Debate House Prices
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Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)
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It's descending into an embarrassing farce. Our fellow Europeans think we are mad.....apart from the extremist loons......and there will be a backlash against all of us should this continue:- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/11/no-europeans-need-apply-growing-evidence-discrimination-uk-brexit
In your little echo-chamber, Brits are a farce and Trumps wall a hideous notion.
In classic 'progressive' manner you turn a blind eye to:
EU WALLS / barriers going up all over, between;
Hungary and Serbia
Hungary and Croatia
Greece and Macedonia
Greece and Turkey
Slovenia and Croatia
Spain and Morocco in Ceuta and Melilla
Austria and Germany
Hungary and Slovakia.
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The "silly argument" or rather pure obfuscation is yours.ilovehouses wrote: »EU FOM does make it easier to travel but it doesn't mean FOM causes gun trafficking. You're confusing correlation with causation.
Conrad's Japan intervention is ridiculous. Japan doesn't have gun crime nor FOM ergo one causes the other. It's silly - if I said the US doesn't have FOM with Eastern Europe but still has high gun crime and tried to use this as an argument you'd be on it straightaway.
Another silly argument. Unfortunates sat in refugee camps isn't proof that travel isn't as cheap or as simple as it has ever been.
Why am I not surprised by that?
Trying to deny that it is easier to move arms from (for example) eastern EU member states across the Schengen zone than it is to bring them in via a customs-checked and controlled country or area is - frankly - ridiculous.
I am confusing nothing; rather you are blustering.
Conrad's comments have relevance because Japan is an island nation as we are - but it is not subject to the same FoM as we are and that is why you attempt to say that the parallels are "ridiculous" isn't it, rather than your somewhat facetious assertions?
It is in fact much more likely that an easy availability in acquiring guns will more-readily lead to increased usage. Simply, if you can't get 'em you can't use 'em.
Oh and since you insist upon mentioning FOM and comparing, maybe you don't think that Canada has a much lower gun crime rate than the USA despite a five-and-a-half thousand mile border?
No FoM there & yet Canada's homicide rate resulting from gun deaths is seven times lower than the USA according to: http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/12/04/news/how-american-gun-deaths-and-gun-laws-compare-canadas
As for your last sentence, proof was included in my post that travel is only cheap or simple if wherever you are going will let you in.
Otherwise you must return from whence you came and no wasted journey is then cheap.
Now should I expect your usual (often lengthy) continued obfuscation in response?0 -
More commentary pieces?https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/11/uk-sweet-brexit-deluded-eu-europe-single-economy So many of us are nostalgic for a past that has gone forever but our children will pay the price for our preoccupation with immigration as a reason for leaving the EU:- 'The first problem here is the term “single market”. Brexiteers and remainers alike seem to cling to a 19th-century notion of separate nations making their own products and trading them with other countries. The chief political project is then to lower or ideally abolish tariffs so that the so-called comparative advantages of free trade kick in. Last week chief EU negotiator Michel Barnier called this view “nostalgic”, and for good reason. The EU is rapidly evolving into something far more ambitious than just a free trade area: it is in the process of becoming one huge economic zone governed by a single set of rules and standards and overseen by a single European court of justice, striking trade deals with the rest of the world and deriving its logic and coherence from the four famous freedoms of goods, capital, services and labour. Products such as cars, computers or aeroplanes are now built from components made in factories and production units scattered across the EU, with employees moving seamlessly between them. For this reason “single economy” is a far better term than “single market”.
*sigh*
Since you like them so much, try this one from today:
http://www.cityam.com/271679/juncker-wont-tell-you-real-state-eu-On Wednesday, the president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, will give his annual State of the Union address in Strasbourg.
He will have you believe that all is well in the EU Land of Milk and Honey.
But let us take a closer look at the real state of the EU.0 -
Firstly our trade with EU wont be diminished as evidenced by plenty of calls from CORE EU export nations for a no-harm trade deal settlement.
Secondly the IMF predict 85% of growth over next 15 yrs will come from outside the EU.
Thirdly there is ample evidence of non EU prospering nations growing their trade with EU faster than has the UK.
Then there are new development in global trade to take account of, including;
WTO's new global trade deal comes into force – 23 February 2017.
WTO economists estimated it would cut the cost of trading by 14.3%, and that developing nations would gain the most.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39049074
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British International Freight Association (BIFA) 23/02/17
On behalf of its members, the British International Freight Association (BIFA) has welcomed the entry into force of the WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement.
“If better border procedures and faster, smoother trade flows result from the agreement and help to revitalise global trade, BIFA members, which facilitate much of the UK’s visible trade, will benefit.”
http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/bifa-welcomes-entry-into-force-of-the-wto-trade-facilitation-agreement/
You make it all seem so simple Conrad but your optimism is misplaced. We will be squeezed out and spend the next twenty years trying to make new trade deals. Wherever growth comes from we won't be in a position to take advantage of it because the future will be about economic zones not single countries. Germany has increasing trade with China; we could have stayed in the EU and aimed for that ourselves. Being in the EU has never stopped us taking advantage of growth markets. We are no longer in the 19thC Conrad. The days of the mercantile entrepreneur and the East India Company are over!0 -
On the contrary, the evidence so far strongly suggests that your pessimism is misplaced.You make it all seem so simple Conrad but your optimism is misplaced. We will be squeezed out and spend the next twenty years trying to make new trade deals. Wherever growth comes from we won't be in a position to take advantage of it because the future will be about economic zones not single countries. Germany has increasing trade with China; we could have stayed in the EU and aimed for that ourselves. Being in the EU has never stopped us taking advantage of growth markets. We are no longer in the 19thC Conrad. The days of the mercantile entrepreneur and the East India Company are over!
Just as a few examples, would you like me to post from today how London airports are seeing record business?
How about from today proof that London has extended its lead as the world's foremost centre for finance?
Wherever your head currently is, I politely suggest you pull it out and open your eyes a little more.
http://www.cityam.com/271783/heathrow-and-london-stansted-soar-record-summer-months-London airports had a sunny summer period, as both Heathrow and Stansted announced today they had a record month of August.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-london-rating/london-stays-worlds-top-finance-centre-despite-brexit-idUKKCN1BM0E7London was placed first, followed by New York, Hong Kong and Singapore in the Z/Yen global financial centres index (GFCI), which ranks 92 financial centres on factors such as infrastructure and access to high quality staff. New York was 24 points behind the British capital, the biggest gap between the two since the survey started in 2007.0 -
A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »Trying to deny that it is easier to move arms from (for example) eastern EU member states across the Schengen zone than it is to bring them in via a customs-checked and controlled country or area is - frankly - ridiculous.
Which is why I haven't denied that.A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »Conrad's comments have relevance because Japan is an island nation as we are - but it is not subject to the same FoM as we are and that is why you attempt to say that the parallels are "ridiculous" isn't it, rather than your somewhat facetious assertions?
It is in fact much more likely that an easy availability in acquiring guns will more-readily lead to increased usage. Simply, if you can't get 'em you can't use 'em.
No, they have no relevance. Japan has pretty much a zero tolerance to possession of firearms. You're trying to prove correlation equals causation and failing.A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »Oh and since you insist upon mentioning FOM and comparing, maybe you don't think that Canada has a much lower gun crime rate than the USA despite a five-and-a-half thousand mile border?
No FoM there & yet Canada's homicide rate resulting from gun deaths is seven times lower than the USA
So do you don't think that's down to stricter, enforced gun laws in Canada. FOM has nothing to do with it - thousands of vehicle cross the border daily without hindrance.A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »As for your last sentence, proof was included in my post that travel is only cheap or simple if wherever you are going will let you in.
Otherwise you must return from whence you came and no wasted journey is then cheap.
Exceptions don't prove rules.0 -
CKhalvashi wrote: »That's true.
Is there any way that the UK regulations are more stringent than the EU ones meaning there will be no required change in the law?
I seem to remember you saying no before however I honestly can't remember and therefore would like you to reply (as you know more about firearms than I do) before I can pass comment on what I think.
The EU regulations are more stringent and go way too far.As I said the UK Certification has worked for years even with all the new type of guns that come on the market and we don't have a problem of weapons being reactivated. Its imported weapons already deactivated by other EU countries that has been the issue. A UK company will import crates full of live firing WW2 Russian PPSH machine guns and carry out all the necessay work, send them to London or Birmingham proof house to be certificated so they comply with the UK legislation and we haven't had any issues with UK deacts being reactivated.
You may or may not remember around 18 months ago Kent Police raided a boat on the River Medway (iirc) and found Skorpion manchine pistols which had been deactivated in the Czech Republic and then reactivated on their way to the UK.
My fear is after we leave this type of legislation will be way,way down on the priority list of legislation to be amended.
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Duplicate post................:o0
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ilovehouses wrote: »Japan has some of the toughest gun laws in the world and they are rigorously enforced.
..and guess what; gun crime and shootings are almost unheard of.
Switzerland is awash with guns because everyone either target shoots,hunts or is in the army and they take their guns home with them.Switzerland has zero gun crime with the flip side being the USA so for me its very much a cultural thing.0 -
setmefree2 wrote: »
Clarke has either been promised a K or a seat in the Lords.0
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