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  • FIRST POST
    • chad888
    • By chad888 1st Sep 17, 11:16 AM
    • 14Posts
    • 14Thanks
    chad888
    Speeding Fine - Paid, Refunded, Court Summons
    • #1
    • 1st Sep 17, 11:16 AM
    Speeding Fine - Paid, Refunded, Court Summons 1st Sep 17 at 11:16 AM
    Back in January I was coming off the M5 on to the M4. It was 0930 and the road was empty so i carried on at my speed of 70mph, I was to busy merging across the 2 lanes checking my mirrors and blindspot to get onto the left hand lane of the M4 from the slip road that i didn't notice i had gone under a 60mph speed sign (not roadworks, just speed limitation for earlier traffic) and the overhead camera flashed.

    2 weeks later i received a fixed penalty charge of 100 plus 3 points notice, i paid immediately and returned the form but then 2/3 months later while rummaging through my safe for some documents i found my paper part to my license and realised i hadn't sent it off. I had heard nothing at this point from the Police and had received no letters requesting i send off my license after my mistake so i thought it was okay and they have updated my license on their system or something and 20 seconds later it had slipped my mind again when i found what i was looking for.

    7 months later (today) i receive an email from the MoJ giving me a 100 refund for this parking ticket, i called them up and they tell me that i have now got a court summons to answer to a judge for not complying with the penalty notice.

    I am super confused now on:
    Why didn't they send a notice when they got the letter without my notice to remind me to send it off?
    Why did they take 7 months to get back to me?
    What is likely to happen in this court summons?
    What is the fine going to be?
    What is the penalty points going to be?
Page 1
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 1st Sep 17, 11:35 AM
    • 1,485 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    • #2
    • 1st Sep 17, 11:35 AM
    • #2
    • 1st Sep 17, 11:35 AM
    I think you must have received a conditional offer of a fixed penalty. One of the conditions attached to that offer is that you must return your licence. You did not do so, so the offer has been withdrawn and has reverted to a court summons. If you don't return your licence, I don't think they are obliged to remind you.


    Others on here know more about the likely level of fine and penalty points than I do. Or you could go over to Pepipoo who deal with these queries all the time. (But be warned, they will require much more information than you have given here).


    My (inexpert) understanding is they have 6 months after the original offence to issue the summons. You mention 7 months? That's why an accurate timeline of what has actually happened is vital. They rarely miss the 6 months deadline, but it's not unknown. (It's when they commence proceedings that is important, not when you receive notice of it).


    PS - I assume this is speeding but you also mention a parking ticket?
    Last edited by Manxman in exile; 01-09-2017 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Add
    • HogMan
    • By HogMan 1st Sep 17, 11:51 AM
    • 95 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    HogMan
    • #3
    • 1st Sep 17, 11:51 AM
    • #3
    • 1st Sep 17, 11:51 AM
    i found my paper part to my license and realised i hadn't sent it off
    The paper counterpart of the driving licence was abolished in 8 June 2015
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 1st Sep 17, 12:19 PM
    • 1,485 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    • #4
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:19 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:19 PM
    The paper counterpart of the driving licence was abolished in 8 June 2015
    Originally posted by HogMan

    I thought you still had to send it off to comply with the conditional offer? I'm sure I've read several threads on Pepipoo where people have fallen foul of this and have been refunded the fixed penalty and received a summons? I'm sure there are similar threads on here.


    EDIT: Ah - having checked perhaps it's only the photocard bit you need to return. I wonder if the OP did this but it went astray.


    PS - you say "abolished", but the only licence my wife has is a paper one.
    Last edited by Manxman in exile; 01-09-2017 at 12:27 PM. Reason: Addition
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 1st Sep 17, 12:25 PM
    • 3,188 Posts
    • 1,985 Thanks
    Car 54
    • #5
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:25 PM
    • #5
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:25 PM

    I am super confused now on:
    Why didn't they send a notice when they got the letter without my notice to remind me to send it off?
    Because they don't have to

    Why did they take 7 months to get back to me?
    See below

    What is likely to happen in this court summons?
    You should receive a Single Justice Procedure Notice, which gives you the option to plead guilty or not.

    What is the fine going to be?
    Income-related, unless you can argue convincingly that they should fine you at the fixed penalty level, i.e. 100 (see pepipoo.com for help). There will also be costs and a victim surcharge.

    What is the penalty points going to be?
    Three.
    Originally posted by chad888
    If your recollection of the date is right, then the offence may have timed out. As said above, they have six months from the date of the offence to begin proceedings.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 1st Sep 17, 12:56 PM
    • 7,469 Posts
    • 3,052 Thanks
    almillar
    • #6
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:56 PM
    • #6
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:56 PM
    The paper counterpart of the driving licence was abolished in 8 June 2015
    Almost definitely off topic, considering the roads driven, but in NI we still have the paper counterpart.
    • HogMan
    • By HogMan 1st Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    HogMan
    • #7
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    • #7
    • 1st Sep 17, 12:59 PM
    the only licence my wife has is a paper one
    That will be the old green or pink paper license. That is still valid until it expires or needs updating.

    I was refering to the paper counterpart to the current photocard license.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 1st Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • 1,485 Posts
    • 1,128 Thanks
    Manxman in exile
    • #8
    • 1st Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    • #8
    • 1st Sep 17, 1:14 PM
    That will be the old green or pink paper license. That is still valid until it expires or needs updating.

    I was refering to the paper counterpart to the current photocard license.
    Originally posted by HogMan

    Ah - so if the OP only has an "old" paper licence and did not send it off, that's why he is where he is. But if he has a photocard and returned it, didn't he get it back?


    Off topic, but can I now dispose of my paper counterpart? Does it no longer have any significance?
    • HogMan
    • By HogMan 1st Sep 17, 1:17 PM
    • 95 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    HogMan
    • #9
    • 1st Sep 17, 1:17 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Sep 17, 1:17 PM
    Yep unless you are in NI

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence-changes
    • jonnyrobbo85
    • By jonnyrobbo85 3rd Aug 18, 9:26 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jonnyrobbo85
    Help!
    I am due in court in a couple weeks purely for forgetting to send my driving license. How did people get on? How many points did you get? What was the fine? Did you take a solicitor? I already have 3 points on my license if I get another 6 I could lose my job. Many thanks. Ps I was doing 38 in a 30
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 3rd Aug 18, 9:33 PM
    • 11,450 Posts
    • 8,232 Thanks
    neilmcl
    I am due in court in a couple weeks purely for forgetting to send my driving license. How did people get on? How many points did you get? What was the fine? Did you take a solicitor? I already have 3 points on my license if I get another 6 I could lose my job. Many thanks. Ps I was doing 38 in a 30
    Originally posted by jonnyrobbo85
    Can you start your own thread. This one is almost a year old and the OP hasn't been back on since so I doubt they'll respond to you here.
    • TooManyPoints
    • By TooManyPoints 3rd Aug 18, 10:56 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    TooManyPoints
    38 in a 30 would normally qualify for a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (100 and 3 points). The condition is that you pay the 100 and send in your licence. Since you failed to do so the offer lapsed.

    If the court sentences you in accordance with their guidelines, assuming you plead guilty, you will pay a fine of a third of a week's net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine (Minimum 30), costs of 85 and you will receive three points.

    Magistrates have guidance which says this:

    Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.

    Of course the difficulties were under your control because you caused them by failing to send in your licence. But you could ask them to indulge you. Don't ask, don't get and they can only say "no".

    By the way, do you have a summons, a postal requisition or a Single justice Procedure Notice (SJPN)? If the last you cannot attend the hearing. If you want to attend court you must reject the SJPN and ask for a court hearing.
    • oldnconfused
    • By oldnconfused 7th Aug 18, 11:49 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    oldnconfused
    I'm just about to go through this process. Got nicked. Paid the 100 as soon as i got the notice. Obviously didnt read the instructions properly, and obviously didnt send the license back. (is stupidity a mitigating factor ?)


    So i have had the refund email. Thought it was a scam. did some googling..rang the fixed penalty office. They told that once the refund is made its passed to the issuing Police Force and court proceedings are started.


    So i'm now waiting for a summons, for which i will plead guilty and try to offer some mitigation...
    • TooManyPoints
    • By TooManyPoints 7th Aug 18, 3:59 PM
    • 104 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    TooManyPoints
    In your response to (what will almost certainly be) a "Single Justice Procedure Notice" try using my guidance mentioned above. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not, sometimes the court will split the difference by fining you 100 but ordering that you pay 85 costs. If it's not too much of an inconvenience you can reject the SJPN and opt for a personal appearance to make your request. Don't ask wont get.
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