Debate House Prices
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Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5
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tracey3596 wrote: »Yes we pay from our taxes but we do not need to provide pay-as-you-go funding for most of our treatment, and that has always been one of the core principles of the NHS since it's inception.
And one of the unfortunate results of that is many people don't value the services they get, resulting in a tremendous waste of money and clogging up of the system through big issues such as the 'worried well' and a BILLION £ a year of missed appointments.
We've got people stuck in ambulances for hours waiting for treatment at the moment, and we also wasted a BILLION £ last year on people no-showing to doctors appointments.
That can't possibly be the most efficient way of doing things....“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »We've got people stuck in ambulances for hours waiting for treatment at the moment
Waiting in an ambulance is not ideal, but it does not equate to "waiting for treatment". I have personal experience of seeing a heart attack victim treated for over an hour by paramedics from an ambulance, only when his condition was stabilised did they even think of driving to the hospital.0 -
tracey3596 wrote: »Is this Brexit thread turning into a healthcare thread now?
Regardless off which reports your personal biases prefer to use the figures on balance appear to point to the UK being at least centrally-placed regarding healthcare within the EU at least.
There is one very important difference in the UK system though.
You don't pay at the point of delivery here.
In France, visiting a GP will cost you over £20 ( €25 ) each time. ALL medicines must be paid for. Hospitalisation will cost you a €18 contribution per day.
Also in France for example if in a medical emergency you need an ambulance a Doctor must agree that you need one before one is dispatched to you - and if one arrives you could find that it's a taxi or even a fire services vehicle.
Yes we pay from our taxes but we do not need to provide pay-as-you-go funding for most of our treatment, and that has always been one of the core principles of the NHS since it's inception.
I will never understand the British attitude to health care. They pay thousands for their pets health but ask them to pay for parking in a NHS car park and it's front page news.....
.... In the end people voted for Corbyn because he persuaded them that they don't have to pay for their health- the rich can pay - as in the top 5%... Not them...
... You have to conclude Brits don't want good health care or they do but only if someone else pays...
....as for a Corbyn win and the nhs - all that would happen is that the staff would get massive pay rises as he is owned by the unions. The standard of care wouldn't actually go up.Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you.0 -
posh*spice wrote: »I will never understand the British attitude to health care. They pay thousands for their pets health but ask them to pay for parking in a NHS car park and it's front page news.....
.... In the end people voted for Corbyn because he persuaded them that they don't have to pay for their health- the rich can pay - as in the top 5%... Not them...
... You have to conclude Brits don't want good health care or they do but only if someone else pays...
....as for a Corbyn win and the nhs - all that would happen is that the staff would get massive pay rises as he is owned by the unions. The standard of care wouldn't actually go up.
The British attitude to health care is an honourable and simple one.
It’s an inalienable human right and should not be dependent on a individual citizens ability to pay for it at the point of access/need.
Having a system like others where you hand over a wedge of money when you see a medical professional disgusts me.“Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧0 -
The British attitude to health care is an honourable and simple one.
It’s an inalienable human right and should not be dependent on a individual citizens ability to pay for it at the point of access/need.
.
We are veering off topic, but briefly, how would you handle the Billion pounds a year wasted through no-shows for doctors appointments?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Quite so.The British attitude to health care is an honourable and simple one.
It’s an inalienable human right and should not be dependent on a individual citizens ability to pay for it at the point of access/need.
Having a system like others where you hand over a wedge of money when you see a medical professional disgusts me.
At the risk of further veering from the thread title:
Whilst I agree with Hamish's waste comment and also with I suppose the reasoning behind that of Posh too, IMHO it's not just the efficiency or charging for treatment that must change per se in the NHS. It's a rationalisation of the amount that the NHS does free of charge too. Already (for example) eye care and dentistry must have at least some contribution made in most cases so a precedent is already in place.
The amount of unnecessary visits too is little short of shocking. If (as the Telegraph says on Jan 2nd) "NHS England said that in 2016/17, more than nine million people were sent home from A&E after only getting advice" then how many more are only needing the most basic first aid of a sticking plaster or similar that most of us would do in our own homes?
A debate is probably better on a new thread (don't I remember one some time ago) regarding how best the NHS could be reformed but as Hamish points out above, there are options.
None of which are really relevant to Brexit but are rather a home-grown issue of long standing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/02/dont-waste-time-nhs-pleads-17-million-needless-visits/0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »We are veering off topic, but briefly, how would you handle the Billion pounds a year wasted through no-shows for doctors appointments?
I suppose there are loads of ways you can consider to discourage this practice, many of which would not fit in with our preferred system of not taking money off people to access healthcare.
I guess I’m saying it’s price you pay for a system that relies heavily on the personal responsibility of individual citizens.“Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧0 -
He's the guy that refused to control immigration on winning the GE in 1997 and didn't build houses.
He's the guy that robbed our kids of a future. Of course, he's too dumb to realise this as he can afford to buy million pound homes for his kids, from all that middle east blood money.
Why are people incapable of considering the issue (what Blair says about Brexit) rather than just demonstrating their dislike of the messenger. This thread is about BREXIT not about what Labour did or did not do 15 years ago.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Biggest jump in UK productivity in six years announced yesterday. One swallow and all that, but are UK employers beginning to wean themselves off cheap EU labour as a precursor to Brexit?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5238537/UK-productivity-growth-hits-six-year-high.html
Yes but lets not forget that productivity is now 1% higher that its peak 2007 and way below the trend.Philip Shaw, chief economist at City bank Investec, said falling numbers of people entering the workforce and fewer hours worked were also key reasons for the gains. When fewer people work fewer hours but economic output holds steady, efficiency levels naturally rise, he said.
“I’d take one quarter’s numbers with a pinch of salt. It’s not at all bad news but difficult to embrace as a big change just yet in what is a disappointing history since crisis,” he added.
But yes lets hope the growth continues.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
I suppose there are loads of ways you can consider to discourage this practice, many of which would not fit in with our preferred system of not taking money off people to access healthcare.
I guess I’m saying it’s price you pay for a system that relies heavily on the personal responsibility of individual citizens.
I would rather see a system that meant missed appointments did not incur a charge. I would favour giving those who miss the appointment a time penalty. eg Patient does not attend. The next time they ask for an appointment they are told they need to attend at say 0930 and that they will be seen when convenient in the next 4 hours.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0
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