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    • Abbicarbs
    • By Abbicarbs 14th Apr 19, 7:20 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Abbicarbs
    Thanks for this. My solicitor is an expensive conveying solicitor who have many sites in the north I thought that this wouldn’t be a problem for them. They are saying elements of the property are freehold and some are leasehold so I presume the paper documents will need to be ordered on the bit that’s leasehold? Any questions I can ask them to make sense of this?

    Thanks for your help
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 14th Apr 19, 8:49 AM
    • 3,138 Posts
    • 2,830 Thanks
    da_rule
    Thanks for this. My solicitor is an expensive conveying solicitor who have many sites in the north I thought that this wouldn’t be a problem for them. They are saying elements of the property are freehold and some are leasehold so I presume the paper documents will need to be ordered on the bit that’s leasehold? Any questions I can ask them to make sense of this?

    Thanks for your help
    Originally posted by Abbicarbs
    I think you just need a better explanation from them. In your first post you said some parts were registered and some were unregistered. Now you’re saying some parts are freehold and some parts are leasehold.

    What exactly are you buying, is it really a mix a registered and unregistered freehold and leasehold? As that could take some time to unpick.
    • Tiglet2
    • By Tiglet2 14th Apr 19, 10:05 AM
    • 326 Posts
    • 300 Thanks
    Tiglet2
    DelphiniumBlue It does sound as though your father and stepmother originally bought the property as Tenants in Common or, alternatively, your stepmother owned the property but decided to transfer some equity to your father (Tax/IHT/CGT reasons?) by adding him to the title. On your stepmother's death her Will would give her % portion to her son (your stepbrother). There was probably a stipulation in your stepmother's Will that your father had a right to reside in the property until his death. Any clauses regarding maintenance of the property would be in the Will rather than in the Deed of Trust. Can you obtain a copy of that Will from public records? Your father's portion was still in his ownership (to be left to the beneficiaries named in his Will on his death).

    Does the title contain a restriction along the lines of “No disposition by a sole proprietor...”? If it does contain a restriction such as this, then the property was owned as Tenants in Common. Unfortunately, without a copy of the Deed of Trust, it is impossible to know what percentages the Tenants in Common was held.

    If there is no restriction on the title, the property was owned as Joint Tenants and then the property would pass to the remaining registered proprietor, i.e. stepbrother. You could enquire of the Land Registry if they do still have a copy of the Transfer document (TR1), which would show the percentage split of the Tenants in Common. Another way might be for the executor to contact the solicitor who your father and stepmother used when they purchased the property to see if they still have any paperwork, though of course they may not have any information going back as far as 2004.

    I really don't think the stepbrother can claim several thousands of pounds for maintenance without providing a copy of the Deed of Trust to the executor or your solicitor and to be honest I fail to see how the stepbrother can sell without producing the Deed and obtaining the signature of the executor of your father's estate on the transfer documents.
    • Abbicarbs
    • By Abbicarbs 14th Apr 19, 1:18 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Abbicarbs
    Thanks Da Rule

    Looking back on my emails now it’s defiantly about some parts being registered and some not. She says

    “this particular matter is slightly complicated because of the registered and unregistered elements so I need to be sure all is in order so that I don’t have any issues with post completion registration formalities” then goes on to say that the land registry may have to order files because of the age of the house and the copies aren’t held electronically which is a presume is the registered piece of land.

    I wana know how long it’s going to take to get the paper copies and if it’s going to be a while can we expedite due to the house we are in being unsuitable for my disabled son?

    Thanks
    ACB
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 14th Apr 19, 1:47 PM
    • 3,138 Posts
    • 2,830 Thanks
    da_rule
    I’ve rarely had to wait longer than a week for documents from the Land Registry (assuming your solicitor has access to the portal and isn’t making paper applications).
  • Land Registry
    Hello, I recently found out that my father, who died in December 2017, has his name on the Official Registry of Title for a property I had no knowledge that he owned. All I knew was, after my step mother died in 1995, the house was left to my stepbrother and my father was allowed to continue living in the property for as long as he needed to. The stepbrother put the house up for sale after my father's death. Last month, I checked the Land Registry to see if the ownership had changed to find out if the house had been sold. I was surprised to find that the proprietors are listed as my father and his stepson on the deeds. I then contacted the Estate Agent who said the property had been sold, so I do not understand why their names were still on the Deeds at the Land Registry. Could this be because the new owner, assuming there is one, has not had the Deeds updated yet? I applied for an Official Copy of the register of title and it still lists my father and stepson as owners on 20 March 2019! Also, I note my father's name was added to the Title in 2004. My father did not tell me about this, I knew nothing until last month. My father was living in, and looking after, the property while his stepson lived in a house elsewhere, and always insisted the house was not his. Please can you tell me why someone, in my father's situation, would have their name added to the property Deeds?
    Originally posted by Delphinium Blue
    Whilst the registered details and forms/deeds submitted may help in some respects they are not going to answer all your Qs and may simply create more.

    The will(s) and Deed of Trust are more likely to orovide Answers although as others have posted the stepbrother may be the only one who knows what happened and why.

    Families/beneficiaries deal with these things in a variety of ways so when your stepmother died for whatever reason(s) the property was transferred. The register refers to the legal ownership though and the interests you are really referring to now are in the beneficial ownerships so again the will(s)/Deed of trust are if greater importance.

    If the property has been sold in recent weeks then the purchaser may have yet to apply to register it. I'd suggest setting up a Property Alert so you are notified when an application is made although it won't provide any answers but at least you know. And if it has been sold then any beneficial interest you have could then be in the proceeds of sale?

    Tiglet2 refers to TIC and JTs and the registered details. But a lack if a (form A) restriction does not mean they were JTs for example. Their wills or Deed of Trust may have made them so but that does not mean that a form A restriction was registered or that any % shares stipulated in any registration.

    It woukd be interesting to know what was and is registered though as if he has sold it and there was a form A restriction how did he get round it? Do you have the title number?
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    Thanks Da Rule

    Looking back on my emails now it’s defiantly about some parts being registered and some not. She says

    “this particular matter is slightly complicated because of the registered and unregistered elements so I need to be sure all is in order so that I don’t have any issues with post completion registration formalities” then goes on to say that the land registry may have to order files because of the age of the house and the copies aren’t held electronically which is a presume is the registered piece of land.

    I wana know how long it’s going to take to get the paper copies and if it’s going to be a while can we expedite due to the house we are in being unsuitable for my disabled son?

    Thanks
    ACB
    Originally posted by Abbicarbs
    Unfortunately there's insufficient detail to offer any realistic timescales here. It reads as if they have made enquiries only and if that means we need to check paper files then that only adds a few days to any delay in responding.

    If there's an unregistered part then it's all a Q of whether the seller has title to it so if they are enquiringly if us it could be that they are claiming it should have been included as registered but wasn't. However your mention of FH and LH may muddy that point and mean it's something else entirely.

    The issues though are pre-completion though so I imagine your conveyancer is trying to get you to completing rather than having to say to them 'you sort it and then we'll complete' as if that happens then there will be an extra delay. You can only expedite an application to register and you don't have that yet.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • I_Smell_Like_Beef
    • By I_Smell_Like_Beef 16th Apr 19, 2:33 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    I_Smell_Like_Beef
    Adverse Possession Application
    Hi,

    We are currently buying a house and are waiting for an adverse possession application to be completed. The application was submitted in January and we were told in February by our solicitor that the Land Registry had replied to the Seller and their solicitor with some requisitions (we have not been told what these are). Unfortunately, our solicitor cannot update us any further and furthermore, we do not know if the application has been expedited. Our second mortgage offer runs out at the end of June so we’re starting to get a bit worried that we won’t complete before then (we first had our offer accepted in May last year).

    Is there any way we can find out about the application’s progression, whether it has been expedited and what the likely outcome will be?

    Also what are the normal timescales for these sorts of applications?

    Many thanks
  • Land Registry
    Hi,

    We are currently buying a house and are waiting for an adverse possession application to be completed. The application was submitted in January and we were told in February by our solicitor that the Land Registry had replied to the Seller and their solicitor with some requisitions (we have not been told what these are). Unfortunately, our solicitor cannot update us any further and furthermore, we do not know if the application has been expedited. Our second mortgage offer runs out at the end of June so we’re starting to get a bit worried that we won’t complete before then (we first had our offer accepted in May last year).

    Is there any way we can find out about the application’s progression, whether it has been expedited and what the likely outcome will be?

    Also what are the normal timescales for these sorts of applications?

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by I_Smell_Like_Beef
    What's the provisional title number?
    If requisitions have been raised and as yet not replied to then the timescale is in the lodging solicitor's hands
    If it is an adverse possession then we would normally need to carry out a site inspection/survey
    And potentially made wider checks including contacting neighbouring or affected property owners
    Such decisions are not made until the previous step has been reached and passed and each stage, IF the application has been expedited, is normally completed within a 10 working day period.
    So if you are at stage 1 and requisitions have been raised there is still potentially some way to go.
    Expedition helps but it does not negate the need for a site visit or the wider checks as mentioned.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • I_Smell_Like_Beef
    • By I_Smell_Like_Beef 17th Apr 19, 11:16 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    I_Smell_Like_Beef
    Adverse Possession Application
    Thanks for your reply. The current title plan of the property is CU310642. This is the title plan that was granted last year to initially register the house for our purchase but does not include the land that the seller has submitted the current adverse possession application for. Is this what you meant by provisional title number? Or will the seller have been given a provisional title number when she submitted the application for adverse possession?

    Thanks,
  • Land Registry
    Thanks for your reply. The current title plan of the property is CU310642. This is the title plan that was granted last year to initially register the house for our purchase but does not include the land that the seller has submitted the current adverse possession application for. Is this what you meant by provisional title number? Or will the seller have been given a provisional title number when she submitted the application for adverse possession?

    Thanks,
    Originally posted by I_Smell_Like_Beef
    It's not the provisional title they will have been given on receipt of their application. But it does enable me to search for details.

    The provisional title is CU313062 and that application has been expedited and is currently ongoing with communications between ourselves and the lodging solicitor.
    So it has yet to pass the consideration stages so you'll need to rely on the solicitor (and your own legal advice) for the specific details involved
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • JJA80
    • By JJA80 19th Apr 19, 6:21 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    JJA80
    Land Registry, Adverse Possession
    My house went under offer on 17 October but to my surprise and dismay my front garden was found to be unregistered in the searches. My buyer’s mortgage provider required the land to be registered by Land Registry granting Adverse Possession. It took time to get all the necessary land searches, plans and declarations for my solicitor to apply for this on 11 February. We have supplied all the necessary declarations and plans, paid for the application and OS survey which has been done and received by Land Registry. The two adjoining neighbours immediately sent their approval of my claim which in any case expired for objections on 15 April. I spoke to a very pleasant and helpful lady at Land Registry on 18 April and she confirmed that they had all the necessary documentation but she was unable to tell me when, or even if, the application would be approved, but she thought it would be some weeks. There is a chain of 5 behind me who have been waiting patiently for my buyer to be able to proceed but one of them is now threatening to pull out. I am 81 years old and risk losing my purchase of the last suitable house available locally in sheltered accommodation. I was advised to get my solicitor to expedite the application because of my need to secure the accommodation I now need. I appreciate how busy Land Registry is but is there any way the necessary approval can be speeded up so I don’t loose my buyer and the house I’ve waited for?
    Last edited by JJA80; 19-04-2019 at 6:23 PM. Reason: Typing error
  • Land Registry
    My house went under offer on 17 October but to my surprise and dismay my front garden was found to be unregistered in the searches. My buyer’s mortgage provider required the land to be registered by Land Registry granting Adverse Possession. It took time to get all the necessary land searches, plans and declarations for my solicitor to apply for this on 11 February. We have supplied all the necessary declarations and plans, paid for the application and OS survey which has been done and received by Land Registry. The two adjoining neighbours immediately sent their approval of my claim which in any case expired for objections on 15 April. I spoke to a very pleasant and helpful lady at Land Registry on 18 April and she confirmed that they had all the necessary documentation but she was unable to tell me when, or even if, the application would be approved, but she thought it would be some weeks. There is a chain of 5 behind me who have been waiting patiently for my buyer to be able to proceed but one of them is now threatening to pull out. I am 81 years old and risk losing my purchase of the last suitable house available locally in sheltered accommodation. I was advised to get my solicitor to expedite the application because of my need to secure the accommodation I now need. I appreciate how busy Land Registry is but is there any way the necessary approval can be speeded up so I don’t loose my buyer and the house I’ve waited for?
    Originally posted by JJA80
    That's the right thing to do, ask your solicitor to submit evidence of the confirmed purchase and a request to expedite

    The only part that throws me is that you say you spoke to us and that some of the wider checks we do (no objections by....) have been done. So why some weeks to go?

    What's the title number please?
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • JJA80
    • By JJA80 20th Apr 19, 3:59 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    JJA80
    Land Registry, Adverse possession
    The title number is TT93123. Thank you for response on a Bank Holiday weekend.
    • JJA80
    • By JJA80 23rd Apr 19, 10:48 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    JJA80
    Land Registry, Adverse Possession
    From JJA80. I’m not sure if I posted correctly. The Title number is TT93123. LR’s office use only number reference is VA16BC3 if that helps. Do you need any more information from me?
    Thank you.
  • Land Registry
    From JJA80. I’m not sure if I posted correctly. The Title number is TT93123. LR’s office use only number reference is VA16BC3 if that helps. Do you need any more information from me?
    Thank you.
    Originally posted by JJA80
    Many thanks but I have the info I need. Just waiting for a reply from the processing office as to what is happening
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    Many thanks but I have the info I need. Just waiting for a reply from the processing office as to what is happening
    Originally posted by Land Registry
    The application is currently with one of our lawyers for further consideration. I'll post again when I have anything more to share
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • Sally_Forth
    • By Sally_Forth 23rd Apr 19, 4:56 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Sally_Forth
    From JJA80. I’m not sure if I posted correctly. The Title number is TT93123. LR’s office use only number reference is VA16BC3 if that helps. Do you need any more information from me?
    Thank you.
    Originally posted by JJA80
    It sounds like there were more notices sent than just your 2 neighbours, as LR has said it's with lawyers. That probably means someone else has objected to the adverse possession.
    • JJA80
    • By JJA80 23rd Apr 19, 10:53 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    JJA80
    I know the history back to pre 1967 so it seems unlikely but who knows.
    • babyblade41
    • By babyblade41 24th Apr 19, 6:12 AM
    • 592 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    babyblade41
    It sounds like there were more notices sent than just your 2 neighbours, as LR has said it's with lawyers. That probably means someone else has objected to the adverse possession.
    Originally posted by Sally_Forth
    It's not always the case.. I went through adverse possession a few months ago , well my vendor did.

    When notices are sent out they are sent to who ever the land may affect and the clock ticks for 15 days

    The complex nature of adverse possession was handled by case workers at the beginning but then it passed onto lawyers to check the legalities .

    Ours was registered well before the 15 days as the notices must have been responded to with no objection rather than ignored
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