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    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 6th Oct 17, 11:55 AM
    • 35Posts
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    Magnum0121
    Claim Form - UK Car Park Management
    • #1
    • 6th Oct 17, 11:55 AM
    Claim Form - UK Car Park Management 6th Oct 17 at 11:55 AM
    Hello,
    A couple of weeks ago on the day I was meant to be going on holiday I received a letter before claim from Gladstones. Obviously there was no time to respond as I was catching a flight, so had to respond when I got back. I sent a robust response to the LBC but it was too late, the 14 days was up and they didn't mess around with the claim form!

    I've frantically read the newbies thread again and it says "small claim? Start a new thread please"
    I've registered with MCOL so I now have until the end of he month to sort this out but I'd rather nip it in the bud.

    The parking charge in question was for "breaching the terms of parking" on the land of a residential site.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Oct 17, 8:40 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    That's the point!

    It grants you rights and there is nothing there imposing any obligation or charge upon you.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 20th Oct 17, 7:13 AM
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    Magnum0121
    Second draft, removing the original point 1 in my original post and adding two points regarding the lease, whilst quoting the lease word for word.
    I would print out a copy of the lease in full to present to the Judge.


    1.a. There is no breach of contract as there is no offer of free parking. Jolson v Homeguard (2016) it was established that ParkingEye v Beavis (2015) does not apply to residential parking.
    1.b. If the wording of the signage forbids parking then there is no offer to park and therefore no contract. In PCM-UK v Bull et al (2016) residents were parking on access roads. The signage forbade parking therefore no contract was in place. A trespass had occurred, but that meant only the land owner could claim, not the parking company.
    1.c. In UKPC v Masterson (2016) it was also found that the signage was forbidding, so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.
    1.d. In Horizon Parking v Mr J it was also found that the signage was forbidding, so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.

    2.a. I was not the driver of the the vehicle at the time of the alleged contravention. The parking company are not relying on Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 therefore I am under no obligation to name the driver.
    2.b. Excel v Mr B - Sheffield (2016) the Judge made it clear that without proof of driver, and without invoking keeper liability, there was no claim against the keeper.

    3.a. My lease does not forbid parking, it only grants permission to park a road worth vehicle. There is no mention of a ban on parking on the roadway.
    "Covenants by the buyer.
    Parking:
    Not to use any car parking space for any purpose other than the parking of one private motor car or one private motorcycle which shall be in a roadworthy condition and shall exhibit a current road fund licence. "

    3.b. My lease grants the right to access my property via the roadway. Again, there is no mention of a parking ban for residents.
    "To pass with or without vehicles along the Estate roads and any other roads connecting thereto which are intended to be highways maintainable at the public expense to provide access and egress to and from the public highway and to pass with or without vehicles as appropriate over any of the vehicular access-ways comprised in the Common Parts for the purpose of access and egress from the property."
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Oct 17, 3:40 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    I would print out a copy of the lease in full to present to the Judge.
    You would, much later, at Witness Statement stage (each stage is in the NEWBIES thread post #2).

    Jolson v Homeguard (2016)
    should read:
    Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E (at Oxford County Court, on Appeal, decided by HHJ Charles Harris QC)
    Make this stronger:
    3.a. My lease does not forbid parking, indeed it only grants unfettered rights in the form of unequivocal permission to park a road worth vehicle.
    And read the NEWBIES thread post #2, to be ready for how to complete the next form, N180 (no to mediation, etc.).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 30th Oct 17, 12:43 PM
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    Magnum0121
    The defence was submitted by post last week.
    I now have a letter from Northampton acknowledging the defence.
    "The claimant may contact you directly to attempt to resolve any dispute...if the dispute cannot be resolved informally, the claimant will inform the court that he wishes to proceed..." etc
    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 2nd Dec 17, 9:53 AM
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    • 12 Thanks
    Magnum0121
    Hello,
    I have now received a letter from Gladstones.

    "We act for the claimant and have notified the court of our clients intention to proceed with the claim.
    Please find enclosed a copy of our clients completed directions questionnaire, which will be filed with the court upon their request. You will note we intend to request a special direction that the case be dealt with on the papers and without the need for an oral hearing.

    This request is sought simply because the matter is in our clients option relatively straightforward and the costs incurred by both parties for attending an oral hearing would be disproportionate. We trust you agree.

    You will note our client has elected not to mediate. Its decision is not meant to be in any way obstructive and is based purely on experience, as mediation has rarely proven beneficial in these types of. Notwithstanding this, our client would be happy to listen to any genuine payment proposals that you wish to put forward."

    The letter includes the N180 form.


    Thanks for any help with the next steps
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 2nd Dec 17, 10:29 AM
    • 18,400 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    Thanks for any help with the next steps
    All of the above (template) from Gladstone’s was totally predictable and I’m surprised you weren’t ready for it. It’s all detailed in bargepole’s walk-through in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2. It tells you how to deal with the N180. Please read it; everything should be covered in it.

    That sticky needs to be your ‘Bible’ as you proceed through this. There are deadlines to meet and various documents to produce. If you’re ahead of the curve, you will know what to expect and when, that way nothing will surprise you.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 2nd Dec 17, 2:24 PM
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    Magnum0121
    Sorry, I have just read it again 3 times and I can't see N180 mentioned and used the search function to try to find the term "N180" used in the thread
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 2nd Dec 17, 2:26 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    Directions questionnaire ? Allocations ? It!!!8217;s absolutely in there.
    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 4th Apr 18, 4:47 PM
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    Magnum0121
    Update on this case and a further question...

    I've been helping to deal with this for a family member. She received documents from Gladstones and signed a form to agree to have the hearing heard on paper. This was sent off.

    Court papers arrived not too long ago with a hearing date and a deadline for the claimant to pay £25 or the case would be struck off.
    Unfortunately they paid the £25 and the hearing is this month.

    My family member is pregnant and suffers with anxiety, hence the reason why she agreed to have the hearing heard on paper. This request was apparently ignored and the judge wants an actual hearing to take place.
    She does not want to attend court and to be honest I completely understand and wouldn't want to put her under any unnecessary stress.

    I know that the case itself would be informal etc, but it's really not an option.

    What options does she have in regards to attempting to settle out of court at this stage? Not turning up to the hearing would incur additional costs, so she doesn't want to just not turn up.

    Thanks for any help
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 4th Apr 18, 5:12 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    You can still have the hearing on papers. You just tell them at the Witness Statement stage giving 7 days notice prior to the hearing. Not turning up at court WITHOUT telling the court gets additional costs. Arranging beforehand saves costs.

    The setting of the hearing date is just a diary event - not a summons to attend court.

    As an aside, this is why they flood the courts with these claims. People get misled or mislead themselves.
    About me: Capricorn. Likes: Tight defences, the tighter the better. Lucidity. Dislikes: Loquaciousness and magic words. WLTM: Someone with the facts, a private income and their own copy of the White Book.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 4th Apr 18, 5:17 PM
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    Johnersh
    The problem is that advocacy in the absence of a party is a regulated legal activity. I don't think a judge will allow it.

    I propose you write to the judge asking special dispensation in the circumstances to speak on behalf of the absent family member (unlikely to be permitted) or in the alternative for directions for a hearing on the papers.

    A hearing on the papers isn't usually recommended on here but may be right for you. If you go for it, I hope your paperwork is in apple pie order. The claimant will almost certainly agree to dispense with the hearing to save costs.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 4th Apr 18, 5:53 PM
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    • 12 Thanks
    Magnum0121
    She phoned the court and was told that the "judge wanted the hearing to be heard in person" despite the form being signed agreeing for it to be heard on paper.

    If this was for myself I would go to the hearing, but in these circumstances she does not want to attend which is understandable.
    This whole thing has been incredibly stressful for her as it is and now that she's pregnant there's more at stake
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Apr 18, 6:12 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Which court?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 4th Apr 18, 6:21 PM
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    • 12 Thanks
    Magnum0121
    Romford county court, where the hearing will be
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Apr 18, 6:30 PM
    • 59,542 Posts
    • 72,713 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The charge was issued to the car when I was in the process of moving out from the owned flat into a house. The flat is still owned by me but I have tenants renting it. There are no visitors bays or anywhere to temporarily park whilst attempting to unload belongings or shopping.
    OK so the Defendant has a defence, using the Jopson case.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 05-04-2018 at 10:12 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 4th Apr 18, 6:51 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    She phoned the court and was told that the "judge wanted the hearing to be heard in person" despite the form being signed agreeing for it to be heard on paper.
    Very odd in that if she didn't phone the court, the message would not have been received. Are you sure there wasn't a misunderstanding. Was there an explicit request for her to attend or is this just an interpretation of the standard paragraphs.
    About me: Capricorn. Likes: Tight defences, the tighter the better. Lucidity. Dislikes: Loquaciousness and magic words. WLTM: Someone with the facts, a private income and their own copy of the White Book.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 4th Apr 18, 8:57 PM
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    • 2,127 Thanks
    Johnersh
    This was why i recommended writing to the Court (as in the DJ him/herself).

    I do wonder whether a court clerk has just looked at the file when the phone call was made, has noted the original direction which displaced a written hearing for the oral one and assumed that it is writ in stone.

    A letter would allow the o/p's family member to perhaps enclose a GP letter* if the defendant can put together good medical reasons as supposed to the general concerns that most experience in going to court (if I can put it in those terms - i'm not making light of the issues).

    *I have also assumed the GP is friendly and not wanting to charge you £50 for the letter!
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Apr 18, 5:09 AM
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    IamEmanresu
    With Johnersh on this one. It is not standard so requires some checking rather than a) dropping out or worse b) going along when they are not up to it.
    About me: Capricorn. Likes: Tight defences, the tighter the better. Lucidity. Dislikes: Loquaciousness and magic words. WLTM: Someone with the facts, a private income and their own copy of the White Book.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Apr 18, 9:46 AM
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    Umkomaas
    *I have also assumed the GP is friendly and not wanting to charge you £50 for the letter!
    A bit like a friendly solicitor.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Magnum0121
    • By Magnum0121 5th Apr 18, 12:33 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Magnum0121
    Thanks for the comments.
    I may be going down the route of representation on the defendants behalf to avoid her going to court, but to also get the best chance as being heard on paper may reduce the chances of a win.

    Now at the WS stage...
    I have printed off the full copy of the lease and the relevant case transcripts as mentioned.
    Unfortunately cannot find the Excel v Mr B one!

    We only have until next Thursday to submit the witness statement
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