 8th Mar 18, 11:34 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    milzy246
    Thank you all for your help-especially Coupon-Mad! I received an email from POPLA stating UKPC did not want to contest the appeal...and my appeal was successful!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 18, 11:40 PM
    • 58,549 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Easy when you know how, the 'fish out of water' soon learned how to swim! Well done!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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