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  • FIRST POST
    • kdeebee
    • By kdeebee 20th Sep 17, 3:52 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 1Thanks
    kdeebee
    Delivery mileage issue
    • #1
    • 20th Sep 17, 3:52 PM
    Delivery mileage issue 20th Sep 17 at 3:52 PM
    We ordered a new Golf GTE.

    The VW dealer tells us that having up to 50 miles on the meter is normal. Now, the dealer called and they have been using our car "by mistake" for test drives and it has racked up 298 miles.

    At 50 miles / hour, that's 6 full hours of driving.

    They have called and mentioned that we can either (1) refuse the car and wait for a new one or (2) take it and they will offer a free dinner in a local restaurant or so.

    They also cannot say if our number plates were used or the dealer number plates were used during the test drives... he just doesn't know he says.

    I have been told that it's important to treat the car well the first few hundred miles. So I am worried they have been pushing the car during those test drives.

    They basically want us to pay a new price for a (kinda) demo model.

    What do you think we should do? Refuse car? Or accept but what is an acceptable compensation? It's a 30,000 car.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    ----
    UPDATE: They offered paint protection (typically worth 350 apparently). I will refuse the car if this is all they do. We also went in to sign lease documents and "they had checked all the numbers, we just had to sign." Fortunately, I checked the numbers against the numbers from their quote (using my phone at the dealer) and there was a difference of 575. Basically, the car came with extra options "by mistake" and they just added them to the price in the lease... even though we hadn't asked for them in the first place. Most people probably wouldn't bother double checking I guess. When we confronted them, it was "a typo" and they corrected it.
    Last edited by kdeebee; 20-09-2017 at 8:15 PM. Reason: Update
Page 2
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 21st Sep 17, 12:03 PM
    • 13,509 Posts
    • 10,098 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Deivery mileage is generally accepted as being less than 1000 miles.
    Originally posted by footyguy
    In who's world? Sorry but I don't think anyone would accept a new car with a 1000 miles on the clock.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Sep 17, 12:05 PM
    • 4,133 Posts
    • 1,676 Thanks
    footyguy
    I think it's more the fact the dealer has admitted it's been used for test drives, and the mileage wasn't due to the delivery/manufacturer process.

    It could have potentially had 100 random punters taking it "round the block". Or worse, someone could have had it for the weekend.
    Originally posted by Herzlos
    Of I missed that. It must have been the highlighting

    It would be very strange for a dealer to make such an admission. It's actually a used car now then.
    All use of the company trade plates must be recorded (as there is an obligation to to disclose to the authorities on request who was driving a car on the public road, and if it was on trade plates, that would be the VRN given)

    Anyway, the OP can tell if the vehicle was used on the actual number plate now assigned to the vehicle by double checking the date of registration.

    Save for the open admission by the dealership, the most likely use of a car by the dealership would be as a demonstrator, and would be sold that way.
    Most 'demonstrator' vehicles are actually just personal vehicles of one of the sales staff ... which may also be used on the odd occassion for a customer who wants a test drive of one.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Sep 17, 12:06 PM
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    footyguy
    In who's world? ...
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    In the world of the motor industy, including most importantly the manufacturers

    Sorry but I don't think anyone would accept a new car with a 1000 miles on the clock.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    You'd be surprised.
    But where there are doubts a customer would accept such a vehicle, I have mentioned how that can be avoided ... particularly where an unscrupulous dealer is involved.
    (I've even know the odd manufacturer to consider likewise when a vehicle has accumulated lots of miles before it even leaves the factory gates, as they are aware it is somethimes necessary for the dealerships to put quite a few miles on a car.
    If a car only has a couple of miles on the clock at pick up, you need to question also how the PDI was done correctly by the dealership)
    Last edited by footyguy; 21-09-2017 at 12:11 PM.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 21st Sep 17, 12:07 PM
    • 13,509 Posts
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    neilmcl
    In the world of the motor industy
    Originally posted by footyguy
    Do you want to back that up with some evidence?

    There is absolutely no way a customer or even a court would accept a car with a 1000 miles on the clock as new.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Sep 17, 12:15 PM
    • 4,133 Posts
    • 1,676 Thanks
    footyguy
    Do you want to back that up with some evidence?

    There is absolutely no way a customer or even a court would accept a car with a 1000 miles on the clock as new.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Do you have any evidence of any court case where the court found in favour of a complainant who complained that the vehicle was not new as it had delivery mileage of <1000 miles???
    (and the absence of any other evidence such as a dealership admitteing, as apparently they have in this case, that the vehicel was previously been used "by mistake" for test drives" by others)

    Can I ask what experience you have of working in the motor industry, in particular the manufacturing side?
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 21st Sep 17, 12:17 PM
    • 13,509 Posts
    • 10,098 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Do you have any evidence of any court case where the court found in favour of a complainant who complained that the vehicle was not new as it had delivery mileage of <1000 miles???
    (and the absence of any other evidence such as a dealership admitteing, as apparently they have in this case, that the vehicel was previously been used "by mistake" for test drives" by others)

    Can I ask what experience you have of working in the motor industry, in particular the manufacturing side?
    Originally posted by footyguy
    So you can't show that it's industry standard then, you just made it up then
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Sep 17, 12:19 PM
    • 4,133 Posts
    • 1,676 Thanks
    footyguy
    So you can't show that it's industry standard then, you just made it up then
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    No it's not an industry standard; it's accepted working practise.

    So I take it you have no experience at all., but just want to cause an arguement?

    Well not with me you won't. Good luck!
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 21st Sep 17, 12:20 PM
    • 11,189 Posts
    • 12,754 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    UPDATE: They offered paint protection (typically worth 350 apparently).
    Originally posted by kdeebee

    Paint protection may cost in the region of 350 but in reality it's only worth a fraction of this.
    One of the common paint protections offered is Diamondbrite and you can buy bottles of this polish for about 8-10 and the garage will pay far less than this.
    Once they have paid someone a few pounds to apply it, the remainder of the 350 makes a nice profit for the garage and a good commission for the salesperson.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 21st Sep 17, 12:22 PM
    • 13,509 Posts
    • 10,098 Thanks
    neilmcl
    So I take it you have no experience at all., but just want to cause an arguement?

    Well not with me you won't. Good luck!
    Originally posted by footyguy
    You were the one who has come out with such a ridiculous statement that you can't back up. There's no argument and I'm pretty sure everyone else can see how weak your statement was.

    Of course there'd be no evidence of a court case because someone getting a new car with a 1000 miles on the clock and expecting to accept it simply doesn't happen.

    Edit: I notice that you're backtracking now by editing your previous posts.
    Last edited by neilmcl; 21-09-2017 at 12:25 PM.
    • Glover1862
    • By Glover1862 21st Sep 17, 12:26 PM
    • 295 Posts
    • 141 Thanks
    Glover1862
    If it's leased I wouldn't worry too much, get what you can or do you mean pcp and you might want to but it?

    Lease is just longer term rental, you could ask for the excess mileage charge, but 295 miles will be 29.50 if its approximately 10p per mile. I certainly wouldn't be rejecting it if I waited to get it, the whole point of leasing is you don't worry too much about these things.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Sep 17, 12:43 PM
    • 4,133 Posts
    • 1,676 Thanks
    footyguy
    If it's leased I wouldn't worry too much, get what you can or do you mean pcp and you might want to but it?

    Lease is just longer term rental, you could ask for the excess mileage charge, but 295 miles will be 29.50 if its approximately 10p per mile. I certainly wouldn't be rejecting it if I waited to get it, the whole point of leasing is you don't worry too much about these things.
    Originally posted by Glover1862
    In addition, the delivery mileage should be recorded correctly on the invoice/lease agreement.

    I'm not too sure of the exact terms that apply in such finance agreements, but would have thought the mileage referred to was that covered during the course of the agreement, not what the vehicle had done before the agreement commenced.

    The OP would do well to carefully check the terms they agree to if they think the extra miles may be important.

    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 21st Sep 17, 12:55 PM
    • 3,444 Posts
    • 4,633 Thanks
    George Michael
    Deivery mileage is generally accepted as being less than 1000 miles.
    Originally posted by footyguy
    In who's world? Sorry but I don't think anyone would accept a new car with a 1000 miles on the clock.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    In the world of the motor industy, including most importantly the manufacturers
    Originally posted by footyguy
    This part of the motor industry?
    http://www.perrys.co.uk/car-news/buyers-guides/delivery-mileage-mean/
    A rule of thumb is that anything under 200 miles can be classed as an acceptable delivery mileage for a new car, allowing enough capacity to transport the car from the shipping port or between showrooms.
    Or this part of the motor industry?
    https://www.sandicliffe.co.uk/delivery-mileage-cars
    The mileage on the clock will be relatively low usually around 100 miles which will have been covered from the manufacturer to a Sandicliffe dealership.
    Or this one?
    http://www.pentagon-group.co.uk/offers/event/new-cars-pre-registered-in-stock
    It will have delivery miles only (usually under 50) and will come with the balance of the manufacturers full warranty
    In fact, despite looking, I couldn't find a single dealer who has a vehicle with close to 1000 miles on it that is advertised as having delivery mileage.
    • ukmike
    • By ukmike 21st Sep 17, 1:03 PM
    • 712 Posts
    • 366 Thanks
    ukmike
    The dealer could of plugged in a laptop & turned back the milage in minutes.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Sep 17, 1:13 PM
    • 4,133 Posts
    • 1,676 Thanks
    footyguy
    This part of the motor industry?
    http://www.perrys.co.uk/car-news/buyers-guides/delivery-mileage-mean/

    Or this part of the motor industry?
    https://www.sandicliffe.co.uk/delivery-mileage-cars

    Or this one?
    http://www.pentagon-group.co.uk/offers/event/new-cars-pre-registered-in-stock

    In fact, despite looking, I couldn't find a single dealer who has a vehicle with close to 1000 miles on it that is advertised as having delivery mileage.
    Originally posted by George Michael
    Yes, that's rght "as close to 0 as possible"

    So tell me, how do you think conformity tests are obtained
    e.g. for fuel consumption, emissions, etc?

    Now there is a requirement for real-world economy figures too (not just certification, but ongoing production checks) the situation will only get worse.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 21st Sep 17, 1:17 PM
    • 4,133 Posts
    • 1,676 Thanks
    footyguy
    The dealer could of plugged in a laptop & turned back the milage in minutes.
    Originally posted by ukmike
    Really? If it were that easy, all news cars would be sold with zero recorded mileage.
    And 'clocking' would not be a thing of the past by unscrupulous second hand car dealers - or even private sellers.

    Sadly not only would that be illegal, but it's actually not physically possible once the odometer passes a certain low level.

    (It's allowed so that resetting of odometers is possible by the cluster manufacturer who may add a few miles during end of line testing of the cluster itself, before it is actually fitted to the vehicle - so it's then reset before shipping of to the car manufacturer)
    • kdeebee
    • By kdeebee 21st Sep 17, 1:20 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    kdeebee
    Factory Build
    The Golf GTE is a factory build. We have been waiting 2-3 months.
    • m0bov
    • By m0bov 21st Sep 17, 1:35 PM
    • 1,641 Posts
    • 1,056 Thanks
    m0bov
    Ask for courtesy car whilst you wait for your "brand new" car to be reordered. Wonder how many people have been ragging your GTE,
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 21st Sep 17, 1:36 PM
    • 11,622 Posts
    • 6,535 Thanks
    Strider590
    UPDATE: They offered paint protection (typically worth 350 apparently)..
    Originally posted by kdeebee


    40 tops, this all singing all dancing superquadraspaz paint protection is just another "option" they sell to make up the salesmans commission

    They've basically used your car as a runaround or they're trying to shift their demo car, either way they're being about as honest as...... Well...... A car dealer.
    I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.

    <><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/
    • MataNui
    • By MataNui 21st Sep 17, 1:37 PM
    • 1,052 Posts
    • 600 Thanks
    MataNui
    The Golf GTE is a factory build. We have been waiting 2-3 months.
    Originally posted by kdeebee
    Looks like you will be waiting another 2-3 now.

    Dont accept this one, even if it is only a lease. I have been looking at 'nearly new' cars recently (though in the end went for a older higher model) and was seeing a fair few with < 100 miles. These came in thousands cheaper than the lease quotes i was getting for new ones.

    If these clowns expect you to pay full price for that one then they are having a laugh. And yes its only a lease but your payments are based on it being worth full value when you pick it up. If they advertised it as 'nearly new' its worth several k less than what they are basing your monthly payments on.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 21st Sep 17, 1:43 PM
    • 10,287 Posts
    • 9,874 Thanks
    Herzlos
    I'd expect delivery miles to be under 50, with anything else needing to be discounted as ex-demo or pre-registered. The 2 pre-regs we looked at 6 and 17 miles on them, for instance, and a discount of about 20% under the brokers prices. I'd be expecting something like 20-30% off list price or I'd walk away and buy it next week when it's on the forecourt as a pre-reg.

    So tell me, how do you think conformity tests are obtained
    e.g. for fuel consumption, emissions, etc?
    Originally posted by footyguy
    In the factory? It's normally done before the odo is connected and doesn't add to the mileage.

    By an external company? They'll take 1 or 2 cars from a run, stick a load of miles on them, and the car company will treat them as used.
    Last edited by Herzlos; 21-09-2017 at 1:47 PM.
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