Debate House Prices
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Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5
Comments
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You see you are looking at everything from your point of view I didn't say they need us more than we need them but it will impact certain sectors of EU more than others.
You didn’t say it in so many words but you’ve suggested that Spanish farmers are likely to pressure their government to get a deal on agriculture. I don’t see any difference between that and the ‘they need us’ argument.I hate verisimilitude.0 -
No I didn't that's just you reading things into my post. I would expect the Spanish farmers do you think they are happy with the prospect just because it would effect us more than the EU it doesn't mean it will not effect them at all.You didn’t say it in so many words but you’ve suggested that Spanish farmers are likely to pressure their government to get a deal on agriculture. I don’t see any difference between that and the ‘they need us’ argument.0 -
No I didn't that's just you reading things into my post. I would expect the Spanish farmers do you think they are happy with the prospect just because it would effect us more than the EU it doesn't mean it will not effect them at all.
What does it matter what they think if they don’t put pressure on their government?I hate verisimilitude.0 -
'Enormous arrogance' German MEP rages at Barnier for 'unfair' Brexit strategy towards UK
Sad when EU polititians can see it but remainers can't.Hans-Olaf Henkel, a member of the Liberal-Conservative Reformers, part of the European Conservatives and Reformists, has criticised Michel Barnier for the way he has managed Brexit negotiations.
Mr Henkel claimed the European Union’s approach to Brexit talks was “illogical” during his LBC interview with Matt Frei.
The German MEP also said that the EU was trying to give the impression that they were “punishing” the UK, in fear more member states may leave the bloc.
He said: “The whole strategy by Barnier is in my view unfair to Britain.
“I said from the outset I am against Brexit but I do support the vote of the British people. I think they should give a fair deal to Britain.
“The very fact that the whole game plan of what should be agreed upon first until you get to the second, third and fourth stage, has not been developed jointly by Britain and the EU, it has been forced down the throat of Britain by the EU.
“If you have a trade deal between country A and country B, both parties have to agree on the sequence of the agreement and negotiations, this has not been an agreement.”
The German MEP agreed, insisting that EU chiefs were “scared stiff” of the bloc crumbling.
He said: “I am convinced that this is that case. These europhiles Barnier… most of the people in Brussels, they are absolutely scared stiff that some other country might get the idea and try to leave the European Union.
“They are trying to give the impression that they want to punish the British, I am surprised by the enormous arrogance. The British government should point out the illogical sequence of items to be discussed.
“You cannot have a border agreement between Northern Ireland and Ireland without knowing what kind of trade or customs you will have. This is illogical.”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/878340/Brexit-news-UK-Germany-EU-Theresa-May-European-Union-Michel-Barnier-German-videoIf I don't reply to your post,
you're probably on my ignore list.0 -
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setmefree2 wrote: »As for a no confidence vote, I think the DUP have said they won't support a no deal Brexit.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4669453/dup-will-vote-against-no-deal-brexit-to-avoid-chaos-of-hard-border-between-ireland-and-northern-ireland-arlene-foster-vows/
So I think we would get another GE?
At what point would the government admit there is going to be no FTA? Won't the talks just drag out discussing everything other than trade until the penny drops that there is going to be no deal?
Varadkar's comments today might well make the DUP support May.Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you.0 -
No exactly staples people will have to adjust what they buy or pay more. I'm sure it's possible to sauce most vegetables outside EU. I wonder what Spanish farmers make of potentially losing a large market.
A lot of fruit and veg produced by Spain can be got from Morrocco.Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you.0 -
Obviously the EU are so concerned about holding the EU together they are not prepared to negotiate a deal that would be beneficial to both sides.
Eh?
The EU have always been crystal clear since well before the referendum that there can be no 'Europe a la carte', no 'cherry picking', and no 'have cake and eat it'.
The ways of dealing with the EU are well understood:
1. EU membership - full access to the single market and membership of the customs union, with a say in how the rules are set
2. EEA/EFTA membership - full access to the single market with customs union optional, and less influence over the rules
3. A trade deal - markedly inferior access to the single market compared to what we have now. No influence over the rules.
There are a range of existing mechanisms that could be simply and quickly negotiated, such as the EEA or EFTA, and those options are always on the table.
But if we want to have the maximum possible access to the single market, as we do today, we'll have to continue accepting the rules of that market, paying a contribution to the maintenance of that market, and respecting the four freedoms of that market.
If we choose to have markedly inferior access to the single market, versus what we have now, then we can restrict those freedoms, but we'll pay a heavier price than the EU will.
As that will come at a heavy cost to trade, the economy, and our standards of living... and compensating for those losses elsewhere will be at best difficult and risky and at worst impossible.
What we are not going to get, and there was never any prospect of us getting, was the delusional 'have cake and eat it' deal that the Brexiteers promised.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
I wouldn't expect full access to single market but that doesn't mean a deal somewhere between WTO rules and full membership that would be beneficial to both sides couldn't be reached.HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Eh?
The EU have always been crystal clear since well before the referendum that there can be no 'Europe a la carte', no 'cherry picking', and no 'have cake and eat it'.
The ways of dealing with the EU are well understood:
1. EU membership - full access to the single market and membership of the customs union, with a say in how the rules are set
2. EEA/EFTA membership - full access to the single market with customs union optional, and less influence over the rules
3. A trade deal - markedly inferior access to the single market compared to what we have now. No influence over the rules.
There are a range of existing mechanisms that could be simply and quickly negotiated, such as the EEA or EFTA, and those options are always on the table.
But if we want to have the maximum possible access to the single market, as we do today, we'll have to continue accepting the rules of that market, paying a contribution to the maintenance of that market, and respecting the four freedoms of that market.
If we choose to have markedly inferior access to the single market, versus what we have now, then we can restrict those freedoms, but we'll pay a heavier price than the EU will.
As that will come at a heavy cost to trade, the economy, and our standards of living... and compensating for those losses elsewhere will be at best difficult and risky and at worst impossible.
What we are not going to get, and there was never any prospect of us getting, was the delusional 'have cake and eat it' deal that the Brexiteers promised.0 -
I wouldn't expect full access to single market
A significant chunk of the UK economy is highly dependent on full and unrestricted access to the single market.
Don't forget we've spent the last 40 years touting ourselves around the world as the place to invest in building your EU manufacturing plants, HQ's, etc, as we are in the single market with no restrictions.
And we got hundreds of Billions of £ worth of inwards investment and huge amounts of job creation as a result.
Which is one of many reasons the govt are bricking it now....but that doesn't mean a deal somewhere between WTO rules and full membership that would be beneficial to both sides couldn't be reached.
It could, given enough time, that's the vastly inferior Canada style trade deal option and it usually takes 5-10 years to negotiate.
But that's simply not good enough for the UK - when such a large part of our economy is dependent on full and unrestricted single market membership.
So we'll end up with a transitional deal mirroring current arrangements for 'about' 2 years, which will then get extended for a few more years, and then at some point 5-10 years from now we'll either have sensibly decided to stay on in something that looks a lot like the EEA/EFTA (albeit maybe under another name), or we'll have ended up with a vastly inferior trade-only deal and the pressure will be building to rejoin the EU as the economy fails.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0
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