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    • ry7832
    • By ry7832 21st Sep 17, 4:49 PM
    • 6Posts
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    ry7832
    Unaware of CCJ after PCN from ParkingEye, Aug 2015
    • #1
    • 21st Sep 17, 4:49 PM
    Unaware of CCJ after PCN from ParkingEye, Aug 2015 21st Sep 17 at 4:49 PM
    I am well aware that this story is one that has no doubt been told numerous time on this forum, but as I hope members can appreciate, each tale has it's own set of unique circumstances.

    Recently I checked my credit file and to my horror discovered a CCJ to the value of £197. This all relates to an unpaid PCN to the value of £100 from August 2015. I did not receive any notification of this particular PCN and I certainly did not know about the CCJ due to moving addresses before it was issued, therefore preventing me from defending it at the time.

    ParkingEye claim that four letters were issued to the address provided by the DVLA (which I had moved out of in March 2015). As no response was received to the letters issued, they claim they attempted contacted me further at an alternative address provided by a Credit Reference Agency, with the notice of CCJ being dated 17/03/2016 (I moved out of this second property in February 2016)

    I have strong reason to believe that this PCN should never have been issued as I was a paying customer of the establishment (which I have proof of in my bank statement) and at the time of purchase I was asked by staff to pass over my registration number for them to mark me exempt from parking restrictions.

    I contacted the manager of the branch in question and throughout our correspondence she confirmed in writing, that I should never have received the fine at all.
    The manager of Starbucks has attempted to contact ParkingEye but with no response (I can imagine this is due to the fact that the manager is not defendant in question and the case has progressed to the county court system).

    Unfortunately I am unable to speak to a person at ParkingEye due to their automated system, so instead have filed an online appeal via their website. In ParkingEye’s response, they seem to be unwilling to help in this situation.
    They seems to focus solely upon the fact that they sent numerous letters, which I did not receive due to moving house during this period.

    My question are;
    Are the circumstances and evidence mentioned above sufficient to form a credible defence if I was to complete a N244, application to set the CCJ aside?
    > Will the fact that I have not updated my address with DVLA count against me? Will it be enough for a judge to say I was at fault?
    > Is a there an online resource that I can use to assist in the completion of the N244 Application.


    Thanks in advance for any help/guidance received.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 21st Sep 17, 5:03 PM
    • 35,917 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 17, 5:03 PM
    • #2
    • 21st Sep 17, 5:03 PM
    Yes you have grounds to apply for a set aside as you knew nothing about the case.

    You do need to read up on defending a court claim to see how a defence is constructed

    Search here for set aside to see the process explained
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Sep 17, 12:30 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 17, 12:30 AM
    • #3
    • 22nd Sep 17, 12:30 AM
    I've already replied to you on pepipoo:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115890

    So, crack on, decide whether you want a ''with consent'' set aside or one where you don't pay off PE and just ask the court to wipe the CCJ, so you can defend. All explained in the NEWBIES FAQS thread here.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ry7832
    • By ry7832 6th Mar 18, 9:54 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ry7832
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 9:54 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 18, 9:54 PM
    After submitting the N244 back in October last year, today (3 weeks ahead of court hearing) I finally received communication from Parking Eye.

    They emailed stating:

    "As ParkingEye did not receive a response to 4 items of correspondence sent to you at the address provided by the DVLA, ParkingEye contacted a credit referencing agency to verify your last known address. The credit reference agency subsequently provided an alternative address for you, and a further 2 items of correspondence were sent to this address also.
    ParkingEye submit that the application has not been made promptly and that the lateness of the application should be found to be fatal to the application pursuant to CPR 13.3(2). ParkingEye can confirm that Judgment was entered on or around 19th April 2016, but that the application is dated 8th October 2017.

    In the case of Regency Rolls Ltd & Anor v Carnall [2000] EWCA Civ 379, LJ Simon Brown stated;
    “I would accordingly construe “promptly” here to require, not that the applicant has been guilty of no needless delay whatsoever, but rather that he has acted with all reasonable celerity in the circumstances. That said, I too would regard the applicant here as having failed even in that obligation. 30 days was altogether too long a delay.
    The delay in bringing this application amounts to 1 year and 6 months and ParkingEye submits that this application can in no way be considered to have been dealt with promptly. Given the above, it is ParkingEye’s position that setting aside the judgment would be disproportionate and that you could potentially incur further costs in taking this matter to a final hearing with little chance of success.

    Notwithstanding the above, ParkingEye is willing to consent to the setting aside of the judgment in default given the evidence provided, predicated upon both parties agreeing to bear their own costs.
    Now at first this seemed a good outcome, but the sceptic in me questions the following;

    • Why if they are so sure that I have little chance of success, offer to set aside by consent?
    • Is this a tactic they usually employ at this late stage of the process, so close to the hearing
    • What is the best course of action at this point to ensure that the order is indeed set aside, do I contact the court or respond directly to PE?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 10:03 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:03 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:03 PM
    Hmmm...this puts you immediately out of pocket by £255 (the set aside fee).

    Whereas you have evidence that there should never have been a PCN at all:

    I have strong reason to believe that this PCN should never have been issued as I was a paying customer of the establishment (which I have proof of in my bank statement) and at the time of purchase I was asked by staff to pass over my registration number for them to mark me exempt from parking restrictions.

    I contacted the manager of the branch in question and throughout our correspondence she confirmed in writing, that I should never have received the fine at all.
    The manager of Starbucks has attempted to contact ParkingEye but with no response (I can imagine this is due to the fact that the manager is not defendant in question and the case has progressed to the county court system).
    Sounds like PE realise they had no case in the first place. Sounds promising for you.

    Get proof of all that in WRITING from Starbucks, and I would press onto the set aside hearing, as long as you are well versed in also explaining that you did 'act immediately' as soon as you were aware of the CCJ, which was only in September 2017.

    So you acted within (2 weeks?) of finding out which is certainly reasonable.

    Also ask the Judge at the set aside hearing to make an order that PE have to pay your costs for the set aside (fee, plus your attendance costs, missed leave/salary) either immediately or if they discontinue after the CCJ is set aside.

    Have they marked that letter 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE, SAVE AS TO COSTS'?

    If they have NOT, you can use the letter in court, to show they admit they essentially have no case, and are willing to set aside and have asked for NO payment of any charge - i.e. it is clear they are backing down and are just trying to tarnish you with the ''too late'' brush, which is unfair and untrue as you acted immediately you learned of the CCJ!

    If they have, you can't show it in court, except at the end when costs are discussed but you should be asking for your £255 refunded. Don't forget to ask about that cost, you need to Judge to make an order about it, or reserve costs until a substantive hearing (and I think PE will then discontinue).

    Take along the articles from Government/court service from 2017 about unfair CCJs, where IIRC, ParkingEye were specifically named and shamed as one of the worst culprits.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 06-03-2018 at 10:09 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ry7832
    • By ry7832 6th Mar 18, 10:41 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ry7832
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:41 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:41 PM
    Thanks CouponMad for your response it's very much appreciated.

    I completely agree with you, if they felt we had no chance why would they offer us the chance to put this CCJ aside.

    As much as a huge part of me wants to continue with this to court, I have to be aware that if for whatever reason I were to lose, that would leave me with another 4 years of bad credit and no chance of getting a mortgage and this is something that is really important to me at this stage of my life.

    I really want to take down Parking Eye, but there is always that chance that I get a judge who looks unfavourably at the fact that my addresses hadn't been changed at the time due to moving etc.

    I'm still thinking about this, but what would be the procedure I would need to follow be if I were to agree to this setting aside order?

    Parking Eye have asked me to sign a consent order form and send it back to them. What I'm wondering is if I need to send my own copy of this to the court? It doesn't seem quite right for me to give my trust to Parking Eye.

    Thanks so much,

    Hugely appreciate your help!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
    • 58,563 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 18, 10:51 PM
    I have to be aware that if for whatever reason I were to lose, that would leave me with another 4 years of bad credit
    What, you mean if it's not set aside? Parking ones normally are agreed (only recall 2 not set aside and one is being appealed). I would press ahead and go armed with everything to convince a Judge that:

    - there should have been no PCN in the first place.

    - the retailer has tried contacting PE and you have evidence that you didn't breach any term.

    - PE have all but admitted the error in their correspondence (use it, unless it's marked WP).

    - you were 'there to be found' (not hiding or avoiding liability) at your new address, and PE have used Tracing agents for years, so why didn't they bother?

    - Sir Oliver Heald's press release about unknown CCJs, which named culprit parking firms.

    - show that you acted as soon as you discovered the CCJ.

    - show evidence of your losses (flight cost and loss of leave, travel, parking, and the £255 fee) and ask before you leave the room, for an order for costs to be paid by PE, either now, or after they discontinue.


    If you really can't face it (but if your local court is Manchester or Skipton, you really should!) then re this question:
    I'm still thinking about this, but what would be the procedure I would need to follow be if I were to agree to this setting aside order?

    Parking Eye have asked me to sign a consent order form and send it back to them. What I'm wondering is if I need to send my own copy of this to the court? It doesn't seem quite right for me to give my trust to Parking Eye.
    ...simply search this forum for 'ParkingEye consent order set aside' to read one walked through earlier.

    On this forum nothing is a new question, we've seen it before and you can search & find anything you want if you do what I do, and always change the search default to SHOW POSTS (never wade through 'show threads'!!).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Mar 18, 11:00 PM
    • 35,917 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:00 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:00 PM

    As much as a huge part of me wants to continue with this to court, I have to be aware that if for whatever reason I were to lose, that would leave me with another 4 years of bad credit and no chance of getting a mortgage and this is something that is really important to me at this stage of my life......!
    Originally posted by ry7832
    The only way for you to get your credit record cleaned (and a mortgage) is to get the ccj set aside. That expunges it from the records

    The alternative you seem to be alluding to is to pay them. This won't help getting a mortgage etc!! The ccj would remain on your record for the 4 years, (just marked as paid)
    • ry7832
    • By ry7832 6th Mar 18, 11:29 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ry7832
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:29 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Mar 18, 11:29 PM
    Coupon-Mad, yes the email begins with
    Without Prejudice (SAVES AS TO COSTS)


    What, you mean if it's not set aside?
    To my knowledge and understanding,(please correct me if I'm wrong) if I was to emerge from the hearing having had it not go my way. I would have to pay the fine+costs (£197) and although the CCJ would be marked as 'satisfied' on my credit file, it still would be visible and have a negative affect upon my score, albeit slightly less that it remaining in default.

    Parking ones normally are agreed (only recall 2 not set aside and one is being appealed)
    Sorry, are you able to elaborate and explain what you mean?

    If you really can't face it (but if your local court is Manchester or Skipton, you really should!)
    The alternative you seem to be alluding to is to pay them. This won't help getting a mortgage etc!! The ccj would remain on your record for the 4 years, (just marked as paid)
    My local court is Watford. I certainly have no intention to pay PE. But am I still liable to pay the £197 (£100fine+£97costs) in order to set it aside by consent?

    Written on the consent order form sent by PE is the following:

    Upon the Defendant informing the Claimant that they did not receive the Claim Form and it appearing that staff at Starbucks failed to register the Defendant’s vehicle for a parking permit on the date of the parking event;
    BY CONSENT IT IS ORDERED THAT:
    1. The Judgment entered against the Defendant on 19th April 2016 is hereby set aside.
    2. The claim is dismissed.
    3. There shall be no order as to costs.



    Thanks again
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Mar 18, 12:11 AM
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    • 72,074 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Parking ones normally are agreed (only recall 2 not set aside and one is being appealed)
    Sorry, are you able to elaborate and explain what you mean?
    I mean set asides are generally difficult where debts are concerned (e.g. utility bills, unpaid mail order, etc.). But on this forum we find the generally EASY to persuade a Judge to set aside, re parking firms, where there is no clear cut debt, and as long as you can show you acted as soon as you knew, and that you did not receive the claim in 2016, and why, and that you have good chances of success in defending this claim - then the CCJ should indeed be set aside as we almost always see happen.

    Not guaranteed, but close to invariably, these are set aside.

    I mean I can only recall TWO where the Judge said no, one Judge was plainly an idiot, and the other Judge was in a case where the refusal is now being appealed because it was wrong. And that's out of hundreds seen here in the past couple of years, all the others set aside without quibble by Judges.

    But am I still liable to pay the £197 (£100fine+£97costs) in order to set it aside by consent?
    Usually yes, but not according to PE's offer. Personally I would NOT take it...they've made it crystal clear they are clutching ONLY at the straw that they say you didn't act quickly, but in fact, you did.

    Can you get it in writing from Starbucks that their staff failed to register the vehicle for the permit?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 07-03-2018 at 12:14 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Mar 18, 12:51 AM
    • 7,728 Posts
    • 7,480 Thanks
    KeithP
    I contacted the manager of the branch in question and throughout our correspondence she confirmed in writing, that I should never have received the fine at all.
    The manager of Starbucks has attempted to contact ParkingEye but with no response (I can imagine this is due to the fact that the manager is not defendant in question and the case has progressed to the county court system).
    Originally posted by ry7832
    Do you still have that correspondence?
    .
    • ry7832
    • By ry7832 2nd Apr 18, 12:14 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    ry7832
    Update 01/04/2018
    After over six months it seems like this whole thing is coming to an end.


    In an attempt to speed up the process I agreed to sign the Tomlin Order, which was co-signed and sent to Watford County Court. The court confirmed receipt of the order but due to PE not paying £100 to have a judge review it outside of court, the court hearing was still scheduled to take place. Therefore the timeline of was never shortened.

    I attended the arranged court hearing, PE did not. As the Tomlin Order was mutually signed the judge noted that she was surprised to see me there, but there was no chance I'd leave proceeding to chance on the day.
    The Judgement has now been set aside, the PCN dismissed and there will be no further charge.

    I hope these are my final few questions...

    > Now that the judge has set the judgement aside, what is the procedure to clearing my credit file?

    >I was told to await a court sealed confirmation in the post, how long should this take?

    > I've read that the court can 'take their time' when it comes to notifying the Registry Trust, am I better contacting the Equifax, Callcredit and Experian myself?
    Last edited by ry7832; 02-04-2018 at 12:27 AM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 2nd Apr 18, 11:26 AM
    • 35,917 Posts
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    Quentin
    1) It will be done automatically


    2) Days


    3) They won't take it from you. The court need to inform Registry trust. The cras take up to a month to alter files after it cascades down to them from RT
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 2nd Apr 18, 12:00 PM
    • 9,520 Posts
    • 9,299 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Apr 18, 1:19 AM
    • 58,563 Posts
    • 72,074 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The Judgement has now been set aside, the PCN dismissed and there will be no further charge.
    That's brilliant news!

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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