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  • FIRST POST
    • ed wood
    • By ed wood 11th Oct 17, 8:34 PM
    • 32Posts
    • 14Thanks
    ed wood
    Indigo penalty notice train station
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 17, 8:34 PM
    Indigo penalty notice train station 11th Oct 17 at 8:34 PM
    Hi All,
    My Mum received a penalty notice today whilst parked in Crawley Train station. Quite simply she couldn't buy a ticket because none of the ticket machines would accept her money and she doesn't own a mobile to pay on the phone. She left a note on her windscreen saying she was unable to buy a ticket as the machines weren't working. I think she honestly thought the scum who give these notices out would have an ounce of compassion and empathy and not ticket her!
    Anyhow, first question. Does the fact she left this note muddy the waters in anyway? I'm wondering if this could be seen as an admission of guilt?
    Secondly I'm aware that the whole byelaw issue comes into it as it was a train station. I have read through the lewes indigo thread and will use this letter as my template for the Popla appeal. Due to the Byelaws/train station issue do I stick with the standard first appeal template for BPA members as found on the newbies page or attempt anything different?
    Cheers, Ed
Page 2
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Jan 18, 11:42 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,295 Thanks
    pappa golf
    a private criminal prosecution? , for what?? indigo have not suffered any loses
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 1st Jan 18, 12:02 PM
    • 17,322 Posts
    • 27,289 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    If the the penalty is not paid, then our client is entitled to commence a private criminal prosecution against you for your breach of railway byelaw 14.
    I would immediately complain to the BPA and the DVLA about this gross misrepresentation of authority. Copy in your MP.

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 1st Jan 18, 12:16 PM
    • 9,064 Posts
    • 8,760 Thanks
    The Deep
    Also in writing to Trading Standards. Cause them as much grief as possible.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • ed wood
    • By ed wood 1st Jan 18, 2:29 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    ed wood
    Thanks as ever everyone, such a helpful place, fills me with joy to know there are so many good people willing to help others.
    I'll write to the DVLA, BPA, trading standards. Any hints or tips as to what needs to go in the letter? Would the main body of my letter be the fact that they are threatening a criminal prosecution when they have no authority to do so which could therefore be seen as extortion?
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 1st Jan 18, 3:36 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 230 Thanks
    Handbags-at-dawn
    Would the main body of my letter be the fact that they are threatening a criminal prosecution when they have no authority to do so which could therefore be seen as extortion?
    Originally posted by ed wood
    No. This is not your best point. The right to bring a private prosecution derives from s6(1) Prosecution of Offences Act 1985. There is nothing to stop a PPC from doing so if it wants to - it's just that it is highly unlikely to want to. It doesn't need to be the injured party.

    The gross misrepresentation of authority lies more in the attempt to act as both judge and executioner in their own case (in flagrant disregard of fundamental legal principles) by stating a) an offence has been committed and b) you must therefore pay a penalty.

    Additionally, the assertion that the penalty was issued under s219 Tranpsort Act 2000 is absolute nonsense. The only mention of Byelaw penalties in the Transport Act is in Schedule 20, which gives the power for Penalties to be imposed only upon summary conviction - ie by the Magistrates' Court. This was confirmed by the Department for Transport which stated in writing that no-one but the Court can impose a penalty for breach of Byelaws 14 (1-3).

    Since only the driver can be prosecuted, only the driver , upon conviction, would have to pay anything. No-one, whether owner, keeper or driver is liable for the PPC's home-made version.

    Have a look at post 19 on this Pepipoo thread:
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=117767&st=0
    Anon45 has set out the scam very clearly.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Jan 18, 5:35 PM
    • 56,269 Posts
    • 69,904 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    our next action is to pass this account to the law firm QDR solicitors ltd.
    Big wow! NOT!

    Google search QDR Solicitors parking (don't read their own website) and you will find this fizzles out.

    However, I totally agree on the action needed - a formal complaint to all parties mentioned above.

    I also think you need to show Which? Your letter and ask them to investigate this misleading threat of a 'private criminal prosecution' under byelaws that are only ever in the gift of the Train Operators/Railway itself:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5765579

    Tell them what appears to be happening and ask Which? to investigate it as a priority in 2018. Certainly some random BPA member moneygrabber is the very last sort of company you'd want to be given any power to take out 'private prosecutions' - if this situation is looking set to slip under the Dept for Transport radar, it needs stamping on HARD.

    I would ask your MP to ask questions of the Dept for Transport as I am concerned that I did read suggestions somewhere in 2017 that railway/airport byelaws enforcement might be changing to perhaps allow private charges from PPCs (hope I am wrong but I think the DVLA replied in a wishy-washy way to someone that byelaws enforcement changes were afoot).

    If so, your MP needs to alert the Dept for Transport to this drivel and not let this situation to morph due to the (likely) lobbying of BPA suits pretending that the interests of the railways and airports are at the 'heart of their thinking' (exactly like the BPA used to spin the line that 'motorists' were - yeah, right).

    Personally speaking (just an observation) I'd be deeply ashamed if I worked for a PPC Trade Body in any capacity that supported any private companies who are members. How can these people (so called Trade Bodies) support ex-clampers as they maraud around causing such distress and harassment to consumers for years (worse now than when clamping wasn't a criminal offence) and actually think that it's OK to do this in life?

    To want to extend the powers of private companies in any way at all, is shameful. The industry needs banning completely. They do not protect land for landowners, they protect their own cash stream, and it gets worse year on year.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 01-01-2018 at 8:46 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 1st Jan 18, 8:43 PM
    • 7,178 Posts
    • 9,501 Thanks
    beamerguy

    Personally speaking (just an observation) I'd be deeply ashamed if I worked for a PPC Trade Body in any capacity that supported any private companies who are members. How can these people (so called Trade Bodies) support ex-clampers as they maraud around causing such distress and harassment to consumers for years (worse now than when clamping wasn't a criminal offence) and actually think that it's OK to do this in life?

    To want to extend the powers of private companies in any way at all, is shameful. The industry needs banning completely.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    As I said in another thread, Steve Clark of the BPA
    is yellow bellied and is scared of his membership.

    The BPA should be sacked from ATA status and
    Steve Clark should resign as he is more useless
    than his predecessor, ... upskirt Patrick Troy
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • ed wood
    • By ed wood 25th Jan 18, 11:04 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    ed wood
    Received a letter from the infamous QDR today. Here's what they've got to say for themselves:
    "we have been instructed by ZZPS limited who are acting on behalf of indigo park solutions UK limited in connection with the above debt, which has been incurred following the failure to repay the penalty notice detailed above, and we require you to make payment in full within the next 14 days.
    Failure to make payment in full or contact us to discuss repayment of this debt may result in us recommending to the car park operator that the matter be enforced through criminal court proceedings. Such proceedings would require your attendance before the magistrates court."

    The two things I take from this are; the first paragraph really needs a few full stops! Why do they use the word repayment, surely that only applies to money borrowed?
    They've put the cost up to £206

    I've written a number of letters of complaint as recommended. Anything else I should do at this point?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 25th Jan 18, 11:12 AM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,295 Thanks
    pappa golf
    they seem to be confused about what actions there employer can take

    neither zzps or indigo can start criminal proceedings regarding this parking event

    indigo cannot pass your info on to the train co , as they signed a paper with the DVLA

    now sit back for the next 3 mths
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 25th Jan 18, 11:14 AM
    • 17,322 Posts
    • 27,289 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    If you!!!8217;re up for it I!!!8217;d write back and tell them that as the !!!8216;penalty!!!8217; charge is already 3.5 months old, that they!!!8217;d better get on with things as the Mags Court won!!!8217;t deal with this after 6 months.

    As this is an issue with Indigo, why have ZZPS instructed QDR? Ask them who provided QDR with your details, because the !!!8216;authority!!!8217; to do so under the DPA aspect f Indigo!!!8217;s KADOE contract with the DVLA does not extend beyond ZZPS.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 25-01-2018 at 12:05 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 25th Jan 18, 2:08 PM
    • 106 Posts
    • 230 Thanks
    Handbags-at-dawn
    Seems like the QDR template letter is their latest thing:
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=116115&pid=1349682&st=60&#entr y1349682

    Perhaps you could also ask them to clarify precisely what offence the registered keeper is to be prosecuted for.
    Last edited by Handbags-at-dawn; 25-01-2018 at 2:31 PM. Reason: Added in a link
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 9th Feb 18, 4:46 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 184 Thanks
    financerulez
    If you’re up for it I’d write back and tell them that as the ‘penalty’ charge is already 3.5 months old, that they’d better get on with things as the Mags Court won’t deal with this after 6 months.

    As this is an issue with Indigo, why have ZZPS instructed QDR? Ask them who provided QDR with your details, because the ‘authority’ to do so under the DPA aspect f Indigo’s KADOE contract with the DVLA does not extend beyond ZZPS.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas
    Hi Umkomaas

    Why is that? Because they are not sub-contractors?

    Are ZZPS even subcontractors?

    Or is it down to authority?

    Have a read of my thread if you like. Maybe DVLA banned ZZPS, and now they've moved onto Adaptis? Or it could be because of the ANPR system.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Feb 18, 5:04 PM
    • 17,322 Posts
    • 27,289 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Indigo can pass on your data to ZZPS (as their debt collector/sub-contractor). But QDR are saying that ZZPS is their client. ZZPS has no reason to pass on your data to a third party.

    If QDR were saying that Indigo was their client, then the passing of your data to them would be legit, but ZZPS has no locus to do so.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
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