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    • parcaal
    • By parcaal 31st Aug 17, 9:38 PM
    • 25Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Second LBCCC from PE after unsuccessful POPLA
    • #1
    • 31st Aug 17, 9:38 PM
    Second LBCCC from PE after unsuccessful POPLA 31st Aug 17 at 9:38 PM
    Hi all, I have received a PE PCN, reminder outstanding amount letter and now LBCCC by post asking for 100£ as the keeper of a vehicle.

    I have only started reading here yesterday and realised I should have reacted much quicker, but so far I have completely ignored the letters. The time for action seems to have arrived.

    Situation is as follows:
    Driver enters a retailer car park (used primarily by Tesco and Papa Johns) allowed for 20 min stay and stays 30 min (10 min over). I as a keeper of the vehicle have also made a purchase at Tesco of a small amount (£4) which can be proven from my bank statement.

    PCN letters have following detail: address of offence, car reg and details, my details as a keeper, pictures of the car entering and exiting the car park with time/date on them.

    Reminder letter has reference, address of offence, time, vehicle reg. It quotes Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) have been satisfied, so they have the right to ask the keeper for the cash. Remainder talks about involving Cred Reference Agency being involved and refer to PE vs. Beavis [2015] case.

    LBCCC refers again to POFA and Schedule 4 and argues that appeal time has lapsed. Remainder talks about court proceedings and further costs to be expected and give me 14 days to pay/respond.

    After discussions in the forum, I have planned the following response:

    1. Complain to the retailer - Tesco team leader was very unhelpful, stating that car park and Tesco premises are separately owned. However, car park signage reminds very strongly of Tesco due to opening hours being the same as well as car par referring that customers only (not mentioning which) are allowed to park. See post #12 for details on signage.

    2. Drafted the following response to PE:

    Dear ParkingEye Legal Department,

    Re - your Letter Before County Court Claim re PCN: XXXXXXXXXX

    This is a formal response to your 'Letter before County Court Action' as the keeper of the vehicle in question. The driver's identity will not be supplied to you. There is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were. As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver.

    In your 'Letter before County Court Action' you have clearly failed to take into consideration and comply with Clause 13 “Grace Periods” of the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice:

    13 Grace periods
    13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
    13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
    13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.

    Should you seek to proceed with the court claim, this will form one part of any defence that is required should an MCOL be issued.

    I expect you to now cancel this 'parking charge' and admit your non-compliance with the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice.

    I expect to hear from you within 14 days to confirm that the charge is cancelled.

    Yours faithfully,

    (My name)

    Last edited by parcaal; 07-03-2018 at 10:10 PM. Reason: update status
Page 3
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 9th Mar 18, 8:20 PM
    • 1,024 Posts
    • 1,972 Thanks
    Also, I planned you return their Reply form - I assume I need to include both the Form and my letter?
    You can use the reply form if you wish. Where you are not asking for time to pay, you should not complete the financial/earnings form which, frankly, is none of their [ahem] business!
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Mar 18, 8:41 PM
    • 57,431 Posts
    • 71,028 Thanks
    I agree - certainly DO NOT fill out income & expenditure stuff.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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