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  • FIRST POST
    • tati
    • By tati 21st Aug 17, 1:01 PM
    • 52Posts
    • 10Thanks
    tati
    Received PCN - I'm not the driver nor the keeper of the vehicle
    • #1
    • 21st Aug 17, 1:01 PM
    Received PCN - I'm not the driver nor the keeper of the vehicle 21st Aug 17 at 1:01 PM
    Hello!

    I am posting as my case is regarding a hired vehicle which was not hired by me but by my ex-partner who was the second named driver on the insurance policy ( I was the main driver). After we have split he was still using the vehicle and after he smashed it he rented a courtesy car about which I didn't know. He had signed a hire agreement under my name and surname and pretended to sign as myself (I don't know how that was even possible, I am female and he is a male!).

    Hence, I'm hesitant to appeal as a registered keeper as I was not really the keeper either, of course not the driver as well.

    Also, what I have seen is that on the evidence there is a man getting in the car who is not my partner and the vehicle was parked on the day when it was being delivered to my ex-partner.. so I believe that was the time when the vehicle was being delivered to my ex-partner.

    I can obtain the copy of the hire lease but it is signed by my ex-partner. Also, it is now past the 21 day since receiving the notice as I was abroad..

    I look forward to getting some help with this highly annoying matter!!

    Thank you !!
Page 3
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 13th Jan 19, 12:13 PM
    • 12,438 Posts
    • 12,578 Thanks
    The Deep
    This forum has been advising this approach since I became involved.

    It has indeed, but I refer the honourable gentleman to Mr Speaker's recent justification of his change to precedent.

    How can this be sensible when TMOTCO is confused by it.
    Last edited by The Deep; 13-01-2019 at 12:18 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • tati
    • By tati 14th Jan 19, 12:05 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    Hello all,



    A question - I was the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of alledged contravention. The evidence taken by Parking Control Management shows an unknown male stepping out of the car. This in itself is the best prove that I should not be held responsible for the parking fine - is that correct? Or can I be held responsible purely by being a registered keeper?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 19, 12:16 PM
    • 39,157 Posts
    • 87,441 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    You can name the driver if you know them, but if you can't identify that person then unfortunately The Keeper can be held liable.

    However, you aren't the registered keeper or owner. You weren't the day to day keeper either.

    This all comes down to your ex falsifying documents, and that is what I think you should be concentrating on.

    Do you have a copy of the hire agreement with the falsified signature on it? I still don't understand how this cannot be considered fraud (obtaining goods/service by deception).

    Has your MP responded to you yet?
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 14-01-2019 at 12:20 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • tati
    • By tati 14th Jan 19, 12:29 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    The problem is that as he was named second driver he had the power to make a claim and lease the car - I was told today by the insurance company

    I remain the registered keeper.


    I have no idea who is the Asian male stepping out of the car on the evidence


    Looks like the responsibility to pay this charge may be mine....?
    Last edited by tati; 14-01-2019 at 12:32 PM.
    • tati
    • By tati 14th Jan 19, 12:32 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    Yes, I do have a copy of the lease agreement signed by my ex-partner.


    Actually, the registered keeper, as held by DVLA, is my ex-partner. I am only the insurance cover keeper - is this the same?



    This is ridiculous if I will be held liable
    Last edited by tati; 14-01-2019 at 1:03 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 19, 1:53 PM
    • 39,157 Posts
    • 87,441 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Yes, I do have a copy of the lease agreement signed by my ex-partner.


    Actually, the registered keeper, as held by DVLA, is my ex-partner. I am only the insurance cover keeper - is this the same?



    This is ridiculous if I will be held liable
    Originally posted by tati
    I don't know what insurance cover keeper means.

    The normal entities where a vehicle is concerned are.

    Driver
    Owner
    Day to day Keeper
    Registered Keeper
    Hirer/lessee

    all of whom can be completely different people.

    If someone refuses to acknowledge being the driver, or the driver's identity is not known, then the keeper can be held liable. This is assumed to be the registered keeper unless proven differently.

    If you are not the registered keeper as per the records held by the DVLA, I don't understand why you are being pursued, other than the scammers are scammers and don't care about anything other than extracting money.

    Again, what has your MP said about all this?
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 14-01-2019 at 1:56 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • tati
    • By tati 14th Jan 19, 9:02 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    I am unsure where Gladstones got my details from.


    The situation is not straight-forward but I'll explain as clearly as I can.


    Me and my ex-partner had a car when we were common law partners. We owned a car, my ex was the DVLA registered keeper. We purchased insurance cover for that car for the period April 2017-April 2018, I was the main driver and policy holder, my ex was named second driver. I have split from my partner January 2018, the cover kept rolling. It was an immensely difficult time for me, I really had no head to think about the car insurance.


    After split my ex continued to use the car. He was also harassing me which led to me getting non-mo March 2017-March 2018.

    My ex caused an accident in March 2018, the car was declared total loss and he was offered courtesy car. I called the insurance company to ask for details. I was told that, as he was named second driver, he could make decisions on the policy.

    My ex communicated with the insuring company and was offered courtesy car for the time when the car involved in the accident was under inspection. The lease agreement for the courtesy car was produced under my name, the car was delivered to my ex and he signed it. It can be seen on the agreement, that my name is written under the signature box but my ex had signed it.I had no knowledge of this. Today I called the insuring company and was told that yes, the second driver can make decisions and make claims on the policy. I asked, is it OK that he signed an agreement that was issued on my name? 'He can make decisions' I was told..



    My ex had received the courtesy car and as soon as he started using it, he carried on following me in that car. On the day that he received the car, he harassed me (followed me while I was in a taxi). I reported the harassment to the police, CAD number recorded. On the same day of harassment, parking charge was issued. Few weeks later the parking charge notice letter came to my address.



    To complicate matters further, the evidence available for inspection from the parking company shows a picture of an unknown man stepping out of the car... Likely to be a representative of a leasing company who was delivering the car to my ex-partner; who likely had decided to buy something from the shop so he parked in an infamous Heath Parade bay...


    I hope that this story when re-told in court can be ruled in my favour.
    Last edited by tati; 14-01-2019 at 9:06 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 19, 10:15 PM
    • 39,157 Posts
    • 87,441 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    OK, I think you need to concentrate on why the PCN was sent to you as opposed to the registered keeper or day to day keeper.

    This could be as a result of someone telling lies.

    Are you being pursued by Gladstones as keeper or driver?

    Please bear in mind that Gladrags have probably not even looked at your correspondence. They have admitted they don't have time to check thing as they have so many claims on the go that they don't bother to look.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 14-01-2019 at 10:44 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • tati
    • By tati 14th Jan 19, 10:48 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    The Gladstones are pursuing me as a driver and/or keeper of the vehicle.



    The lease agreement for the courtesy car states that the lessee is the registered keeper. I think this is where the 'enforcement'(?) comes from and the insurance company have likely passed on my details.


    I don't think anybody is lying here
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 19, 10:58 PM
    • 39,157 Posts
    • 87,441 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    The lessee cannot be the registered keeper. This can only be the person whose details are on the V5 and held by the DVLA.

    You "could" be the day to day keeper, but the PoFA states that it is assumed the keeper is the registered keeper unless proven otherwise, or words to that effect. If you deny being the day to day keeper, then according to the PoFA, the person liable reverts back to being the registered keeper.

    By their own evidence of the male in their "evidence" picture, you cannot be the driver.

    You should contact the PPC and Gladrags and deny that you are the driver or day to day keeper, therefore they should cease and desist and contact only the registered keeper.
    You should also complain to the lease company that they are liable as registered keeper so they must not only deal with this, but will also be required to attend court should it get that far to explain themselves.
    It is possible that the person in the picture is an employee of the lease company and it is they that parked the car so is liable for this charge.

    Yet again, what has your MP said about this mess? Out MPs are the only people who can stop this scam which is why it is imperative that you involve him/her.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • tati
    • By tati 15th Jan 19, 12:39 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    I will try my best to contact MP, I have not done so yet..


    How shall I best contact Gladrags? Call or email?



    Thank you all for your replies!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jan 19, 1:32 AM
    • 68,768 Posts
    • 80,989 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    NEVER EVER phone Gladstones or any parking firm! They are not your friends.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • tati
    • By tati 20th Jan 19, 4:02 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    Today I received a letter



    PCM would like to proceed with the claim and they request the case to be dealt with on the papers.


    What to do next, can anyone advise please?


    Thank you
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Jan 19, 4:19 PM
    • 39,157 Posts
    • 87,441 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    No to papers in my opinion. Follow the bargepole guide to court on how to do this.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Parkingfines
    • By Parkingfines 20th Jan 19, 4:20 PM
    • 160 Posts
    • 207 Thanks
    Parkingfines
    You tell the court you require an oral hearing
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 20th Jan 19, 5:25 PM
    • 13,708 Posts
    • 15,001 Thanks
    KeithP
    PCM would like to proceed with the claim and they request the case to be dealt with on the papers.


    What to do next, can anyone advise please?
    Originally posted by tati
    How disappointing to read that.

    Wasn't point 8 in the list in post #23 above clear enough?
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Jan 19, 5:29 PM
    • 68,768 Posts
    • 80,989 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    This standard Gladstones letter is already mentioned in the NEWBIES thread, with info on how to deal with it. You need to be ready & prepared for each stage.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Parkingfines
    • By Parkingfines 20th Jan 19, 5:30 PM
    • 160 Posts
    • 207 Thanks
    Parkingfines
    Gladstones want every case to be dealt with on papers, its a standard line
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 20th Jan 19, 6:33 PM
    • 10,937 Posts
    • 14,499 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Heard on papers is not in your interests.

    Every day more and more judges are understanding the way Gladstones operate and the scam they represent

    BUT, it would be "sods law" if it was heard by a judge who was clueless ... there are still some around.

    Face to face with the judge is the only way
    Recently, Gladstones played truant on cases and never turned up
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • tati
    • By tati 21st Jan 19, 6:49 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    tati
    How disappointing to read that.

    Wasn't point 8 in the list in post #23 above clear enough?
    Originally posted by KeithP



    I really do appreciate all of the advice and, above all, that you devote so much time to helping strangers with more or less the same issues over and over again.



    So I promise to read all of the relevant information and hopefully not ask unnecessary questions in the future. However, off-screen I am in it totally on my own so it is very reassuring to be given a confirmation even of what I have already read..

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