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    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 14th Aug 17, 3:02 PM
    • 15Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Help needed please
    Idem Servicing - advice please
    • #1
    • 14th Aug 17, 3:02 PM
    Idem Servicing - advice please 14th Aug 17 at 3:02 PM
    I have an old loan which was originally with Lloyds that I have been paying off for 18 years, this has now been taken over by Idem Servicing who initially seemed helpful as I disputed the amount they said was still due. I have been asking for years for a copy of the original agreement and it has never been produced. I have a copy of the statement of my alleged account but I have been asking how they arrived at the initial debt to no avail. I gave notice and have stopped making the repayments.

    I spoke with my bank manager at the time before I defaulted on the loan as the household income had dropped form 2 to 1 and I knew I would be unable to meet payments. He advised me to open another account with a different bank and default on the loan so that it would be passed for recovery and the interest frozen.

    They last week sent the 'you have ignored our previous letters' letter and 'this is being passed to our litigation department' - however I have not received anything. I wrote and stated this also that I would happily see them in court as I'd like to hear judgement in the case. I have now received their 'final response' where they have vindicated themselves and refer me to the Ombudsman.

    At the time I took out the loan I already had another smaller loan which has been paid off separately, however I believe they have included the other loan together with the second loan I took out which is why I am challenging the value claimed.

    Any advice or comments would be gratefully received before I write to the Ombudsman. Thank you for your help.
Page 1
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 14th Aug 17, 4:00 PM
    • 14,342 Posts
    • 13,536 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #2
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:00 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:00 PM
    Hi,

    Well if you've made a CCA request and they have not complied with it, then the debt remains unenforceable in court until they do produce it.

    You should of pushed this point at the time, when did you make your first request for a copy of the credit agreement ?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 14th Aug 17, 4:11 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    • #3
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:11 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:11 PM
    It was several years ago I made the request, and have repeatedly repeated the request. I also now have a statement in writing that LBG are unable to supply me with a copy of my credit agreement, but have requested I telephone LBG to dicuss the PPI claim. That is separate and I have already asked them to communicate in writing.

    Should I still write to the Ombudsman, it took ages to get up the courage to stop the SO and I don't want to mess up at this late stage.Thank you so much for your help.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 14th Aug 17, 4:22 PM
    • 14,342 Posts
    • 13,536 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #4
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:22 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:22 PM
    You have 100% all the ammunition in your possession to put this to bed once and for all.

    The FOS will not deal with issues regarding unenforceable credit agreements, only a court can do that, frankly your wasting your time with the FOS in this situation.

    This is what you need to do, you basically have two issues here, the lack of a credit agreement, and the PPI claim, both are separate issues, pursue the PPI claim with the utmost vigor, if you need to take that to the ombudsman, thats fine.

    As regards the lack of a credit agreement, this is what the consumer credit act says :


    "Sec 78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

    (1)The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F11], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,!!!8212;
    (a)the state of the account, and
    (b)the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
    (c)the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor."

    And the most important little sentence comes last :

    "6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)!!!8212;
    (a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement."

    So your creditor has failed to comply with your request for information, therefore they cannot enforce the agreement whilst that breach continues, basically they can ask you to pay, but cannot force you to pay by taking legal action.

    You should write to them and remind them of all these points, and then tell them never to contact you again about the matter.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 14-08-2017 at 4:27 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 14th Aug 17, 4:29 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    • #5
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:29 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:29 PM
    Thank you very much, this is greatly appreciated. Should I put anything in writing to Idem or let them keep digging their hole and build a harassment case?

    I shall write to FOS to use as further ammunition/proof of my compliance in trying to do the right thing. I am fed up with people like this trying to bully and frighten you into paying something they are not entitled to chase. By my calculations, I have repaid the original debt as well!
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 14th Aug 17, 4:39 PM
    • 14,342 Posts
    • 13,536 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #6
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:39 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:39 PM
    Thank you very much, this is greatly appreciated. Should I put anything in writing to Idem or let them keep digging their hole and build a harassment case?

    I shall write to FOS to use as further ammunition/proof of my compliance in trying to do the right thing. I am fed up with people like this trying to bully and frighten you into paying something they are not entitled to chase. By my calculations, I have repaid the original debt as well!
    Originally posted by Help needed please
    If IDEM have bought your account, you write the letter to them, as they are now the creditor.

    Keep the letter brief, tell them you are not paying because of non compliance with your CCA request, insert the date you first requested information, (or as near as possible) quote the legislation above that you are relying on, and that you will not discuss the matter further with them.

    Should they choose to ignore you, and file a claim in the county court, non compliance with a CCA request is a full defense to that claim.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 14th Aug 17, 4:49 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    • #7
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:49 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:49 PM
    Perfect, thank you so much much I shall get that letter sent. You have been extremely helpful.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 14th Aug 17, 4:58 PM
    • 14,342 Posts
    • 13,536 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #8
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:58 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Aug 17, 4:58 PM
    Perfect, thank you so much much I shall get that letter sent. You have been extremely helpful.
    Originally posted by Help needed please
    No problem, if you need further help to any of there replies, feel free to ask again on here.

    Also i`d like you to keep us updated with this if you dont mind.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 15th Aug 17, 8:38 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    • #9
    • 15th Aug 17, 8:38 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Aug 17, 8:38 AM
    Not a problem, letter going off today!
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 19th Aug 17, 1:33 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    An interesting development - I made a separate PPI challenge and have received a letter from LBG stating they can find no record of any loan in my name so what I have been paying for these last 18 years is a mystery! If anyone has an opinion on this I'd appreciate it!
    • worried jim
    • By worried jim 19th Aug 17, 1:51 PM
    • 9,231 Posts
    • 14,238 Thanks
    worried jim
    Won't keep a record for a loan taken 18 years ago and since defaulted and sold on. When it was sold on they washed their hands of it.
    "Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe"
    Albert Einstein
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 19th Aug 17, 2:55 PM
    • 12,352 Posts
    • 9,393 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Then it's going to hinge on what evidence you have about the ppi on the loan.

    Might do best on the ppi board

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=169
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 19th Aug 17, 5:42 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    Thank you, I appreciate your response, I think I'll just drop it. I only challenged the PPI to cause them time and inconvenience due to their actions towards me, time to let go!
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 18th Sep 17, 2:04 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    I have now had a further response from Idem which states that as they cannot supply a copy of the CA they acknowledge they cannot enforce the agreement. They then state that they will 'continue to pursue' me. I have already written to the Financial Ombudsman and am awaiting their reply. To me Iden seem to be contradicting themselves, or am I mistaken? Opinions would be welcomed, thank you!
    • StopIt
    • By StopIt 18th Sep 17, 2:12 PM
    • 1,394 Posts
    • 1,250 Thanks
    StopIt
    I have now had a further response from Idem which states that as they cannot supply a copy of the CA they acknowledge they cannot enforce the agreement. They then state that they will 'continue to pursue' me. I have already written to the Financial Ombudsman and am awaiting their reply. To me Iden seem to be contradicting themselves, or am I mistaken? Opinions would be welcomed, thank you!
    Originally posted by Help needed please

    A missing CCA Agreement means they cannot enforce the debt in court.


    It doesn't mean they cannot ask you for the money. It means you have no legal obligation to pay them.


    The FOS will not make any judgement on cases like these. Unless if they're using overtly threatening tactics, it is not illegal for IDEM to continue to ask for payment, but they know that they cannot go to court.


    At this point, you can walk away, block their numbers from your phones, and bin any more letters from them.
    • Help needed please
    • By Help needed please 18th Sep 17, 2:32 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Help needed please
    Thank you very much, it helps to have confirmation I can now just ignore these people with no ramifications, let them waste their postage!
    • johngill03
    • By johngill03 5th Mar 18, 12:07 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    johngill03
    please any advice
    hi me and my family stupidly got a secured loan off blackhorse over 16 years ago we were making payments and we were misold ppi which we claimed back . our situation changed and went on reduced payments my wife broke her leg i was the main carerr ect ... about 8 years we had a letter from idem who bought the loan off black horse and wecate now dealing with them .. we have paid regular ammounts when we were back in work but we are struggling atm the balance does not seeem to budge we really dont no what to do any advice would be really appreciated they once said unles we make regular paymenys court action would start and they asked us to seek help from citizens advice please help
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 5th Mar 18, 8:27 AM
    • 12,352 Posts
    • 9,393 Thanks
    fatbelly
    hi me and my family stupidly got a secured loan off blackhorse over 16 years ago we were making payments and we were misold ppi which we claimed back . our situation changed and went on reduced payments my wife broke her leg i was the main carerr ect ... about 8 years we had a letter from idem who bought the loan off black horse and wecate now dealing with them .. we have paid regular ammounts when we were back in work but we are struggling atm the balance does not seeem to budge we really dont no what to do any advice would be really appreciated they once said unles we make regular paymenys court action would start and they asked us to seek help from citizens advice please help
    Originally posted by johngill03
    Needs a separate thread - your situation is very different from the thread that you've bolted this onto.
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