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  • FIRST POST
    • savvysearcher
    • By savvysearcher 17th Sep 17, 7:19 PM
    • 24Posts
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    savvysearcher
    BMW timing chain snapped
    • #1
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:19 PM
    BMW timing chain snapped 17th Sep 17 at 7:19 PM
    Hi, in need of some advice from all you fellow motorists. My wife has a BMW 1-Series 61 plate, diesel, 80K mileage. Last week the timing chain (aka Cam belt) broke without any prior warning/noise while the car was in motion. The car was towed to a nearby independent garage. The car is out of warranty hence i figured the independent garage repair bill would be far less than taking it to BMW. However as expected still a hefty garage bill to repair the damage to the engine, valves and a new chain. Question I have is that the car has been serviced regularly by BMW (last full service Dec 2016 and no issues with timing chain noted) can BMW be held liable for the repair or funding part of the repair given if it was checked then the wear of the chain may have been spotted and replacement advised. I rang BMW and cited that at the December full service was the Timing Chain checked? Response given the chain is expected to run the life of the car despite mileage or years and they do not check the chain on a service unless there is a reason to. I find it difficult to understand why the timing chain is not checked at full services given the crucial part it plays and extensive damage it can cause when it snaps. Currently the car is being repaired and I am wondering if its worth my while pursuing this with BMW - suggestions welcome please, thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • ratrace
    • By ratrace 17th Sep 17, 7:44 PM
    • 552 Posts
    • 371 Thanks
    ratrace
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:44 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:44 PM
    Its quite a common problem im afraid if you google it, its all over the forums, how much is the repair costing you via the garage

    they dont check the chain for a number of reasons, first of all its not part of the service unlike cambelts that have to be replaced at a specified time
    Last edited by ratrace; 17-09-2017 at 7:48 PM.
    People are caught up in an egotistic artificial rat race to display a false image to society. We want the biggest house, fanciest car, and we don't mind paying the sky high mortgage to put up that show. We sacrifice our biggest assets our health and time, We feel happy when we see people look up to us and see how successful we are”

    Rat Race
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 17th Sep 17, 7:48 PM
    • 1,171 Posts
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    sevenhills
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:48 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:48 PM
    I find it difficult to understand why the timing chain is not checked at full services given the crucial part it plays and extensive damage it can cause when it snaps. Currently the car is being repaired and I am wondering if its worth my while pursuing this with BMW - suggestions welcome please, thanks in advance.
    Originally posted by savvysearcher
    I am not familiar with your vehicle, but most timing belts cannot be seen with dismantling numerous engine parts; they don't check the timing belt - just replace them at specific intervals.
    Timing chains are likely to be the same.

    • angrycrow
    • By angrycrow 17th Sep 17, 7:58 PM
    • 497 Posts
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    angrycrow
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:58 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:58 PM
    Google Bmw n47 timing chain failure, you are not alone.

    If you have full Bmw service history they may contribute to a repair made by Bmw. If the service history is not from Bmw they are unlikely to assist. The chain is at the rear of the engine so the engine needs to come out for the repair.
    • jk0
    • By jk0 17th Sep 17, 7:58 PM
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    jk0
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:58 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Sep 17, 7:58 PM
    I had a Saab 99GL with a timing chain. It started making a noise when it needed changing, around every 50,000 miles if I recall.

    I guess lady drivers aren't so tuned in to the sound of the engine, so maybe would not notice this.

    However, I do think it's bad that BMW don't have a service interval for it. Maybe write to head office in Germany about your experience. (I doubt you'll get any joy or compensation from BMW UK.)
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 17th Sep 17, 8:05 PM
    • 4,318 Posts
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    Iceweasel
    • #6
    • 17th Sep 17, 8:05 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Sep 17, 8:05 PM
    This is a BMW n47 engine - yes?

    It's a big job which entails the engine out and not only the timing chain, guides and tensioner replaced, but the crankshaft too as the chain sprocket is an integral part of the crankshaft.

    You went about this entirely the wrong way by going to a an independent garage and IMHO there is little or nothing you can do now to correct your mistake.

    With a full BMW service history you should have taken it to a BMW dealer where the engine repair would either have been free or heavily subsidised. Your independnt garage surely knew that it was a known problem

    It's a known fault which has a BMW PuMA procedure Measure 43863106 Nr 1 to 16 for the dealership workshop to follow.

    PuMA = Product & Measures Management in After-sales

    The problem is of course best dealt with before the chain breaks but BMW have still forked out for many repairs.

    Here it is:


    PuMA

    Consult measure M

    No measurement Theme

    43863106-09 N47, N47S, N47T, grinding noise in the engine, the timing chain scrapes

    Validation date (dd / mm / yy) Current Status Affiliate

    Validated 14/12/12 FR, VP

    Vehicles involved

    Series E Motor Body

    E60 E61 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47S N47DKO N47T

    E84 E87 E88 E90 E91

    E92 E93 F10 F11 F20

    F25 F30 F31

    Production period (beyond) Comment period Return info (all cases

    (Dd / mrn / yy) production until) (dd / mnn / yy) /

    Complaint

    Engine noise and friction scraping type from 1500 rev / min, perceptible in the cockpit. The noise is noticeable on the gearbox housing or the oil pan.

    Cause

    Sharp edges of the sprockets or the chain does not move regularly on the slides.

    Important measure:

    before starting the repair, ensure the availability of essential items!

    It is necessary to distinguish between three cases:

    Case 1:

    for motors N47, N47DKO, N47S, production period from 01.03.2007 to 05.01.2009.

    In case of customer complaint, replace the following components:

    - 11 21 7 803 479 replacement crankshaft with bearing shells.

    Note: Use crankshafts produced after 5. 1. 2009!

    The production date stamped on the crankshaft sprocket (see Appendix, page 1.)

    Meaning of numbers

    - The first two digits indicate the production line.

    - The six digits indicate the year (two digits), month, and day.

    - The last five digits are the serial number of the crankshaft. The crankshaft shown on page 1 of the Annex has been made October 21, 2009.

    - 11 41 7 797 896 chain drive of the oil pump.

    - 11 31 8 506 652 chain below.

    - 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket drive the oil pump.

    - 11 27 7 800 523 gear (intermediate gear for balancing shafts).

    - 11 27 7 802 575 pinion (drive shaft balancing).

    - 11 27 7 802 576 pinion (drive shaft balancing).

    - 11 31 8 510 014 upper chain.

    - 11 31 7 797 899 guide rail for upper timing chain.

    - 13 52 8 573 158 guide rail for timing chain lower

    - 13 52 8 573 159 rail for timing chain tensioner below.

    Note: the lower chain, use only the rails and tensioners guidageamortis! (See Appendix, page 2)

    For greater supply chain, use only the rail without reinforcements! (See Appendix, page 3)

    Note: according tune and repair instructions for the idler lesarbres balancing!

    If the idler gear and balancer shafts are set incorrectly, the engine can produce a crankshaft with nine bruitsmême, etc.. View manual repair 11 21 500 "replacement of the crankshaft."

    Note: On vehicles on which the crankshaft has been replaced under uner!paration previous:

    treat these vehicles as described in "case 2".



    Case 2:

    for motors N47, N47DKO, N47S, N47T period from production of 05.01.2009 - 01.03.2011

    In case of customer complaint, replace the following parts:

    - 11 31 8 506 652 chain below.

    - 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the oil pump.

    - 11 31 8 510 014 upper chain.

    - 11 31 7 797 899 guide rail for upper timing chain.

    - 13 52 8 573 158 guide rail for lower chain.

    - 13 52 8 573 159 rail for timing chain tensioner below.

    Note: it is not necessary to loosen the bolt on the idler for the arbresd'!quilibrage

    Note: the lower chain, use only the rails and tensioners guidageamortis l (see Appendix, page 2)

    For greater supply chain, use only the rail without reinforcements! (See Appendix, page 3)

    Note: On vehicles having already been under repair track without reinforcements and surlesquels both chains have been replaced: treat these vehicles as indicated inparagraph "Case 3).



    Case 3:

    For N47T engine part products from 01.03.2011 and engines already repaired with rails deguidage without reinforcements.

    In case of customer complaint, replace the following parts:

    - 11 31 8 506 652 chain below.

    - 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the oil pump.

    - 11 31 8 510 014 upper chain.

    - 13 52 8 573 158 guide rail for lower chain.

    - 13 52 8 573 159 rail for timing chain tensioner below.
    Last edited by Iceweasel; 17-09-2017 at 8:19 PM.
    • ess0two
    • By ess0two 17th Sep 17, 8:10 PM
    • 2,929 Posts
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    ess0two
    • #7
    • 17th Sep 17, 8:10 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Sep 17, 8:10 PM
    Timing chain and cam belt entirely different.
    Official MR B fan club,dont go............................
    • z1a
    • By z1a 17th Sep 17, 9:44 PM
    • 1,271 Posts
    • 1,217 Thanks
    z1a
    • #8
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:44 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Sep 17, 9:44 PM
    Timing chain and cam belt entirely different.
    Originally posted by ess0two
    Both do exactly the same job, so not entirely different.
    • takman
    • By takman 17th Sep 17, 11:59 PM
    • 3,340 Posts
    • 2,920 Thanks
    takman
    • #9
    • 17th Sep 17, 11:59 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Sep 17, 11:59 PM
    Both do exactly the same job, so not entirely different.
    Originally posted by z1a
    I'm sure ess0two was referring to the OP saying:

    Last week the timing chain (aka Cam belt) broke without any prior warning/noise while the car was in motion.
    Originally posted by savvysearcher
    So considering that "aka" stands for "also know as" that statement is definitely false.
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 18th Sep 17, 9:38 AM
    • 4,195 Posts
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    onomatopoeia99
    Timing chain and cam belt entirely different.
    Originally posted by ess0two
    Entirely different construction, completely the same function.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • ratrace
    • By ratrace 18th Sep 17, 11:53 AM
    • 552 Posts
    • 371 Thanks
    ratrace
    Entirely different construction, completely the same function.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Yep, one is internal (chain) the other is external (cam belt) hence one of the reasons the chain is not checked when the car is in for a service if it was the cost to do so from a main dealer would send customers running lol

    but it is a big job to replace not the chain but the labour involved
    People are caught up in an egotistic artificial rat race to display a false image to society. We want the biggest house, fanciest car, and we don't mind paying the sky high mortgage to put up that show. We sacrifice our biggest assets our health and time, We feel happy when we see people look up to us and see how successful we are”

    Rat Race
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 18th Sep 17, 12:39 PM
    • 4,285 Posts
    • 4,333 Thanks
    DoaM
    I'm sure ess0two was referring to the OP saying:



    So considering that "aka" stands for "also know as" that statement is definitely false.
    Originally posted by takman
    I suspect most of us knew what the OP meant, without needing to resort to technical pedantry.
    Diary of a madman
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    • takman
    • By takman 18th Sep 17, 8:00 PM
    • 3,340 Posts
    • 2,920 Thanks
    takman
    I suspect most of us knew what the OP meant, without needing to resort to technical pedantry.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    I wouldn't say it's technical pedantry to point out that Cam Belt isn't just another name for a Timing Chain. Some people really do not have a clue about these things and if they read this thread it could easily confuse them.
    • zooks
    • By zooks 19th Sep 17, 1:54 AM
    • 78 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    zooks
    Not a lot of good to you now but long service intervals have been blamed for these engines going bang. I have a 118d and I get the oil changed ever 10k max.
    BMW recommends something like 30k for oil changes! No thanks.
    Google the 1 series forums, babybmw etc. There's a guy up north making a good living from rebuilding these engines for a reasonable cost.

    Edit* This is the guys site
    http://www.petervanderveer.co.uk/
    Last edited by zooks; 19-09-2017 at 8:32 AM.
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 19th Sep 17, 10:00 AM
    • 4,318 Posts
    • 3,169 Thanks
    Iceweasel
    Not a lot of good to you now but long service intervals have been blamed for these engines going bang. I have a 118d and I get the oil changed ever 10k max.
    BMW recommends something like 30k for oil changes! No thanks.
    Google the 1 series forums, babybmw etc. There's a guy up north making a good living from rebuilding these engines for a reasonable cost.

    Edit* This is the guys site
    http://www.petervanderveer.co.uk/
    Originally posted by zooks
    Yes, - but that's 30K kilometers (or 2 years) which is displayed on the i-drive after a BMW dealer workshop oil & filter change as the distance until the next oil & filter change.

    If you prefer it in Imperial the i-drive would show 18K miles - and before anyone corrects me, I know that is not an accurate conversion but that is what is displayed.

    I agree though that many people think that 18K miles or two years is too long.
    • savvysearcher
    • By savvysearcher 24th Sep 17, 1:24 PM
    • 24 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    savvysearcher
    Apologies for the delayed response but thank you for all your helpful replies. Yes, after research found out the N47 engine's has been plagued by timing chain snapping. My mistake of not taking it to BMW has cost me - wrongly thought that without warranty there is little comeback but in my defence not knowing at the time there was these issues with certain BMW engines. With service history should have just took it anyhow. Indy garage is not repairing. BMW do offer a goodwill policy gesture but the car having been looked at a independent makes the possibility of BMW offering anything now minimal or non-existent.
    • Jinjaxxx
    • By Jinjaxxx 12th Mar 18, 1:33 PM
    • 1 Posts
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    Jinjaxxx
    Me too
    I'd never heard of an N47 until my car engine seized whilst driving last week.
    2011 520D 100k on clock; full BMWMDSH.

    The crankshaft isn't turning. BMW have quoted me £2000 JUST to investigate and confirm the cause of the issue. I'm pretty sure it's the timing chain has failed. All the symptoms match up with what I've found on the internet.

    Even though I've full Service History, BMW are not offering to assist in anyway.
    Does anyone know of solicitors who have taken this matter forwards on behalf of others?

    Thx!
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Mar 18, 2:06 PM
    • 16,630 Posts
    • 9,817 Thanks
    motorguy
    I'd never heard of an N47 until my car engine seized whilst driving last week.
    2011 520D 100k on clock; full BMWMDSH.

    The crankshaft isn't turning. BMW have quoted me £2000 JUST to investigate and confirm the cause of the issue. I'm pretty sure it's the timing chain has failed. All the symptoms match up with what I've found on the internet.

    Even though I've full Service History, BMW are not offering to assist in anyway.
    Does anyone know of solicitors who have taken this matter forwards on behalf of others?

    Thx!
    Originally posted by Jinjaxxx
    7 year old car - i cant see BMW making any sort of contribution. Their warranty obligations are 3 years.

    Its also worth bearing in mind that it would be cheaper to get it done at an independent (or replace the engine) rather than pay BMW dealer rates. Even IF BMW make a "contribution", it might be £1,000 towards a £6,000 bill compared to maybe £3,000 getting it done at an indie.

    Its a very sad state of affairs mind you that owners are being left high and dry - particularly on cars that even at say 7 years old still have a very large monetary value attached to them.

    My son had a 2009 120d M Sport and he ran it from 50,000 miles to just over 80,000. We had it serviced at the 18,000 marker (or thereabouts when the car asked for it) but did a genuine filter and oil change every 9,000 miles. We also checked and topped it up with oil where necessary weekly. That seems to lessen the risk, rather than rely on BMWs particularly long service intervals. We bottled out at 84,000 miles and sold it though.
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 12th Mar 18, 2:20 PM
    • 1,064 Posts
    • 1,180 Thanks
    bertiewhite
    Response given the chain is expected to run the life of the car despite mileage or years
    Originally posted by savvysearcher
    Even more reason to have taken it straight back to BMW then.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 12th Mar 18, 2:30 PM
    • 16,630 Posts
    • 9,817 Thanks
    motorguy
    Yes, - but that's 30K kilometers (or 2 years) which is displayed on the i-drive after a BMW dealer workshop oil & filter change as the distance until the next oil & filter change.

    If you prefer it in Imperial the i-drive would show 18K miles - and before anyone corrects me, I know that is not an accurate conversion but that is what is displayed.

    I agree though that many people think that 18K miles or two years is too long.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    +1

    18,000 miles is far too much on a diesel
    "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."
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