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  • Land Registry
    Afternoon,

    We have recently sold our property but our buyers' solicitors want the ground rent charge on our deeds to be redeemed before we can complete.

    The ground rent charge dates back to 1968 and it has never been collected nor have we ever been contacted about it, neither have the previous owners (we've owned the house for 14 years and our predecessors were here for 5 years).

    Our solicitors have begun the redemption process and have contacted a man who we believe is the ower of the ground rent, but as yet we haven't had a response and for all we know he may no longer be at the address we have, or even still be living.

    I know every case is different but could anyone advise on how long a redemption could take?
    Or the time scale of an extinguishment of the charge if the owner of the ground rent can't be traced?

    Is there a rough best case and worst case scenario in terms of timescale?

    We have offered on another property and also have a time limit of 12 weeks on our mortgage offer so the time it takes to get this resolved has a big impact on other decisions.

    Many thanks in advance for any helpful advice.
    Originally posted by jostini
    I'm assuming it's a renctcharge although you also mention ground rent

    There's no real best case as you need a redemption certificate. As you know who the owner is it may be worth looking at getting a state redemption - your solicitor will be aware of what's needed but maybe that's not an option

    In light if the circumstances posted have you considered indemnity insurance?
    The payments haven't been made for some time so trying to trace the owner seems a fruitless task and could pose problems if you then consider trying to get insurance

    Payments are often limite to 6 years back payment. And they extinguish automatically in 2037 but appreciate that's no help now
    Last edited by Land Registry; 26-07-2018 at 5:46 PM.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • jostini
    • By jostini 26th Jul 18, 6:27 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    jostini
    Thank you for your response.

    We only have the name and address of the rent charge owner that is on the deeds so we don't actually know if they are still contactable.

    Could you tell me what a state redemption is? and how long does it normally take to get one?

    Also, can you explain briefly how indemnity insurance would be useful?

    Thank you for your help thus far
    Jostini
  • Land Registry
    Thank you for your response.

    We only have the name and address of the rent charge owner that is on the deeds so we don't actually know if they are still contactable.

    Could you tell me what a state redemption is? and how long does it normally take to get one?

    Also, can you explain briefly how indemnity insurance would be useful?

    Thank you for your help thus far
    Originally posted by jostini
    Follow the link provided and read the advice given

    Indemnity insurance woukd be taken against them coming forward and claiming 6 years worth of the monies

    You do need to be speaking to your solicitor about this
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • shardill
    • By shardill 29th Jul 18, 9:23 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    shardill
    Morning, the property I already interested has folowing in the charges register:

    "(11.08.1988) A conveyance of the land in this title and other land dated 1 December 1926 made between (1) Mr A and (2) Mr B contains restricted covenants but neither the original deed nor a certified copy or examined abstract thereof was produced on first registration "

    Can you please advise what effect this can have in future? Or should I avoid buying this property.
  • Land Registry
    Morning, the property I already interested has folowing in the charges register:

    "(11.08.1988) A conveyance of the land in this title and other land dated 1 December 1926 made between (1) Mr A and (2) Mr B contains restricted covenants but neither the original deed nor a certified copy or examined abstract thereof was produced on first registration "

    Can you please advise what effect this can have in future? Or should I avoid buying this property.
    Originally posted by shardill
    Restrictive covenants are imposed for the benefit of land so best case scenario is that it has no effect as no landowner ever comes forward to produce the deed/covenants and demonstrate that their land has the benefit and you have breached the covenants.

    Worse case scenario is that they do.

    The entry is known as a protective one as when the land was first registered the deeds submitted referred to this Conveyance but that's all. As it was not produced we have no other details.

    Your conveyancer would have to advise you on whether it is a deal breaker re the purchase. In my experience most would advise you as to the risk as mentioned and whether you can/should insure against that risk through an indemnity policy
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • G_M
    • By G_M 30th Jul 18, 10:13 AM
    • 44,940 Posts
    • 53,556 Thanks
    G_M
    An indemnity insurance is a common solution.


    But be aware that this will not protect you from the covenant, only from the financial consequences of the covenant.


    So if the covenant prohibits keeping pigs in the garden, and you wish to start a pig small-holding in the garden (and have planning consent to do so - this is a separate issue), then if the neighbour produces proof that they are the beneficiary of the covenant and enforces it, your insurance won't help you to start up your small-holding, but might cover your financial loss resulting from your inability to run your business. (though I suspect you might still have a fight making a claim!)
    • Edward_Nygma
    • By Edward_Nygma 31st Jul 18, 11:56 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Edward_Nygma
    Proprietorship Register query (title absolute)
    Hello,

    I have an urgent query regarding my mum's property. She moved recently and my brother who was a guarantor and who has basically been a rent free bill free tennant since the 90's (yep she cooks and washes for him too!). He has filled out her moving forms and unbeknownst to her, has managed to get his name on the registry. My goodness.

    My question is, my mum is no longer the first name; :PROPRIETOR ....'John' and 'mum'. Is there any significance in the name ordering? Why is his name first?

    And also, when it comes to her death will he get full rights to the whole property?

    I think there is a will, but can a will decide that 1/2 of the property goes to me the second 'non-freeloading' child? can a Will override so my mum's half does not fall into his hands?

    We'll have to figure out how he managed to just fill out some paperwork and actually get on the deeds– he's never made any mortgage or deposit payment...just a !!!!!!!!!! ...
    Help!
    Thanks!
  • Land Registry
    Hello,

    I have an urgent query regarding my mum's property. She moved recently and my brother who was a guarantor and who has basically been a rent free bill free tennant since the 90's (yep she cooks and washes for him too!). He has filled out her moving forms and unbeknownst to her, has managed to get his name on the registry. My goodness.

    My question is, my mum is no longer the first name; :PROPRIETOR ....'John' and 'mum'. Is there any significance in the name ordering? Why is his name first?

    And also, when it comes to her death will he get full rights to the whole property?

    I think there is a will, but can a will decide that 1/2 of the property goes to me the second 'non-freeloading' child? can a Will override so my mum's half does not fall into his hands?

    We'll have to figure out how he managed to just fill out some paperwork and actually get on the deeds– he's never made any mortgage or deposit payment...just a !!!!!!!!!! ...
    Help!
    Thanks!
    Originally posted by Edward_Nygma
    There is no significance in the order of the names - they will have been registered in the order they were referred to in the legal deed presumably submitted to update the register.

    The normal way a title is updated is by the existing registered owner transferring to joint names

    The legal ownership will pass to the surviving joint owner following a death but wills are an important part in protecting the deceased's share of the property for example
    I would strongly recommend that you seek legal advice re both what happens next and if you have any concerns over how the update was achieved.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • smegal
    • By smegal 1st Aug 18, 2:44 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    smegal
    Headlease query
    Hello

    I am trying to locate a copy of the head-lease (aka superior lease) which relates to the lease for our individual flat (aka sublease or under lease). I'm hoping to find the detail of how the Service Charge is supposed to be divided across all the different properties on the estate as some are freehold, some have lifts, etc.

    Our Lease Title No is SY551601 and believe the Headless Title No is SY714366 as this is number our conveyancing solicitor was quoting when trying to obtain it from the seller's solicitor, to no avail I'm afraid.

    Is there a way to confirm that is the headlease?
    How do I obtain a copy?

    Thanks for your help.
    Smile and be happy, things can usually get worse!
  • Land Registry
    SY551601 is a freehold title out of which a head lease is granted and registered under SY714366

    You can apply by post for a copy of the head lease. If you don't have the details required then you would need to check the register before applying and you can do that by searching using the title number
    Last edited by Land Registry; 05-08-2018 at 8:28 AM.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • smegal
    • By smegal 1st Aug 18, 4:59 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    smegal
    Thanks for the info.
    Found our Title registry which is SY717082 for our flat.
    Is the head lease SY714366 assigned to a specific property or if not to what?

    Thanks again.
    Smile and be happy, things can usually get worse!
    • Emma2409
    • By Emma2409 2nd Aug 18, 10:22 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Emma2409
    We are purchasing a property and diring title searches it turns out that the seller doesn’t actually own the whole of the garden to the property. The seller’s solicitor initially told our solicitor that it was a simple case of having the ‘the whole of what was left in a title’ to the seller at which point they would send out draft contracts. 3 weeks later we now are told that the owner of the small piece of garden won’t sign a transfer but will sign a letter confirming they won’t object to the transfer of the land under adverse possession- I find that strange- is there any reason they would take that stance? The adverse possession application hasn’t been lodged as yet, on the basis that everything is present and correct how long would it take to transfer the property to our seller so we can finally exchange and complete?
    • niooi
    • By niooi 3rd Aug 18, 12:49 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    niooi
    Hello,

    I have bought and moved into a brand new apartment from Barratt in December 2015 in South-East London. The lease of the property was 999 years with a ground rent of £350 per year.

    Recently, we have received a letter mentioning that the ownership of the land moved to a shell company called "Adriatic Land 8 Ltd". The letter was sent by a company called Homeground Management Ltd. which does not have a great reputation even on this forum but I have to say they did reply to me with a generic email. At least, they have replied.

    Now my concern is with the change of landlord, as I have done some searches, it seems "Adriatic Land # (many incorporated Ltds)" is using a loophole to buy land properties from large builders to increase the ground rent prices and/or propose property owners to buy (or ransom) their freehold. From my existing contract they are not allowed to increase the ground rent until 2022 (4 years to go). I have asked Homeground Management if the intention of "Adriatic Land #8 Ltd" was to increase the ground rent in 2022 and by hope much, but they have not yet responded.

    For more context, please search for an article published by The Guardian by looking for those keywords "the guardian adriatic land".

    My questions to this forum and the Land Registry:
    1 - What are the risks that the ground rent will increase?
    2 - The second question, what are the legal protection(s) against those types of takeovers
    3 - Finally, aren't the UK largest builders complaisant if not actively participating into those schemes?

    Thank you
    Last edited by niooi; 03-08-2018 at 1:00 PM. Reason: Missing elements
    • smegal
    • By smegal 3rd Aug 18, 8:35 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    smegal
    Old Title Register with Lender info
    Is it possible to get a Title Register from a property that I owned around 1997 and would it show the Lender (mortgage) at that time?
    Smile and be happy, things can usually get worse!
  • Land Registry
    Thanks for the info.
    Found our Title registry which is SY717082 for our flat.
    Is the head lease SY714366 assigned to a specific property or if not to what?

    Thanks again.
    Originally posted by smegal
    The Head lease is SY714366 out if which each sub lease is granted
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    We are purchasing a property and diring title searches it turns out that the seller doesn’t actually own the whole of the garden to the property. The seller’s solicitor initially told our solicitor that it was a simple case of having the ‘the whole of what was left in a title’ to the seller at which point they would send out draft contracts. 3 weeks later we now are told that the owner of the small piece of garden won’t sign a transfer but will sign a letter confirming they won’t object to the transfer of the land under adverse possession- I find that strange- is there any reason they would take that stance? The adverse possession application hasn’t been lodged as yet, on the basis that everything is present and correct how long would it take to transfer the property to our seller so we can finally exchange and complete?
    Originally posted by Emma2409
    I assume the neighbour doesn't want the perceived hassle of being directly involved in transferring the land?

    An application for Adv P will take several weeks - if they submitted it and asked us to expedite it then it's going to take a minimum of 8/9 weeks if everything is in order and goes as hoped for

    Any Adv P will require a survey and wider checks so there is always a delay when they are needed. And you can't speed those parts up

    Quickest way is to transfer the part and expedite that. No survey or wider checks normally needed. But again has to be in order.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    Is it possible to get a Title Register from a property that I owned around 1997 and would it show the Lender (mortgage) at that time?
    Originally posted by smegal
    Yes - complete our contact form with details and we'll reply advising what we have and how to apply for copies as appropriate
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Land Registry
    Is it possible to change my name via land registry but keep that change of name totally private so that it's not a matter of public record? I've phoned up but I felt the answer was no.

    How would the name change show up exactly please?
    Originally posted by alexlouise87
    Any change of name would appear on the register. So your new name would be shown. As the register is Open it is not private
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
    • francescotusa
    • By francescotusa 10th Aug 18, 11:04 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    francescotusa
    Land Registry application is blocking my purchase and sale
    Hello all,

    this is Francesco – I have just joined this forum as I believe you guys might be able to help with my question below.

    Long story short:
    I am trying to buy a new built flat that was bought off plan from a guy who is now reselling it to me. This guy completed his purchase with the developer in May 2018, and his solicitor submitted the application for regitration of the leasehold to the Land Registry at the beginning of June. After many issues we are now ready to exchange the contracts to purchase the flat from this guy, but my solicitor will not proceed until the new registration of the leasehold will be completed at the Land Registry.

    I have been calling the Land Registry and they told me that there are more or less 100 applications to be processed before this one – the issue is that as some of them are currently blocked this will also delay the processing of the one related to my purchase. I don't really understand why the process works in this way – I assumed blocked application would be put on hold and others that can be completed would be processed in the meantime.

    I have been advised that the seller' solicitor can expedite the the process. Actually the people from Land Registry told me that this had already been done but still the application is still pending at the moment. The big issue for me is that we have a connected sale and our buyer has been waiting for months now and also has a mortgage offer which is due to expire soon.

    Can you guys please help to clarify how the process works and if there is anything I can in order to speed up the processing of the application I am interested in?

    Thanks very much, your help is highly appreciated!

    Francesco
  • Land Registry
    Can you guys please help to clarify how the process works and if there is anything I can in order to speed up the processing of the application I am interested in?

    Thanks very much, your help is highly appreciated!
    Francesco
    Originally posted by francescotusa
    It reads as if you have a property/title which is being heavily developed with numerous plot sales then resulting from that development
    As plots are sold off the purchaser seeks to register their individual plot sale so you can end up with a long string of applications against that single title. A 100 is unusual but quite possible.

    Any application submitted has a priority over everything that follows. So even when expedited that priority cannot be simply ignored.

    Whilst it is unlikely that any of the prior applications will affect/impact the later plot sales you will often find other applications being submitted that will. That may be the case here especially if the developer was selling off plan so to speak.

    I'm afraid you have done all you can re speeding up the registration process as the application has been expedited.
    The key now is what applications are in front of it and which have a priority - can they be completed and do they affect

    The completing part is largely down to us but will also rely on them being in order, so the conveyancer involved has got it 'right'

    The do they affect part is something your conveyancer can and probably has considered. They may have to consider two main issues on that specific matter namely (1) is your seller's purchase in order and therefore can it be registered and (2) what other applications have priority and will they affect. The second point tends to be the main barrier to proceeding with completion as whilst the other plot sales could very well have no impact other applications may and the risk is seen as being too great. Very much one to discuss with your conveyancer
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
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